USNWR Article Prospective Law Students Should Read

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Lawquacious
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Re: USNWR Article Prospective Law Students Should Read

Postby Lawquacious » Sun Jun 27, 2010 12:36 am

Wow. Didn't see all the racist stuff until after my first post ITT. Agreed about the importance of maintaining some degree of class even in difficult circumstances.

NewLawStudent
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Re: USNWR Article Prospective Law Students Should Read

Postby NewLawStudent » Sun Jun 27, 2010 12:40 am

Lawquacious wrote:This thread reminds me of a T3 grad (the school recently became T2) who when I mentioned I was starting law school went into a rant that lasted about 10 minutes on how horrible law school is and how miserable the practice of law is. The guy had a law job, but he was making about the same as before he went to law school and hates legal work. Also, he had to move away from where he wanted to live for the job. I understand that in his case (and in fact in many cases) law school and law practice ends up being a big disappointment, but that doesn't mean that the frustration that individual has experienced applies to everyone else. I politely listened to him and acknowledged that for him law school has not been a good payoff (at least up the point I last spoke with him). Obviously there is a lot of risk in going to law school ITE, but to use that risk or even negative personal experiences to discourage all others who are planning to study law is too broad of an application. Besides, is the fact that it is a horrible time to go into law really new info?

+1

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Mickey Quicknumbers
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Re: USNWR Article Prospective Law Students Should Read

Postby Mickey Quicknumbers » Sun Jun 27, 2010 12:42 am

TTTGrad wrote:Many kids still don't get the concept of opportunity costs lost as a result of attending law school.

If a college grad is making $40K a year that is $120K lost in wages over 3 years. Add the costs of obtaining a law degree in the NY metro area under this scenario:

Tuition: $48K(Fordham, BLS or Seton Hall) + $25K (COL in NYC)=$73K x 3 years=$219K

If you are paying sticker, your total losses will be around $219K + $10K (bar exam loan) +$120K (lost wages)=$349K
Assuming you even get a half scholarship ($24K a year), you are still wasting $49K a year x 3 =$147K


Add the lost of employment wages to your law school cost and you have lost a combined $267K oh and let's not forget about another $10K for the bar exam loan and your loss is $277K.

Not to mention, the three years of law school are arguably a waste of time as you don't learn any practical skills. Thinking like a lawyer, knowing how to do searches on lexis/westlaw and writing briefs for moot court are not enough skills to hit the ground running and expect a client to pay you.

I have never said don't go to law school. If your dream has been to become a lawyer (because you can argue your way out of a paperbag) or your parents have convinced you that you will be the next Ronald Dworkin, be my guest but when things don't work out for you, don't cry to Congress for a bailout. You have been exposed to the risks and by enrolling in law school and most of you have thumbed your noses at the truth and have decided to act recklessly.

Lastly, you may think you are a loser for being in a dead end job but it beats seeing your parents on youtube complaining about how their pride and joy can't find a job 2 years out of law school and lives at home at the age of 30 something. Would you want this to be your dad 5 years from now?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COFtWCbz ... re=related


You're "opportunity cost" analysis sucks. Granted so do 98% of people who try to do it on this site anyways.

thatsnotmyname
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Re: USNWR Article Prospective Law Students Should Read

Postby thatsnotmyname » Sun Jun 27, 2010 12:58 am

TTTGrad wrote:I have known about a dozen Iranian folks in my life. The common denominator with them was that they tend to exaggerate x 4. So I guess an immigration "notario" ripped you off for $50K, your home in Iran cost $25K, etc. You want to be an immigration lawyer (aka shitlawyer) because of your foreign background? Guess what iron sheik? Many foreigners have beat you to the punch. In Minnesota for example, there are hundreds of Somali born lawyers doing asylum cases for $500 a pop. In NY, there are thousands of Indian background attorneys doing sham marriage petitions for $1K a pop. In California, there are tens of thousands of Latino background attorneys doing immigration cases for next to nothing. Go ahead and drop six figures to go to law school, obtain a watered down degree and join the growing legion of shitlawyers who everyday are undercutting themselves more and more. I bet in 6 years, downtown Beirut will seem like shangri la to you compared to being a shitlawyer in America.


I'm not really aware of how many clients these guys are getting every year... but to me if they are making $500-$1,000 off of every client that sounds pretty decent... Do talk more about small scale immigration law as this has become a field of interest to me recently...

NewLawStudent
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Re: USNWR Article Prospective Law Students Should Read

Postby NewLawStudent » Sun Jun 27, 2010 1:17 am

Dear 'thatsnotmyname',
The racist TTTGrad turned my point around completely. My point was not that I'll necessarily become an immigration lawyer. However, since you've mentioned immigration law, I know several immigration lawyers in California, of different backgrounds, all of whom are very respected and successful. Some of them work for small and medium-sized law firms, and some of the others go solo. Honestly, I don't know how much money they make, but I'm pretty sure that all of them are doing very well. Regardless of what pessimist jerks such as this loser TTTGrad tell you, I believe if you work hard in law school and develop your networking skills, there are always good opportunities for you.
Good luck!

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savagedm
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Re: USNWR Article Prospective Law Students Should Read

Postby savagedm » Sun Jun 27, 2010 1:56 am

Image

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PDaddy
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Re: USNWR Article Prospective Law Students Should Read

Postby PDaddy » Sun Jun 27, 2010 2:37 am

All any of this means is that more students should consider double-majoring at the grad level and/or consider using their legal degrees in fields outside of the traditional ones. People need to think outside of the box and consider going into consulting, PR, entertainment, alternative education fields, entreprenuership, etc. And Wall Street still needs lawyers to help clean up the mess created by the crooks during the last two decades.

Some people believe that a law degree's value is more rooted in myth than reality. I am not one of them. Lawyers are capable of doing more than just working at firms or teaching at universities. And other fields need legal expertise. As long as law exists lawyers will be needed, and law permeates every aspect of our daily existence(s). People just need to think and act creatively about the way in which lawyers make their societal contributions. I am not scared for one simple reason: law school owes me the education I pay for and nothing else. That's the attitude I am taking with me. A law degree is still a valuable and well respected commodity.

Law firm life is miserable. I am working closely with lawyers on a case in which I have spent the last two months doing doc review...in opposing counsel's office. Opposing counsel is a boutique firm with about 20 lawyers, and none of them looks happy. They bring their dogs to work, and the highlight of their days appear to be their lunchtime walks with those dogs. They are a miserable bunch of people. I have also worked closely with a BigLaw firm in my town, and there are no smiles from these six-figure earning superstars either. Most of the firm's top draft picks (from Penn, Georgetown, etc) have lost their jobs over the past five years, and the mainstays look very unhappy. Several of the firm's members drink daily. There is more to life than all of that. I say create your own niche. Firm life is not what it's cracked up to be anyways.

NewLawStudent
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Re: USNWR Article Prospective Law Students Should Read

Postby NewLawStudent » Sun Jun 27, 2010 3:21 am

PDaddy wrote:All any of this means is that more students should consider double-majoring at the grad level and/or consider using their legal degrees in fields outside of the traditional ones. People need to think outside of the box and consider going into consulting, PR, entertainment, alternative education fields, entreprenuership, etc. And Wall Street still needs lawyers to help clean up the mess created by the crooks during the last two decades.

Some people believe that a law degree's value is more rooted in myth than reality. I am not one of them. Lawyers are capable of doing more than just working at firms or teaching at universities. And other fields need legal expertise. As long as law exists lawyers will be needed, and law permeates every aspect of our daily existence(s). People just need to think and act creatively about the way in which lawyers make their societal contributions. I am not scared for one simple reason: law school owes me the education I pay for and nothing else. That's the attitude I am taking with me. A law degree is still a valuable and well respected commodity.

Law firm life is miserable. I am working closely with lawyers on a case in which I have spent the last two months doing doc review...in opposing counsel's office. Opposing counsel is a boutique firm with about 20 lawyers, and none of them looks happy. They bring their dogs to work, and the highlight of their days appear to be their lunchtime walks with those dogs. They are a miserable bunch of people. I have also worked closely with a BigLaw firm in my town, and there are no smiles from these six-figure earning superstars either. Most of the firm's top draft picks (from Penn, Georgetown, etc) have lost their jobs over the past five years, and the mainstays look very unhappy. Several of the firm's members drink daily. There is more to life than all of that. I say create your own niche. Firm life is not what it's cracked up to be anyways.

I agree 100%.

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YCrevolution
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Re: USNWR Article Prospective Law Students Should Read

Postby YCrevolution » Sun Jun 27, 2010 2:32 pm

..

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Mr. Matlock
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Re: USNWR Article Prospective Law Students Should Read

Postby Mr. Matlock » Sun Jun 27, 2010 2:33 pm

YCrevolution wrote:Why can't we just all get along?

In my defense, there was a partial lunar eclipse last night.

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YCrevolution
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Re: USNWR Article Prospective Law Students Should Read

Postby YCrevolution » Sun Jun 27, 2010 2:34 pm

..

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savagedm
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Re: USNWR Article Prospective Law Students Should Read

Postby savagedm » Sun Jun 27, 2010 4:12 pm

YCrevolution wrote:
Mr. Matlock wrote:
YCrevolution wrote:Why can't we just all get along?

In my defense, there was a partial lunar eclipse last night.

This isn't Nightfall. :wink:

That said, one user in this thread will now have get along all alone....


Do I smell the banstick?

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YCrevolution
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Re: USNWR Article Prospective Law Students Should Read

Postby YCrevolution » Sun Jun 27, 2010 4:15 pm

..

09042014
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Re: USNWR Article Prospective Law Students Should Read

Postby 09042014 » Sun Jun 27, 2010 4:17 pm

YCrevolution wrote:
savagedm wrote:
YCrevolution wrote:
Mr. Matlock wrote:In my defense, there was a partial lunar eclipse last night.

This isn't Nightfall. :wink:

That said, one user in this thread will now have get along all alone....


Do I smell the banstick?

Just the sweet afterscent.


Ban Saber?

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savagedm
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Re: USNWR Article Prospective Law Students Should Read

Postby savagedm » Sun Jun 27, 2010 4:18 pm

Desert Fox wrote:Ban Saber?


mmmm burned flesh

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YCrevolution
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Re: USNWR Article Prospective Law Students Should Read

Postby YCrevolution » Sun Jun 27, 2010 4:19 pm

..




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