Should I, a Teacher, Go to Law School?

(Applications Advice, Letters of Recommendation . . . )

What should I DO???? I scored 165.

Go to Law School
17
26%
Don't go to Law School
48
74%
 
Total votes: 65

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schmohawk
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Re: Should I, a Teacher, Go to Law School?

Postby schmohawk » Sat Jun 19, 2010 2:00 am

Richie Tenenbaum wrote:
schmohawk wrote:
PLATONiC wrote:
schmohawk wrote:
By that logic, if I'm on the losing side of the deal, you must be on the winning side? You're cheating the government, I hardly would call you a winner. I'd call you a cheater. And your Plato reference doesn't apply since there are repercussions in this case, such as serious fines and jail time. Also, saying that you pay as much as the average taxpayer on a per capita basis is irrelevant. Nothing wrong with making some extra scrilla on the side, just do it the right way. C&F probably wouldn't catch it unless the IRS caught you first, but that still doesn't make it okay.

I realize you may look at it as no big deal since it's your money anyway, but as long as it's a law, well then it's a law. And tax evasion, in any form and at any amount, is against the law. Besides, you sound like you have a lucrative side business that I'll bet could really grow even more if you wanted it to. You're only hurting yourself by constantly having to lie on your tax return. And if you want to find a banker in the U.S. to fund your growth, these days auditors look for the numbers used for underwriting. So good luck.

But yes, I agree that if there were no repercussions, I guess we'd all do it. But then, we wouldn't have a country. Like I said, pay your taxes if you're coming this way.


urgh;; you and I are on different wave lengths. I am so sorry.

One more thing: I think the world needs more people like you so that bolded doesn't happen. That way, I can evade taxes and we'd still have a country!


Yeah, we're on totally separate wavelengths. When I was a kid, if I was out with my friends playing and we came across a "No Trespassing" sign, I stopped. I got laughed at a few times, but I just don't have that bone in me that allows me to live dangerously. Not saying I've never broken the rules, I'm just saying I am the type who gets very nervous when I know I'm doing something I shouldn't be doing. Others might call that a rush, but it never felt good to me. As a grownup, I get a kick out of busting people and I cannot wait to get paid for it. 8)


You both sound like douche bags. HTH.


It does help, thanks.

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PLATONiC
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Re: Should I, a Teacher, Go to Law School?

Postby PLATONiC » Sat Jun 19, 2010 2:00 am

Due to my low GPA (3.4) I will be unable to get scholly from those schools with just high 160s.

EDIT: I'll probably be scoring in the high 160s, btw; I "occasionally" score in 170+ range, but this has only been five times throughout my entire test prep regimen.
Last edited by PLATONiC on Sat Jun 19, 2010 2:02 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Richie Tenenbaum
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Re: Should I, a Teacher, Go to Law School?

Postby Richie Tenenbaum » Sat Jun 19, 2010 2:02 am

PLATONiC wrote:Due to my low GPA (3.4) I will be unable to get scholly from those schools with just high 160s.


Not necessarily true. Give me a sec to find some proof.

*Edit*
Here:
--LinkRemoved--

WUSTL: http://www.hourumd.com/?school=Washingt ... cycle=sort
Illinois: http://www.hourumd.com/?school=Universi ... cycle=sort
W&L: http://www.hourumd.com/?school=Washingt ... cycle=sort
Emory: http://www.hourumd.com/?school=Emory%20 ... cycle=sort
Last edited by Richie Tenenbaum on Sat Jun 19, 2010 2:06 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PLATONiC
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Re: Should I, a Teacher, Go to Law School?

Postby PLATONiC » Sat Jun 19, 2010 2:03 am

You have to consider the fact that I'm not U.S. citizen; I take it that it's generally more difficult for international students to get scholarships...

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Richie Tenenbaum
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Re: Should I, a Teacher, Go to Law School?

Postby Richie Tenenbaum » Sat Jun 19, 2010 2:08 am

PLATONiC wrote:You have to consider the fact that I'm not U.S. citizen; I take it that it's generally more difficult for international students to get scholarships...


Maybe some international students can confirm this, but I haven't heard anything about international students having a harder time getting scholarships.

For the previous links, keep in mind the most recent years are probably the most representative.

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PLATONiC
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Re: Should I, a Teacher, Go to Law School?

Postby PLATONiC » Sat Jun 19, 2010 2:11 am

You know, going to law school "half off" sounds extremely attractive if it's in the T20 range... hrmmm... What do you think these people did that got them $$$$ at these schools? Even when their numbers are below other applicants, they still manage to pull off $55-$75k...

Could it be an upward grade trend, or a good personal statement? How much of a role do you think that their LORs played in getting scholly?

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PLATONiC
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Re: Should I, a Teacher, Go to Law School?

Postby PLATONiC » Sat Jun 19, 2010 2:15 am

schmohawk wrote:It does help, thanks.


You know, schmohawk, I'd hate to start things again with you, but I have a feeling that you're one of those people that dislike illegal immigrants working in the U.S.;;

As a matter of fact, I made about $30,000/year cooking Chinese food and waiting tables illegally while attending UG.

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Richie Tenenbaum
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Re: Should I, a Teacher, Go to Law School?

Postby Richie Tenenbaum » Sat Jun 19, 2010 2:16 am

PLATONiC wrote:You know, going to law school "half off" sounds extremely attractive if it's in the T20 range... hrmmm... What do you think these people did that got them $$$$ at these schools? Even when their numbers are below other applicants, they still manage to pull off $55-$75k...

Could it be an upward grade trend, or a good personal statement? How much of a role do you think that their LORs played in getting scholly?


Scholarship money is more unpredictable than acceptances. I think softs and providing a good fit for the class matters. Getting apps in early helps as well. So does applying to a lot of different schools so you can leverage offers at schools against each other.

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schmohawk
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Re: Should I, a Teacher, Go to Law School?

Postby schmohawk » Sat Jun 19, 2010 2:37 am

PLATONiC wrote:
schmohawk wrote:It does help, thanks.


You know, schmohawk, I'd hate to start things again with you, but I have a feeling that you're one of those people that dislike illegal immigrants working in the U.S.;;

As a matter of fact, I made about $30,000/year cooking Chinese food and waiting tables illegally while attending UG.


I don't know much about student visas but you had to be here legally if you were enrolled in school (right?) then the fact that you were stir frying pea pods on the side only speaks more of your drive and hard work ethic. It makes no sense to me why someone like that would want to go about things illegally. I'm not sure what you're getting at with me being one of "those" people. I try not to break the law if that's what you mean. And let's not confuse this discussion with one of immigration entirely. I think people who sneak into the country illegally, particularly from Mexico, have no other option. They're doing what they can to make a better life for themselves, and I'm all for that, including amnesty in certain cases. But you don't fit that description my friend. You sound like a smart guy who works hard and knows how to cheat the system. The system that the rest of us have to pay into so that you can eat cheeseburgers all day.

Two things in life are certain: death and taxes.

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PLATONiC
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Re: Should I, a Teacher, Go to Law School?

Postby PLATONiC » Sat Jun 19, 2010 2:54 am

schmohawk wrote:
PLATONiC wrote:
schmohawk wrote:It does help, thanks.


You know, schmohawk, I'd hate to start things again with you, but I have a feeling that you're one of those people that dislike illegal immigrants working in the U.S.;;

As a matter of fact, I made about $30,000/year cooking Chinese food and waiting tables illegally while attending UG.


I don't know much about student visas but you had to be here legally if you were enrolled in school (right?) then the fact that you were stir frying pea pods on the side only speaks more of your drive and hard work ethic. It makes no sense to me why someone like that would want to go about things illegally. I'm not sure what you're getting at with me being one of "those" people. I try not to break the law if that's what you mean. And let's not confuse this discussion with one of immigration entirely. I think people who sneak into the country illegally, particularly from Mexico, have no other option. They're doing what they can to make a better life for themselves, and I'm all for that, including amnesty in certain cases. But you don't fit that description my friend. You sound like a smart guy who works hard and knows how to cheat the system. The system that the rest of us have to pay into so that you can eat cheeseburgers all day.

Two things in life are certain: death and taxes.


The thing about visas is that there are so many kinds. I happened to have a visa that made it illegal for me to have income while studying in the U.S.

Mr. Clemens was right in some respect, but in South Korea, almost everyone that I know tries their best to minimize income reporting as much as possible. Unlike the U.S., there is an infinitessimal number of attorneys in comparison to size of the population, so sophisticated tax planning isn't as widely available to the average citizen. I do admit that there are tax specialists that people could technically work with, but I've never seen my parents, who make about $100K a year, visit them.

But, actually, even in the U.S., both of the restaurants that I worked at concealed a good 25% of their total sales from the government; they used various tricks to accomplish this (i.e. having some of the workers use "bogus guest checks" while the rest use actual guest checks, and so on.).

I think it taks a great deal of personal integrity to be the law-abiding-citizen when there are so many loopholes (both legal and illegal) in the system.

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A'nold
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Re: Should I, a Teacher, Go to Law School?

Postby A'nold » Sat Jun 19, 2010 3:17 am

I like you a lot chigago2013, but lulz at the cliche that teachers' salaries are criminal. Actually, I'd agree. It's criminal that people can slack of in UG at any school of basically any caliber, make 50k+ w/in 5 years, get summers off, and laze around all day. Contrary to what many on here have said, teaching is probably one of the most cake jobs on earth.

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northwood
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Re: Should I, a Teacher, Go to Law School?

Postby northwood » Sat Jun 19, 2010 9:54 am

A'nold wrote:I like you a lot chigago2013, but lulz at the cliche that teachers' salaries are criminal. Actually, I'd agree. It's criminal that people can slack of in UG at any school of basically any caliber, make 50k+ w/in 5 years, get summers off, and laze around all day. Contrary to what many on here have said, teaching is probably one of the most cake jobs on earth.


try teaching and i bet you willl change your mind. They have to put up with a lot of garbage, and deal with crazy parents and students. Teaches start out at 33-38K a year, then get a 1k raise each year they are in service( as long as budgets pass) You will get to work 12 hour days ( not including calling parents, and extracurricular activities for which you may or may not get paid- and if you do, it will be pennies on the hour for all work involved). Lets not forget about high stakes testing, and the fact taht your performance is based on your students success rate. Summers off- you're not getting paid for that time off. Its not the cake job that everyone thinks it is.

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D. H2Oman
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Re: Should I, a Teacher, Go to Law School?

Postby D. H2Oman » Sat Jun 19, 2010 9:55 am

northwood wrote:
A'nold wrote:I like you a lot chigago2013, but lulz at the cliche that teachers' salaries are criminal. Actually, I'd agree. It's criminal that people can slack of in UG at any school of basically any caliber, make 50k+ w/in 5 years, get summers off, and laze around all day. Contrary to what many on here have said, teaching is probably one of the most cake jobs on earth.


try teaching and i bet you willl change your mind. They have to put up with a lot of garbage, and deal with crazy parents and students. Teaches start out at 33-38K a year, then get a 1k raise each year they are in service( as long as budgets pass) You will get to work 12 hour days ( not including calling parents, and extracurricular activities for which you may or may not get paid- and if you do, it will be pennies on the hour for all work involved). Lets not forget about high stakes testing, and the fact taht your performance is based on your students success rate. Summers off- you're not getting paid for that time off. Its not the cake job that everyone thinks it is.



Yes it is.

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20160810
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Re: Should I, a Teacher, Go to Law School?

Postby 20160810 » Sat Jun 19, 2010 6:14 pm

It depends. I will probably not make much more doing public defense work than I did when I was a teacher, but practicing law is what I want to do with my life, so to me, it's worth it. Just comes down to how much you like teaching.

Mirrored
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Re: Should I, a Teacher, Go to Law School?

Postby Mirrored » Sat Jun 19, 2010 6:46 pm

Don't go, but not for any of the concerns you had.

Do not go to law school because you are not determined to be a lawyer. You are waffling. You want more engagement with work and think that law offers this engagement. It may not offer it, or you may find that you're not particularly engaged with it.

You should only go to law school if you have a specific career plan. Not because you want something different and law sounds good.

Much of the actual work is going to be tedious.

First, you have to be able to talk to clients, that part of the job is basically sales. It's only fun/engaging if you're discussing ideas with clients that are cooperative and want to discuss. It is horrible when you are discussing bills for hours. As part of my job I have to evaluate attorney invoices and question them on it. All of them find it unpleasant.

Second, you have to review a lot of materials. Sometimes this is interesting because you are learning something. Other times it is checking 10,000 forms to see if certain fields are filled correctly. Discovery is the bulk of most lawsuits and it can be boring. Diligence is the bulk of most M&A work, it can be boring. Much of other legal work is the same.

Third, you will develop a skill set that you will apply over and over again. Seldom will you be meeting with issues of first impression and often you will be doing routine work.

But regardless, here's my advice signed up in one line.

You are sure you do not want to be a teacher.
It does not sound like you are sure you want to be a lawyer.

Evaluate your desired professions more. Don't just think law is the answer. And be realistic about employment after.

CMDantes
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Re: Should I, a Teacher, Go to Law School?

Postby CMDantes » Sun Jun 20, 2010 2:21 pm

I would definitely NOT go to law school in your situation.

You've got a house inherited, stable income, a car. You have a steady stream of income and the ability to make more.

I say just keep doing what you're doing, save up a lot of money, and start buying/selling/leasing property through your own management company. That's bank, and it will likely be more fun than your teaching job and DEFINITELY more fun than law school. Chances are it will be more profitable as well.

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adameus
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Re: Should I, a Teacher, Go to Law School?

Postby adameus » Mon Jun 21, 2010 12:34 pm

Seriously, how has anyone not called flame on this guy?

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PLATONiC
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Re: Should I, a Teacher, Go to Law School?

Postby PLATONiC » Sun Jun 27, 2010 11:19 pm

adameus wrote:Seriously, how has anyone not called flame on this guy?


It's been a while since I last checked this thread, but the above post... sheesh, how rude!

CMDantes wrote:I would definitely NOT go to law school in your situation.

You've got a house inherited, stable income, a car. You have a steady stream of income and the ability to make more.

I say just keep doing what you're doing, save up a lot of money, and start buying/selling/leasing property through your own management company. That's bank, and it will likely be more fun than your teaching job and DEFINITELY more fun than law school. Chances are it will be more profitable as well.


I fully understand that point by now; I'm just worried that the "teacher" path that I have set forth for myself will literally dry out the intellectually curious aspect of me. I'm so excited now, after having taken the LSAT, about going to law school; I'm thinking about memorizing the constitution soon:D

Mirrored wrote:Don't go, but not for any of the concerns you had.

Do not go to law school because you are not determined to be a lawyer. You are waffling. You want more engagement with work and think that law offers this engagement. It may not offer it, or you may find that you're not particularly engaged with it.

You should only go to law school if you have a specific career plan. Not because you want something different and law sounds good.

Much of the actual work is going to be tedious.

First, you have to be able to talk to clients, that part of the job is basically sales. It's only fun/engaging if you're discussing ideas with clients that are cooperative and want to discuss. It is horrible when you are discussing bills for hours. As part of my job I have to evaluate attorney invoices and question them on it. All of them find it unpleasant.

Second, you have to review a lot of materials. Sometimes this is interesting because you are learning something. Other times it is checking 10,000 forms to see if certain fields are filled correctly. Discovery is the bulk of most lawsuits and it can be boring. Diligence is the bulk of most M&A work, it can be boring. Much of other legal work is the same.

Third, you will develop a skill set that you will apply over and over again. Seldom will you be meeting with issues of first impression and often you will be doing routine work.

But regardless, here's my advice signed up in one line.

You are sure you do not want to be a teacher.
It does not sound like you are sure you want to be a lawyer.

Evaluate your desired professions more. Don't just think law is the answer. And be realistic about employment after.


This comment's a huge smack in the face for me, and I think the poster really hit the spot for me.

The truth is, though, how would I know that I want to study law with absolute certainty without actually having been there?

jlxbos
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Re: Should I, a Teacher, Go to Law School?

Postby jlxbos » Sun Jun 27, 2010 11:29 pm

i work in a korean high school, and...well. i wouldn't recommend spending your life at a korean school.

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northwood
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Re: Should I, a Teacher, Go to Law School?

Postby northwood » Mon Jun 28, 2010 8:14 pm

This comment's a huge smack in the face for me, and I think the poster really hit the spot for me.

The truth is, though, how would I know that I want to study law with absolute certainty without actually having been there?[/quote]


then take a leave of absence from your job and go to law school. If after the first year you dont like it, then go back to teaching. If you like it, then end your teaching career and become a lawyer. If you are worried about your intellectual curiosity, why not consider getting a phd in education if law doesnt end up being a good fit for you?

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PLATONiC
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Re: Should I, a Teacher, Go to Law School?

Postby PLATONiC » Tue Jul 27, 2010 11:57 pm

I scored a 165, so I will not be attending law school.

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MoS
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Re: Should I, a Teacher, Go to Law School?

Postby MoS » Wed Jul 28, 2010 12:07 am

Simply put, if you need someone else to tell you to go to law school, then you shouldn't go. Period.
/thread

ajmanyjah
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Re: Should I, a Teacher, Go to Law School?

Postby ajmanyjah » Thu Jul 29, 2010 11:15 am

A'nold wrote:I like you a lot chigago2013, but lulz at the cliche that teachers' salaries are criminal. Actually, I'd agree. It's criminal that people can slack of in UG at any school of basically any caliber, make 50k+ w/in 5 years, get summers off, and laze around all day. Contrary to what many on here have said, teaching is probably one of the most cake jobs on earth.



You have never taught. And the slack off at UG of any caliber school---doesn't that remind you of a lot of the entitled lawyer wannabe's on here? I mean how many times do you see the "what major can I take to get a 4.0 while still drinking and date raping sorority girls?" I mean, seriously, the most cake jobs are the one at the top of the ladder financially, in general.




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