Is Applying Early THAT Critical?

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Nulli Secundus
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Is Applying Early THAT Critical?

Postby Nulli Secundus » Wed Jun 23, 2010 5:40 am

Hi,

I am from Turkey and will take October LSAT. Since my practice tests so far average in mid 170s and I have some positive "softs" as they are called here (i.e. attending 2 Joint Strike Fighter Supreme Audit Institutions meetings in Oslo and London as the sole representative of Turkish Court of Accounts -Supreme Audit Institution of Turkey, equivalent of Government Accountability Office) which as you might know is a multibillion $$ project that US is also in and buying 2443 planes AND organizing the next conference in Turkey --- working in a quasi-law career as in what we do in the Supreme Audit Institutions, auditing the compliance of transactions to applicable regulations etc etc, also even though I do not have official URM status, how often do they receive applicants from Turkey, if they are a bit sincere about this diversity stuff, they should take me :P); so I plan to go all out and apply to a T-14. (Incidentally also my only option, since having a prestigious job in Turkey does not translate into being able to make enough money to finance a law education in US, so I will only be financially afloat at the graduation if I have a guarantee for a good job) (I am aware that a T-14 does not guarantee a good job, especially under the current economic climate, however it does not hurt my chances either :P)

Thing is, OctobeR LSAT scores will only be available by the beginning of November and even if we assume that I don't panic during the exam and myriad other things that may go wrong, in fact, do not; I will only be able to apply (at the earliest) by like Nov 5. From several other threads I see people starting to receive their replies by November 25, so my question is, how criticial is applying early, do I destroy my chances simply by applying at the date I am going to apply?

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CG614
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Re: Is Applying Early THAT Critical?

Postby CG614 » Wed Jun 23, 2010 6:59 am

Depends on each school, their class size, and their admission's practice. You should be fine with Nov 5, for most places.

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Teoeo
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Re: Is Applying Early THAT Critical?

Postby Teoeo » Wed Jun 23, 2010 7:37 am

Have your apps ready to go before the LSAT scores come out. If you apply in early November you will be fine (just don't wait until January or something)

ze2151
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Re: Is Applying Early THAT Critical?

Postby ze2151 » Wed Jun 23, 2010 7:39 am

my earliest apps came in around thanksgiving, and my latest apps around christmas. no difference whatsoever. get your score. get your stuff in my christmas. you'll be fine. needless to say, a 174 on new year's day beats the snot out of a 155 on halloween.

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JustDude
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Re: Is Applying Early THAT Critical?

Postby JustDude » Thu Jun 24, 2010 12:17 am

nullisecundus wrote:Hi,

I am from Turkey and will take October LSAT. Since my practice tests so far average in mid 170s and I have some positive "softs" as they are called here (i.e. attending 2 Joint Strike Fighter Supreme Audit Institutions meetings in Oslo and London as the sole representative of Turkish Court of Accounts -Supreme Audit Institution of Turkey, equivalent of Government Accountability Office) which as you might know is a multibillion $$ project that US is also in and buying 2443 planes AND organizing the next conference in Turkey --- working in a quasi-law career as in what we do in the Supreme Audit Institutions, auditing the compliance of transactions to applicable regulations etc etc, also even though I do not have official URM status, how often do they receive applicants from Turkey, if they are a bit sincere about this diversity stuff, they should take me :P); so I plan to go all out and apply to a T-14. (Incidentally also my only option, since having a prestigious job in Turkey does not translate into being able to make enough money to finance a law education in US, so I will only be financially afloat at the graduation if I have a guarantee for a good job) (I am aware that a T-14 does not guarantee a good job, especially under the current economic climate, however it does not hurt my chances either :P)

Thing is, OctobeR LSAT scores will only be available by the beginning of November and even if we assume that I don't panic during the exam and myriad other things that may go wrong, in fact, do not; I will only be able to apply (at the earliest) by like Nov 5. From several other threads I see people starting to receive their replies by November 25, so my question is, how criticial is applying early, do I destroy my chances simply by applying at the date I am going to apply?


Several things dude.

1. No one cares about your conferences with all those long names. Just because it was "quasi legal" it is noy going to mean a lot to AdComm. Those are not "softs". I mean I understand that you probably was in a high position there, but it doesnt mean that much.

Also you are not URM. You are turkish and that goes into category "caucasian". No diversity points here.

2. Your LSAT. I read in another thread of yours that you were practicing in mid 170. However you wrote some other stuff there (such as you need to check KAPLAN for explanations on worong answers and that paractice for LSAT is basically familirization yourself with question type) and that leads me to believe that you didnt take LSAT under "Real" conditions. Such as 5 sections, stress and time constraint. Do it, and then it will be a little more clear where you stand.

3. Your PS is an absolute S***, that you posted in PS forum. On a positive side it seems like you are trying and it gives me hope that you are not a flame. May be not hope. I kinda hope that you are an elaborate flame.

4. We have very limited experience with international students here. Most of internationls here are canadiens (which is not that different from American, and they dont require work visas to start working here). There were couple other, true internationals who did their UG and G studies here before Law School. (Example: a chineese national with 17X LSAT and PhD in science from Top US School was admitted only to Fordham (no scholly)).And interestingly enough, I have never seen any other type of international. It seems like internationals are not that common in LS. Unlike other graduate programms or business schools. Look even in ABA statistics - 2-3%. There is a reason for that. Do you really think there is not enough smart people around the world that would crack LSAT in order to get to US and have a high paying job??? LOL. Half of India would be here already. But nevertheless numbers are very low. and , once again, the only internationals I know (after perusing hundreds of applicants on LSN and here and other sires) were from Canada. (with exception of that chinese dude)

5. Also money. You said you dont have enough. Sadly, you will need to show proof of funds BEFORE getting in US. This will include tuition AND living expenses. 200K. Can you do this or not???

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alexonfyre
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Re: Is Applying Early THAT Critical?

Postby alexonfyre » Thu Jun 24, 2010 12:22 am

JustDude wrote:
Also you are not URM. You are turkish and that goes into category "caucasian". No diversity points here.

And interestingly enough, I have never seen any other type of international. It seems like internationals are not that common in LS. Unlike other graduate programms or business schools. Look even in ABA statistics - 2-3%.


Just curious

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JustDude
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Re: Is Applying Early THAT Critical?

Postby JustDude » Thu Jun 24, 2010 12:46 am

alexonfyre wrote:
JustDude wrote:
Also you are not URM. You are turkish and that goes into category "caucasian". No diversity points here.

And interestingly enough, I have never seen any other type of international. It seems like internationals are not that common in LS. Unlike other graduate programms or business schools. Look even in ABA statistics - 2-3%.


Just curious


Not sure what you mean. Are you implying that the fact that LS accepts only 2-3% of foreigners actually makes him a diversity applicant?. I would guess not.

If they wanted internationals, they would be able to get them. I dont think there is lack of quality applications or interest from foreign nationals. However, they only accept 2-3 %. That leads me to believe that being international is not a boost to your application.

Regarding his URM status based on race - he is caucassian for all they care. No points there as well.

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Nulli Secundus
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Re: Is Applying Early THAT Critical?

Postby Nulli Secundus » Thu Jun 24, 2010 2:16 am

Thanks for the honest answer, thats all I really wanted.

1 - I am NOT a flame, or troll, or whatever you wish to call the people that try to waste other people's time.
2 - I did take those LSAT's under time constraints, but 4 sections. (I finish the test, check the answer key, find out where I failed and if I cannot at first glance see how I failed, I read the KAPLAN explanation for that question in that PT - i.e. I do not check KAPLAN during the test)
3 - PS is indeed shit but I had to include the information about that meetings with long names somewhere and "Meetings attended" is a lame header for resume.
4 - As for very few international students, they might not trust their English or their accent enough to try practicing law in the US and I do.
5 - As I said I do not have formal URM status, but as you pointed out international students are extremely rare, even more so than some URMs out there and if the AdComms out there are not providing slight advantages to those groups only out of fear of lawsuits BUT (however unlikely) out of an interest for diverse opinions in the classroom discussions, I might be favorably evaluated if other parts of my application do not completely fail.

That's all.

Fark-o-vision
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Re: Is Applying Early THAT Critical?

Postby Fark-o-vision » Thu Jun 24, 2010 2:28 am

JustDude wrote:
nullisecundus wrote:Hi,

I am from Turkey and will take October LSAT. Since my practice tests so far average in mid 170s and I have some positive "softs" as they are called here (i.e. attending 2 Joint Strike Fighter Supreme Audit Institutions meetings in Oslo and London as the sole representative of Turkish Court of Accounts -Supreme Audit Institution of Turkey, equivalent of Government Accountability Office) which as you might know is a multibillion $$ project that US is also in and buying 2443 planes AND organizing the next conference in Turkey --- working in a quasi-law career as in what we do in the Supreme Audit Institutions, auditing the compliance of transactions to applicable regulations etc etc, also even though I do not have official URM status, how often do they receive applicants from Turkey, if they are a bit sincere about this diversity stuff, they should take me :P); so I plan to go all out and apply to a T-14. (Incidentally also my only option, since having a prestigious job in Turkey does not translate into being able to make enough money to finance a law education in US, so I will only be financially afloat at the graduation if I have a guarantee for a good job) (I am aware that a T-14 does not guarantee a good job, especially under the current economic climate, however it does not hurt my chances either :P)

Thing is, OctobeR LSAT scores will only be available by the beginning of November and even if we assume that I don't panic during the exam and myriad other things that may go wrong, in fact, do not; I will only be able to apply (at the earliest) by like Nov 5. From several other threads I see people starting to receive their replies by November 25, so my question is, how criticial is applying early, do I destroy my chances simply by applying at the date I am going to apply?


Several things dude.

1. No one cares about your conferences with all those long names. Just because it was "quasi legal" it is noy going to mean a lot to AdComm. Those are not "softs". I mean I understand that you probably was in a high position there, but it doesnt mean that much.

Also you are not URM. You are turkish and that goes into category "caucasian". No diversity points here.

2. Your LSAT. I read in another thread of yours that you were practicing in mid 170. However you wrote some other stuff there (such as you need to check KAPLAN for explanations on worong answers and that paractice for LSAT is basically familirization yourself with question type) and that leads me to believe that you didnt take LSAT under "Real" conditions. Such as 5 sections, stress and time constraint. Do it, and then it will be a little more clear where you stand.

3. Your PS is an absolute S***, that you posted in PS forum. On a positive side it seems like you are trying and it gives me hope that you are not a flame. May be not hope. I kinda hope that you are an elaborate flame.

4. We have very limited experience with international students here. Most of internationls here are canadiens (which is not that different from American, and they dont require work visas to start working here). There were couple other, true internationals who did their UG and G studies here before Law School. (Example: a chineese national with 17X LSAT and PhD in science from Top US School was admitted only to Fordham (no scholly)).And interestingly enough, I have never seen any other type of international. It seems like internationals are not that common in LS. Unlike other graduate programms or business schools. Look even in ABA statistics - 2-3%. There is a reason for that. Do you really think there is not enough smart people around the world that would crack LSAT in order to get to US and have a high paying job??? LOL. Half of India would be here already. But nevertheless numbers are very low. and , once again, the only internationals I know (after perusing hundreds of applicants on LSN and here and other sires) were from Canada. (with exception of that chinese dude)

5. Also money. You said you dont have enough. Sadly, you will need to show proof of funds BEFORE getting in US. This will include tuition AND living expenses. 200K. Can you do this or not???


Wow. for an uppity bigot know it all there were a lot of mistakes in your post.

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Nulli Secundus
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Re: Is Applying Early THAT Critical?

Postby Nulli Secundus » Thu Jun 24, 2010 2:40 am

Er, I am not offended by his comments, so I do not want this thread derailed to a flaming war between the two of you.

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JustDude
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Re: Is Applying Early THAT Critical?

Postby JustDude » Thu Jun 24, 2010 2:53 am

Fark-o-vision wrote:
Wow. for an uppity bigot know it all there were a lot of mistakes in your post.


LOL I never said that I write absolute truth. Its just my opinion. Which, quite frankly, very often is an absolute truth.



Anyway, feel free to refute anything.


However, the fact that there is only 2-3% foreigners in Law Schools, means that LS discriminate against foreigners, rather then providing some boost. Thats my opinion. and most of this foreigners are canadians anyway

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RickyRoe
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Re: Is Applying Early THAT Critical?

Postby RickyRoe » Thu Jun 24, 2010 3:01 am

nullisecundus wrote:Thanks for the honest answer, thats all I really wanted.

1 - I am NOT a flame, or troll, or whatever you wish to call the people that try to waste other people's time.
2 - I did take those LSAT's under time constraints, but 4 sections. (I finish the test, check the answer key, find out where I failed and if I cannot at first glance see how I failed, I read the KAPLAN explanation for that question in that PT - i.e. I do not check KAPLAN during the test)
3 - PS is indeed shit but I had to include the information about that meetings with long names somewhere and "Meetings attended" is a lame header for resume.
4 - As for very few international students, they might not trust their English or their accent enough to try practicing law in the US and I do.
5 - As I said I do not have formal URM status, but as you pointed out international students are extremely rare, even more so than some URMs out there and if the AdComms out there are not providing slight advantages to those groups only out of fear of lawsuits BUT (however unlikely) out of an interest for diverse opinions in the classroom discussions, I might be favorably evaluated if other parts of my application do not completely fail.

That's all.


International JD students might not be common, but they dominate masters level law degree programs. I don't know what that means for your situation, I just know this to be a fact.

Azmatt
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Re: Is Applying Early THAT Critical?

Postby Azmatt » Thu Jun 24, 2010 11:03 am

JustDude wrote:
Fark-o-vision wrote:
Wow. for an uppity bigot know it all there were a lot of mistakes in your post.


LOL I never said that I write absolute truth. Its just my opinion. Which, quite frankly, very often is an absolute truth.



Anyway, feel free to refute anything.


However, the fact that there is only 2-3% foreigners in Law Schools, means that LS discriminate against foreigners, rather then providing some boost. Thats my opinion. and most of this foreigners are canadians anyway


As opposed to not-so-absolute truth?

I'm sure it has to do with discimination instead of the fact that American law school is a study very specific to American law.... Whereas medicine can be learned in America and practiced across the world, Law contrasts across the world. For example, going to Yale and then trying to practice in China may put you at a disadvantage compared to those who went to a Chinese law school. Who knows... Insert any number of examples which would negate your flame.


Either way, you just come off as a huge doucher.


P.S. Good luck, OP.

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JustDude
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Re: Is Applying Early THAT Critical?

Postby JustDude » Thu Jun 24, 2010 11:45 pm

Azmatt wrote:
LOL I never said that I write absolute truth. Its just my opinion. Which, quite frankly, very often is an absolute truth.



Anyway, feel free to refute anything.


However, the fact that there is only 2-3% foreigners in Law Schools, means that LS discriminate against foreigners, rather then providing some boost. Thats my opinion. and most of this foreigners are canadians anyway


As opposed to not-so-absolute truth?

I'm sure it has to do with discimination instead of the fact that American law school is a study very specific to American law.... Whereas medicine can be learned in America and practiced across the world, Law contrasts across the world. For example, going to Yale and then trying to practice in China may put you at a disadvantage compared to those who went to a Chinese law school. Who knows... Insert any number of examples which would negate your flame.


Either way, you just come off as a huge doucher.


P.S. Good luck, OP.[/quote]

LOL Dude, misunderstanding. When I said "discrimination" the only thing I meant is that being a foreigner will reduce your chances. I really didnt care for the reasons. You probvided a very good possible explanation for that. I dont disagree with you.

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Tangerine Gleam
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Re: Is Applying Early THAT Critical?

Postby Tangerine Gleam » Thu Jun 24, 2010 11:49 pm

Too long, didn't read -- but early November is fine. You and everyone else this year won't get their LSAT scores until early November. You'll be with the rest of the pack in that sense. December LSAT is another story...I think that definitely starts to change things. But in general, apply soon after you get your Oct LSAT score and you'll be just fine.

brocklanders12
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Re: Is Applying Early THAT Critical?

Postby brocklanders12 » Fri Jun 25, 2010 12:07 am

I applied on the very last day (in March) and got into my dream school despite being at about the 33rd percentile for LSAT and GPA, with money. And the money seemed pretty good compared to the other scholarships given out. But I am probably the exception and not the rule. I just was screwed over on a LOR.

ohiodem
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Re: Is Applying Early THAT Critical?

Postby ohiodem » Fri Jun 25, 2010 12:12 am

It's not critical, and with the right numbers, your application sounds like it will stand out. That being said, if I could change one thing about my application cycle: I should have applied early.

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applepiecrust
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Re: Is Applying Early THAT Critical?

Postby applepiecrust » Fri Jun 25, 2010 12:39 am

JustDude, do you get off on being a douche bag?

Have you considered that not many international students APPLY to US law schools because a JD degree is 1. not very portable and doesn't travel well across countries (as stated above, due to the nature of law) and 2. expensive as hell to get?

As far as I can tell, there is nothing to indicate that international applicants even constitute more than 2-3% of the entire applicant pool. Of course, this is not counting people who are dual citizens or American citizens raised and educated abroad.

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Canarsie
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Re: Is Applying Early THAT Critical?

Postby Canarsie » Fri Jun 25, 2010 1:27 am

JustDude wrote:4. We have very limited experience with international students here.


I know a Colombian who went to YLS. Does this help contribute?

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JustDude
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Re: Is Applying Early THAT Critical?

Postby JustDude » Fri Jun 25, 2010 1:30 am

Canarsie wrote:
JustDude wrote:4. We have very limited experience with international students here.


I know a Colombian who went to YLS. Does this help contribute?


It does. Share

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Canarsie
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Re: Is Applying Early THAT Critical?

Postby Canarsie » Fri Jun 25, 2010 11:38 am

JustDude wrote:
Canarsie wrote:
JustDude wrote:4. We have very limited experience with international students here.


I know a Colombian who went to YLS. Does this help contribute?


It does. Share


He already had a law degree from the Pontificia Universidad Javeriana, and then got his mater's in law and doctorate in the science of law from Yale. Non-traditional student (smartest person I know). Went on to become Assistant General of Human Rights in Bogota but started investigating a member of the military (a general I believe) for extramartial killing. That person owned a private security company... my friend had to start using bodyguards. Eventually he moved to Spain and can never return to Colombia.

In summation, go bulldogs!!


SRS: I don't know his exact age upon application, nor his GPA/LSAT (I would imagine they were exceptionally high). He was an older applicant and had already completed a law degree and published many works. I'd imagine he was a shoe-in for many law schools.

berkeleykel06
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Re: Is Applying Early THAT Critical?

Postby berkeleykel06 » Fri Jun 25, 2010 12:01 pm

Canarsie wrote:He already had a law degree from the Pontificia Universidad Javeriana, and then got his mater's in law and doctorate in the science of law from Yale. Non-traditional student (smartest person I know). Went on to become Assistant General of Human Rights in Bogota but started investigating a member of the military (a general I believe) for extramartial killing. That person owned a private security company... my friend had to start using bodyguards. Eventually he moved to Spain and can never return to Colombia.

In summation, go bulldogs!!


SRS: I don't know his exact age upon application, nor his GPA/LSAT (I would imagine they were exceptionally high). He was an older applicant and had already completed a law degree and published many works. I'd imagine he was a shoe-in for many law schools.


This doesn't count. JustDude was talking about there being few international JDs in US law schools. Int'l LLMs are not rare at all as has already been pointed out.

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Canarsie
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Re: Is Applying Early THAT Critical?

Postby Canarsie » Fri Jun 25, 2010 2:41 pm

berkeleykel06 wrote:
Canarsie wrote:He already had a law degree from the Pontificia Universidad Javeriana, and then got his mater's in law and doctorate in the science of law from Yale. Non-traditional student (smartest person I know). Went on to become Assistant General of Human Rights in Bogota but started investigating a member of the military (a general I believe) for extramartial killing. That person owned a private security company... my friend had to start using bodyguards. Eventually he moved to Spain and can never return to Colombia.

In summation, go bulldogs!!


SRS: I don't know his exact age upon application, nor his GPA/LSAT (I would imagine they were exceptionally high). He was an older applicant and had already completed a law degree and published many works. I'd imagine he was a shoe-in for many law schools.


This doesn't count. JustDude was talking about there being few international JDs in US law schools. Int'l LLMs are not rare at all as has already been pointed out.


Yeah I figured, I was quasi-joking when I offered the information anyway. I didn't know anything about international LLMs, guess I missed it in this thread.

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biglll
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Re: Is Applying Early THAT Critical?

Postby biglll » Sun Jun 27, 2010 7:51 am

-Russian, went to Russian UG
-162, 169
-Admitted at Vandy, WL at UVA

Just my 2cents for the sake of statisitics.


Now stunning with the financial side of it, so OP think twice before investing much into applying. But if your native language is not English and you're practicing in the 170s, it deserves a deep respect. I felt that I would crack it if the LSAT was in Russian, and my underperformance was on the reading comp section.

And--don't listen to those who say that the time of your app is not important, these guys just have no real need in the scholarship money.

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Nulli Secundus
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Re: Is Applying Early THAT Critical?

Postby Nulli Secundus » Mon Jun 28, 2010 4:15 am

Thanks :)




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