Washington U Law Prof Implies Many Law Schools are Scams

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LincolnNebraska
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Washington U Law Prof Implies Many Law Schools are Scams

Postby LincolnNebraska » Mon Jun 14, 2010 7:00 pm

Regarding the current discontent with law schools by recent graduates, St. John's Professor writes, "Look past the occasional vulgarity and disgusting pictures. Don’t dismiss the posters as whiners. To a person they accept responsibility for their poor decisions. But they make a strong case that something is deeply wrong with law schools....Many graduates end up as temp attorneys working for $15 to $20 dollars an hour on two week gigs, with no benefits. The luckier graduates land jobs in government or small firms for maybe $45,000, with limited prospects for improvement...."

He also mentions the misreporting of employment figures by the law schools: "This dismal situation was not created by the current recession—which merely spread the pain up the chain into the lower reaches of elite schools. This has been going on for years.

The law graduates posting on these sites know the score. They know that law schools pad their employment figures..."

To read the rest: http://balkin.blogspot.com/2010/06/wake ... rs-to.html

I don't know if I agree with the professor, but this does make me uneasy. It's not some random loser who's saying this but a law professor, who has his own skin in the game.
Last edited by LincolnNebraska on Fri Jun 18, 2010 1:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Ender Wiggins
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Re: St. John's Professor: "Wake Up, Fellow Law Professors"

Postby Ender Wiggins » Mon Jun 14, 2010 7:14 pm

I second that emoticon! :shock:

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romothesavior
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Re: St. John's Professor: "Wake Up, Fellow Law Professors"

Postby romothesavior » Mon Jun 14, 2010 7:17 pm

Good post. But this shouldn't be a surprise to anyone on TLS.

Going to a school at sticker is a gamble, and it is a terrible decision outside of the top 20-30 schools. Going to school outside of T1 is a really big gamble, even with scholarships. The economy is terrible right now, and schools in saturated markets like St. John's, Brooklyn, Depaul, Kent, Loyola (both of them), American, etc. are bad investments.

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romothesavior
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Re: St. John's Professor: "Wake Up, Fellow Law Professors"

Postby romothesavior » Mon Jun 14, 2010 7:17 pm

I will say this though: one of the reasons LS costs so much is because profs like this guy live posh lifestyles with huge salaries. He shouldn't bite the hand that feeds him.

Ender Wiggins
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Re: St. John's Professor: "Wake Up, Fellow Law Professors"

Postby Ender Wiggins » Mon Jun 14, 2010 7:24 pm

romothesavior wrote:I will say this though: one of the reasons LS costs so much is because profs like this guy live posh lifestyles with huge salaries. He shouldn't bite the hand that feeds him.


Right on! I especially love how he thinks the entire enterprise can be saved if law profs stop going to so many dang conferences!

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goawaybee
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Re: St. John's Professor: "Wake Up, Fellow Law Professors"

Postby goawaybee » Mon Jun 14, 2010 8:25 pm

I have spent a great deal of time monitoring Univ. Prof. over the past decade. I am going to throw this number out there and say at least 50% of them are often bitter. I would say 2/5 profs of any discipline didn't engineer their career to be professors. Many went out into x,y,z field. Got smoked by the competition or just realized there was an easier way to get by. Then of course you put them in the world of academia and then they find something else to get grumpy about. These numbers I am creating are really floating b/c I really don't feel like running through an entire personality breakdown/list of all the profs from all the univ. I have known so I am just doing some edumacated guesstimation.

Just like everything else as it stands, most of these systems are not sustainable and need to be overhauled. Many people are excellent at complaining and on it goes. The reason law school costs so much is b/c it is a racket to some extent like most businesses out there. Gotta get that paper...stack it up, shit is getting expensive out there.

dude in the article did seem excessively jaded though, sure some of it is valid but hell man if it gets your drawers all twisted up in business like that just go out and start to address the problem or resign. Sure there is someone that would take your job for 1/2 your salary.

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romothesavior
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Re: St. John's Professor: "Wake Up, Fellow Law Professors"

Postby romothesavior » Mon Jun 14, 2010 10:18 pm

goawaybee wrote:I have spent a great deal of time monitoring Univ. Prof. over the past decade. I am going to throw this number out there and say at least 50% of them are often bitter. I would say 2/5 profs of any discipline didn't engineer their career to be professors. Many went out into x,y,z field. Got smoked by the competition or just realized there was an easier way to get by. Then of course you put them in the world of academia and then they find something else to get grumpy about. These numbers I am creating are really floating b/c I really don't feel like running through an entire personality breakdown/list of all the profs from all the univ. I have known so I am just doing some edumacated guesstimation.

Just like everything else as it stands, most of these systems are not sustainable and need to be overhauled. Many people are excellent at complaining and on it goes. The reason law school costs so much is b/c it is a racket to some extent like most businesses out there. Gotta get that paper...stack it up, shit is getting expensive out there.

dude in the article did seem excessively jaded though, sure some of it is valid but hell man if it gets your drawers all twisted up in business like that just go out and start to address the problem or resign. Sure there is someone that would take your job for 1/2 your salary.


No.

Being a law professor is one of the hardest things to do in your career. Much harder than getting biglaw, IMO. Almost all law professors, even those at lower ranked schools, have incredibly impressive pedigrees (Harvard, Yale, Stanford, etc.) The combination of pay, prestige, and high quality of life are practically unparalleled in the entire legal profession.

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gwuorbust
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Re: St. John's Professor: "Wake Up, Fellow Law Professors"

Postby gwuorbust » Mon Jun 14, 2010 10:31 pm

romothesavior wrote:
goawaybee wrote:I have spent a great deal of time monitoring Univ. Prof. over the past decade. I am going to throw this number out there and say at least 50% of them are often bitter. I would say 2/5 profs of any discipline didn't engineer their career to be professors. Many went out into x,y,z field. Got smoked by the competition or just realized there was an easier way to get by. Then of course you put them in the world of academia and then they find something else to get grumpy about. These numbers I am creating are really floating b/c I really don't feel like running through an entire personality breakdown/list of all the profs from all the univ. I have known so I am just doing some edumacated guesstimation.

Just like everything else as it stands, most of these systems are not sustainable and need to be overhauled. Many people are excellent at complaining and on it goes. The reason law school costs so much is b/c it is a racket to some extent like most businesses out there. Gotta get that paper...stack it up, shit is getting expensive out there.

dude in the article did seem excessively jaded though, sure some of it is valid but hell man if it gets your drawers all twisted up in business like that just go out and start to address the problem or resign. Sure there is someone that would take your job for 1/2 your salary.


No.

Being a law professor is one of the hardest things to do in your career. Much harder than getting biglaw, IMO. Almost all law professors, even those at lower ranked schools, have incredibly impressive pedigrees (Harvard, Yale, Stanford, etc.) The combination of pay, prestige, and high quality of life are practically unparalleled in the entire legal profession.


+1

law Pros typically come from the best of the schools. these are the people that, even if they had ranked at the bottom of their class, would not be making 45k a year involuntarily.

Ender Wiggins
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Re: St. John's Professor: "Wake Up, Fellow Law Professors"

Postby Ender Wiggins » Mon Jun 14, 2010 10:35 pm

[/quote]


No.

Being a law professor is one of the hardest things to do in your career. Much harder than getting biglaw, IMO. Almost all law professors, even those at lower ranked schools, have incredibly impressive pedigrees (Harvard, Yale, Stanford, etc.) The combination of pay, prestige, and high quality of life are practically unparalleled in the entire legal profession.[/quote]

+1

law Pros typically come from the best of the schools. these are the people that, even if they had ranked at the bottom of their class, would not be making 45k a year involuntarily.[/quote]

This is correct...I can tell you that all the profs at DePaul are from Yale (Greenie--taught by Bork), Northwestern (Roberts), Decker (NYU), Jacobs (Harvard--went to school with Ben Stein)...the list goes on. DePaul grads can't even teach the real classes, they only get brought in as adjuncts for legal writing or drafting classes.

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goawaybee
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Re: St. John's Professor: "Wake Up, Fellow Law Professors"

Postby goawaybee » Mon Jun 14, 2010 10:51 pm

goawaybee wrote:I I am just doing some edumacated guesstimation.


THIS + 5732

I mean lets be honest, how valid could an point really be if there are statements like this tucked in there. You TLS'ers so serious all the time. The pooh doesn't always have to stick to the wall. Just hang long enough to stimulate things, get some logical thinking going on, real world facts/figures something beyond random thoughts floating around a guys head who smashed himself in the head just hours prior with a 25lb T-post pounder.

shake it off, just gotta shake it off.

dude is talking about...an point, more meds Dr., yes damn it the big bottle by the sink, stop petting the F'in cat.

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tru
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Re: St. John's Professor: "Wake Up, Fellow Law Professors"

Postby tru » Tue Jun 15, 2010 3:15 am

.
Last edited by tru on Fri May 20, 2016 3:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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tru
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Re: St. John's Professor: "Wake Up, Fellow Law Professors"

Postby tru » Tue Jun 15, 2010 3:20 am

.
Last edited by tru on Fri May 20, 2016 3:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

LincolnNebraska
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Re: St. John's Professor: "Wake Up, Fellow Law Professors"

Postby LincolnNebraska » Tue Jun 15, 2010 7:22 pm

Does this make you more wary of going to law school?

Ender Wiggins
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Re: St. John's Professor: "Wake Up, Fellow Law Professors"

Postby Ender Wiggins » Tue Jun 15, 2010 7:26 pm

LincolnNebraska wrote:Does this make you more wary of going to law school?


Where was Professor Tamanaha when I was applying to DePaul?

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goawaybee
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Re: St. John's Professor: "Wake Up, Fellow Law Professors"

Postby goawaybee » Tue Jun 15, 2010 8:49 pm

LincolnNebraska wrote:Does this make you more wary of going to law school?


No.

Early on in life they told me i was a champ.

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When I was grown, I just decided I should pull the trigger and be relentless. I often view most decisions in life as the boar.

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twopoodles
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Re: St. John's Professor: "Wake Up, Fellow Law Professors"

Postby twopoodles » Wed Jun 16, 2010 1:33 am

OP, Did you just graduate from UNL? Do you think their employment numbers are greatly distorted?


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Mickey Quicknumbers
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Re: St. John's Professor: "Wake Up, Fellow Law Professors"

Postby Mickey Quicknumbers » Wed Jun 16, 2010 7:36 pm

goawaybee wrote:
goawaybee wrote:I I am just doing some edumacated guesstimation.


THIS + 5732

I mean lets be honest, how valid could an point really be if there are statements like this tucked in there. You TLS'ers so serious all the time. The pooh doesn't always have to stick to the wall. Just hang long enough to stimulate things, get some logical thinking going on, real world facts/figures something beyond random thoughts floating around a guys head who smashed himself in the head just hours prior with a 25lb T-post pounder.

shake it off, just gotta shake it off.

dude is talking about...an point, more meds Dr., yes damn it the big bottle by the sink, stop petting the F'in cat.

lol wut?

playboyhunk
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Re: St. John's Professor: "Wake Up, Fellow Law Professors"

Postby playboyhunk » Fri Jun 18, 2010 12:22 am

bump

LincolnNebraska
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Re: St. John's Professor: "Wake Up, Fellow Law Professors"

Postby LincolnNebraska » Fri Jun 18, 2010 9:21 am

Is anyone reading this?

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gwuorbust
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Re: St. John's Professor: "Wake Up, Fellow Law Professors"

Postby gwuorbust » Fri Jun 18, 2010 9:23 am

LincolnNebraska wrote:Is anyone reading this?


from the 787 views someone must be reading it. :roll:

LincolnNebraska
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Re: St. John's Professor: "Wake Up, Fellow Law Professors"

Postby LincolnNebraska » Fri Jun 18, 2010 12:18 pm

Good.

LincolnNebraska
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Re: Washington U Law Prof Implies Many Law Schools are Scams

Postby LincolnNebraska » Fri Jun 18, 2010 8:51 pm

Bump

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Mr. Matlock
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Re: Washington U Law Prof Implies Many Law Schools are Scams

Postby Mr. Matlock » Fri Jun 18, 2010 8:59 pm

LincolnNebraska wrote:Bump

Soooo.... what do you think about Big Red moving to the Big 10?

FirstTierToilet
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Re: Washington U Law Prof Implies Many Law Schools are Scams

Postby FirstTierToilet » Mon Jun 21, 2010 5:02 pm

There are certain issues that extend to the top tier schools.




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