Investment Banker Needs Law school advice, 158

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seasurf
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Investment Banker Needs Law school advice, 158

Postby seasurf » Thu Jun 24, 2010 8:20 pm

Here is my deal. I am at a top tier investment bank in an year IBK analyst program. I am about the embark on my third year, but chances are, I am not going to be a top 20% performer. This means, I will have to get my MBA, which the company will pay for, or leave the company. I always wanted to go to law school and took the LSAT three times. I have one cancel, a 156 and 158. I have to wait until Sept of 2011 to retake (I think). I regret not studying as much as many people on this forum have (working over 100 hour weeks and on weekends made it very difficult). Plus, its kinda annoying how I got a 1450 on SATs and a 670 on GMATS without studying and cannot get a competitive lsat score when I actually studied a little bit.

I have a 3.91 undergraduate GPA (Finance, Accounting, and Political Science triple major). I really do not want to go for an MBA because I think it will pretty much be the same as my undergrad (I went to a top 10 UG business school). Plus, I REALLY REALLY REALLY hate investment banking. I want to do securities law and go to law school the following year.

I have saved up enough money to pay for atleast 85% of my law school education and I do not mind taking 30k in debt. I want to stay in New York City. Now I want to know if anyone thinks I have a good shot at Cardozo? I know its not top tier, but I do not want to wait to go to law school. What about Brooklyn? Are the education and career prospects from either of these schools as bad as the people of TLS make it sound?

dukelawguy144
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Re: Investment Banker Needs Law school advice, 158

Postby dukelawguy144 » Thu Jun 24, 2010 8:27 pm

with your gpa im sure you can get into brooklyn. I dont know about Cardozo. If you are ballin out and making a ridiculous amount of money that you can pay for your entire law school, I do not know why you would want to settle for a lower tier law school. If you study your ass off the lsat, you prob could get into a fordham columbia or nyu. Retake bro

Woozy
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Re: Investment Banker Needs Law school advice, 158

Postby Woozy » Thu Jun 24, 2010 8:32 pm

You, an investment banker, should probably not go to law school. Go get an MBA.


Or at least wait a while and retake. A 3.9 is a terrible thing to waste.

blsingindisguise
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Re: Investment Banker Needs Law school advice, 158

Postby blsingindisguise » Thu Jun 24, 2010 8:35 pm

With your SAT and grades you should be capable of a much better LSAT. Please study your ass off and retake.

Securities law is going to be tough to grab from the kind of school you're going to get into with those numbers. Plus even if you get into Cardozo or BLS you're probably going to have to take on heavy debt, whereas even a 165 with that GPA would probably get you a huge scholarship.

seasurf
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Re: Investment Banker Needs Law school advice, 158

Postby seasurf » Thu Jun 24, 2010 8:36 pm

Woozy wrote:You, an investment banker, should probably not go to law school. e.


Why do you say that? Working as an I banker makes you understand the world of underwriting and securities regulation very well and I am surprised not many investment bankers go to law school. Also, I work in public finance division, so I am not part of the division that people hate (CDO's CMOS)

thatsnotmyname
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Re: Investment Banker Needs Law school advice, 158

Postby thatsnotmyname » Thu Jun 24, 2010 8:40 pm

I have one cancel, a 156 and 158. I have to wait until Sept of 2011 to retake (I think).


Does the cancel actually count as your third attempt? Can anyone confirm or deny for sure?

Either way, if I were you, I would retake. Or get the MBA and stay in the business field. You sound like you really hate your current job. Why don't you just move to a different job in the business field? I mean if you go to Cardozo, you'll likely be taking a HUGE pay cut anyways, so why not just take a pay cut now and try to find a job you like that may pay less.

APimpNamedSlickback
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x

Postby APimpNamedSlickback » Thu Jun 24, 2010 8:40 pm

x
Last edited by APimpNamedSlickback on Fri Jul 30, 2010 12:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

dukelawguy144
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Re: Investment Banker Needs Law school advice, 158

Postby dukelawguy144 » Thu Jun 24, 2010 8:43 pm

APimpNamedSlickback wrote:no one that does legit banking calls it "i banking." also, i refuse to believe that a decent analyst at a bulge bracket couldnt break a 163. i mean, c'mon.

stop giving finance kids a bad name and stop posting. tyia.


DId not think about that before but

+1

I dont work as an investment banker but work in finance, and I think you are right that any of those guys in the investment banking divisions could break atleast a 160 in their sleep
Last edited by dukelawguy144 on Thu Jun 24, 2010 8:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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MURPH
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Re: Investment Banker Needs Law school advice, 158

Postby MURPH » Thu Jun 24, 2010 8:44 pm

You are listed as "consider" on law school predictor if you apply ED to Cardoza. A three point increase in LSAT puts you in a whole new ballpark. You are a strong consider at Cordozo and a few T30 schools.

If you study four hours per day for 5-6 days per week for three months you could move up to a 166- a ten point increase from your first time. I would start training now. Each morning when you are drinking your morning coffee do a logic game. Millions of people do crossword puzzles and other mental games for fun. You should too. MIx in some other question types from time to time. Over the course of a year build your comfort with the test. Take a Testmasters, Blueprint or Powerscore course. Read the powerscore Bibles. By next spring you should be doing LSAT PTs four hours per day 5 - 6 days per week.

Get a school to sponsor you to take a fourth test. You're undergrad pre-law advisor can help or maybe Cardozo's adcom's if you tell them you are applying ED. Then plan to retake in June 2011. Get your PS and LORs done. Get you application in as early as possible- September 1st. Apply ED to increase your chances at your dream school.

That is another year of doing work you hate but it is the best plan to maximize your chances of admission.

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TheTopBloke
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Re: Investment Banker Needs Law school advice, 158

Postby TheTopBloke » Thu Jun 24, 2010 8:47 pm

seasurf wrote:Here is my deal. I am at a top tier investment bank in an year IBK analyst program. I am about the embark on my third year, but chances are, I am not going to be a top 20% performer. This means, I will have to get my MBA, which the company will pay for, or leave the company. I always wanted to go to law school and took the LSAT three times. I have one cancel, a 156 and 158. I have to wait until Sept of 2011 to retake (I think). I regret not studying as much as many people on this forum have (working over 100 hour weeks and on weekends made it very difficult). Plus, its kinda annoying how I got a 1450 on SATs and a 670 on GMATS without studying and cannot get a competitive lsat score when I actually studied a little bit.

I have a 3.91 undergraduate GPA (Finance, Accounting, and Political Science triple major). I really do not want to go for an MBA because I think it will pretty much be the same as my undergrad (I went to a top 10 UG business school). Plus, I REALLY REALLY REALLY hate investment banking. I want to do securities law and go to law school the following year.

I have saved up enough money to pay for atleast 85% of my law school education and I do not mind taking 30k in debt. I want to stay in New York City. Now I want to know if anyone thinks I have a good shot at Cardozo? I know its not top tier, but I do not want to wait to go to law school. What about Brooklyn? Are the education and career prospects from either of these schools as bad as the people of TLS make it sound?


AAGGHH!!!! You hate investment banking but you want to do securities law? WTF?

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let/them/eat/cake
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Re: Investment Banker Needs Law school advice, 158

Postby let/them/eat/cake » Thu Jun 24, 2010 8:51 pm

APimpNamedSlickback wrote:no one that does legit banking calls it "i banking." also, i refuse to believe that a decent analyst at a bulge bracket couldnt break a 163. i mean, c'mon.

stop giving finance kids a bad name and stop posting. tyia.


perfect. although i was really hoping no one in the thread had commented on this yet. "I bankers with 158s? no wonder we are in the mess we're in." something along those lines.

that's prob the most prickish thing i've said on these boards.

seasurf
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Re: Investment Banker Needs Law school advice, 158

Postby seasurf » Thu Jun 24, 2010 9:00 pm

let/them/eat/cake wrote:
APimpNamedSlickback wrote:no one that does legit banking calls it "i banking." also, i refuse to believe that a decent analyst at a bulge bracket couldnt break a 163. i mean, c'mon.

stop giving finance kids a bad name and stop posting. tyia.


perfect. although i was really hoping no one in the thread had commented on this yet. "I bankers with 158s? no wonder we are in the mess we're in." something along those lines.

that's prob the most prickish thing i've said on these boards.


The lsat is not the most important measure of intelligence. I graduated top 5% of my class from a respected business school and scored the top 5% on my SATS. The LSAT is one test, and like I said, I did not study that much (took only 6 practice exams and no prep course)

Also, I want to point out that most people on these forums make LSAT studying their entire life. I did not. I actually worked my ass off at my job and did not have the time or energy to study on the few nights/weekends I had off. Therefore, making comments stating that ibankers are not very smart because they cannot get a 163 is not a very good argument because the LSAT is, most of the time, a measure of how much time you have to study.

Also, I am asking for some serious advice about law school options in New York. If you dont believe my situation or think that my situation indicates that analysts are dumb, then screw off.
Last edited by seasurf on Thu Jun 24, 2010 9:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

dukelawguy144
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Re: Investment Banker Needs Law school advice, 158

Postby dukelawguy144 » Thu Jun 24, 2010 9:04 pm

seasurf wrote:
let/them/eat/cake wrote:
APimpNamedSlickback wrote:no one that does legit banking calls it "i banking." also, i refuse to believe that a decent analyst at a bulge bracket couldnt break a 163. i mean, c'mon.

stop giving finance kids a bad name and stop posting. tyia.


perfect. although i was really hoping no one in the thread had commented on this yet. "I bankers with 158s? no wonder we are in the mess we're in." something along those lines.

that's prob the most prickish thing i've said on these boards.


The lsat is not the most important measure of intelligence. I graduated top 5% of my class from a respected business school and scored the top 5% on my SATS. The LSAT is one test, and like I said, I did not study that much (took only 6 practice exams and no prep course)

Also, I am asking for some serious advice about law school options in New York. If you dont believe my situation or think that my situation indicates that analysts are dumb, then screw off.


What company do you work for? I bet your full of Sh*t. Also, this is pretty bad flame story since no one likes investment bankers

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MURPH
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Re: Investment Banker Needs Law school advice, 158

Postby MURPH » Thu Jun 24, 2010 9:08 pm

seasurf wrote:
let/them/eat/cake wrote:
APimpNamedSlickback wrote:no one that does legit banking calls it "i banking." also, i refuse to believe that a decent analyst at a bulge bracket couldnt break a 163. i mean, c'mon.

stop giving finance kids a bad name and stop posting. tyia.


perfect. although i was really hoping no one in the thread had commented on this yet. "I bankers with 158s? no wonder we are in the mess we're in." something along those lines.

that's prob the most prickish thing i've said on these boards.


The lsat is not the most important measure of intelligence. I graduated top 5% of my class from a respected business school and scored the top 5% on my SATS. The LSAT is one test, and like I said, I did not study that much (took only 6 practice exams and no prep course)

Also, I am asking for some serious advice about law school options in New York. If you dont believe my situation or think that my situation indicates that analysts are dumb, then screw off.
Just ignore them. If you want good advice look at Pithypike's guide to the LSAT, apply early.

motiontodismiss
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Re: Investment Banker Needs Law school advice, 158

Postby motiontodismiss » Fri Jun 25, 2010 11:23 am

Study and retake. If you can't get at least a 165 after 4 months of intense studying, you don't belong in law school.

You know as a securities lawyer you'll just be sitting across the table from the bankers you hate so much right?

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thexfactor
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Re: Investment Banker Needs Law school advice, 158

Postby thexfactor » Fri Jun 25, 2010 11:34 am

take hte GMATS and try to apply to NW. In some circumstances they take a GMAT score as a replacement for the LSAT.

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romothesavior
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Re: Investment Banker Needs Law school advice, 158

Postby romothesavior » Fri Jun 25, 2010 11:36 am

I am one of the biggest callers of "FLAME" and I love nothing more than to turn a stupid thread into an oasis of memes, funny pictures, and hilarious trolling. With that said, I don't understand why we are calling this guy fake and treating him like crap. Let's keep this to useful advice and try to be respectful.

dukelawguy144
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Re: Investment Banker Needs Law school advice, 158

Postby dukelawguy144 » Fri Jun 25, 2010 12:07 pm

romothesavior wrote:I am one of the biggest callers of "FLAME" and I love nothing more than to turn a stupid thread into an oasis of memes, funny pictures, and hilarious trolling. With that said, I don't understand why we are calling this guy fake and treating him like crap. Let's keep this to useful advice and try to be respectful.


bc there is no way a person with a 1450 Sat and an investment banker at a company like goldman could not get above a 160 after three Attempts.

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Dtackpat75
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Re: Investment Banker Needs Law school advice, 158

Postby Dtackpat75 » Fri Jun 25, 2010 12:14 pm

thexfactor wrote:take hte GMATS and try to apply to NW. In some circumstances they take a GMAT score as a replacement for the LSAT.


This is good advice. You could try for the 3 year integrated JD/MBA program at Northwestern where they only take the GMAT. A great undergrad gpa from a solid school + a solid reason as to why law school + great work experience would be wasted with only a 158. If you don't want to try the JD/MBA route at Northwestern you need to get a great LSAT score. You obviously have the logical reasoning skills to break 170 if you put in the hours of study. If you really want to be a lawyer then go for it, no need to kill yourself at your job if you are trying to leave. If you go to Cardozo just be aware of the realistic possibility that when you come out you will make significantly less money then you are right now and have no shot at working for a big firm or highly coveted gov't position like at the SEC.

jnorsky
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Re: Investment Banker Needs Law school advice, 158

Postby jnorsky » Fri Jun 25, 2010 12:20 pm

Uhh, yea its totally plausible that an Ibanker that took 6 PT's can't break 160. i bet if this guy figured out the test he be in the high 160's to 170's. I know bankers at some of the best ibanks in the world, and most of them can create a mean Valuation Template, but ask them to do anything else and they are fucking retards. The test is something that either clicks or doesnt and taking 6 PT's is not enough time to let it click unless you just get the test. Also, finance is very numbers oriented, reading that much info on the LSAT hurts your brain. Undergrad B-school grad here, and trust me, getting through the test when not taking addy was hard as shit at first. Honestly OP, if you hate your job and you definitely want to go to law school, then quit and take 2 months to study your ass off (PT's every other day, go over them, read the PS bibles, etc) YOu should be able to score at least a 165. With that, you'll be absolutely fine. Your work experience is a big plus, your GPA is a huge plus, just study hard and im sure you will rock the test and get into a great school.

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nealric
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Re: Investment Banker Needs Law school advice, 158

Postby nealric » Fri Jun 25, 2010 3:03 pm

There is no legitimate reason for you to go to law school if you can't get into NYU or Columbia. That's going to require another 12-13 points on the LSAT at least. Even then, those two only make sense, if you really, really, hate banking, understand why the law is different, and can articulate why law would be better.

Brooklyn, Cardozo, or the like would be the biggest career mistake you could make. Sounds like it's time to get that MBA.

seasurf
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Re: Investment Banker Needs Law school advice, 158

Postby seasurf » Fri Jun 25, 2010 9:20 pm

dukelawguy144 wrote:
romothesavior wrote:I am one of the biggest callers of "FLAME" and I love nothing more than to turn a stupid thread into an oasis of memes, funny pictures, and hilarious trolling. With that said, I don't understand why we are calling this guy fake and treating him like crap. Let's keep this to useful advice and try to be respectful.


bc there is no way a person with a 1450 Sat and an investment banker at a company like goldman could not get above a 160 after three Attempts.


dukelawguy,

You have some serious issues. I do not work for Goldman by the way. Just because you could not get an analyst job does not mean you need to put other people down. Like, I said, I made some mistakes when I did not prepare but do not make false assumptions about my intellect.

Also, I have closed more deals and worked harder than majority of people at my age. Plus, my success in undergrad suggests that I will do fine in law school. I am not asking people to tell people I am not smart enouph to go to law school (which I know is not true) but where I could get admitted in the NYC area (don't wanna leave my new apartment haha)

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yinz
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Re: Investment Banker Needs Law school advice, 158

Postby yinz » Fri Jun 25, 2010 9:48 pm

seasurf wrote:Also, I have closed more deals and worked harder than majority of people at my age. Plus, my success in undergrad suggests that I will do fine in law school. I am not asking people to tell people I am not smart enouph to go to law school (which I know is not true) but where I could get admitted in the NYC area (don't wanna leave my new apartment haha)


--ImageRemoved--

But seriously, answer these questions:

(a) Why not get a graduate degree for free? If you aren't satisfied with your current job (or future prospects) what makes you think securities law is going to invigorate and challenge you? Have you spoken with practicing lawyers about it?

(b) If you are serious about your desire to attend law school, then why don't you have the motivation to study for the test on which you are primarily judged/admitted? I'd make up your mind soon as to whether or not you really want this and either plan on attending Bschool or studying every weeknight and most weekends (for two-three solid months, during the summer time, when all your buddies want to grab drinks and skirts) for the LSAT.
Last edited by yinz on Fri Jun 25, 2010 9:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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romothesavior
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Re: Investment Banker Needs Law school advice, 158

Postby romothesavior » Fri Jun 25, 2010 9:55 pm

OP, I don't doubt your success or your intellect. But you are making great money in a great job, and there are likely many exit options for you besides law school. You need to really think about whether or not you want to be a lawyer. If you are just looking to bail on your current job, that's a poor reason. You should investigate your industry's job market and see if there is a company or firm where you could increase your QOL.

If, on the other hand, you really want to be a lawyer, then nealric is absolutely credited. Do not go to Brooklyn or Cardozo. You better get your ass focused on the LSAT, because Columbia, NYU, and maaaaybe Fordham would be the only schools worth going to in NYC. I think someone with your background from a top school like C or N would have a great shot at biglaw, but there is no way you should even consider Brooklyn, Dozo, NYLS, or any of the other NYC schools.

dukelawguy144
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Re: Investment Banker Needs Law school advice, 158

Postby dukelawguy144 » Fri Jun 25, 2010 10:54 pm

romothesavior wrote:OP, I don't doubt your success or your intellect. But you are making great money in a great job, and there are likely many exit options for you besides law school. You need to really think about whether or not you want to be a lawyer. If you are just looking to bail on your current job, that's a poor reason. You should investigate your industry's job market and see if there is a company or firm where you could increase your QOL.

If, on the other hand, you really want to be a lawyer, then nealric is absolutely credited. Do not go to Brooklyn or Cardozo. You better get your ass focused on the LSAT, because Columbia, NYU, and maaaaybe Fordham would be the only schools worth going to in NYC. I think someone with your background from a top school like C or N would have a great shot at biglaw, but there is no way you should even consider Brooklyn, Dozo, NYLS, or any of the other NYC schools.


I do doubt his intellect if he can't get above a 158. I mean cmon...

But I do agree with you that Cardozo or Brooklyn are horrible options. No one in the right mind would leave a 120k plus Analyst job to make 80k a year at a low tier law firm that recruits from these schools .

If op is real, he is going to make a horrendous mistake if he considers law school with his low score. But I still stand by my contention that he is full of shit.




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