Undergrad Prestige

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Quine
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Re: Undergrad Prestige

Postby Quine » Wed Jun 09, 2010 2:01 am

upwardtrend wrote:lol as far as my use of the word "measurably" - what i meant to say was that there is a difference in difficulty level, but im not really sure how much and that it probably varies from school to school. Whether my sentence made sense is not the topic at hand.


I'm surprised this is even an issue. With that first-rate education you should be schooling us "staties", as we humbly call ourselves.

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mallard
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Re: Undergrad Prestige

Postby mallard » Wed Jun 09, 2010 2:02 am

Bildungsroman wrote:
mallard wrote:
Bildungsroman wrote:ITT: mediocre students from higher-ranked universities disparage less prestigious schools in a last-ditch attempt to salvage some justification of their decision to sink tens of thousands of dollars into an education that won't benefit them in the law school applications process any more than if they had gone to a state school and gotten the same GPA for a fraction of the cost.

Going to a more prestigious undergrad program says nothing about your worth or your intelligence. I would like to invite all students from "top undergrads" that look down on state schools and their students to go fuck themselves while they wait for what will undoubtedly be a humbling law schools admissions cycle.


You've got some anger yourself. Actually, as we've outlined in this thread, top schools can be cheaper even than state schools for the right applicants.

Going to a good undergrad (I didn't) does say something about your intelligence.


Going to a good undergrad says nothing about your intelligence. It says something about how hard you worked in high school and how well you did on the SAT/ACT (which don't claim to measure intelligence and are very learnable).


lol. How'd you do on them? You seem very unhappy in this thread (and in a couple others where I've seen you). Is something troubling you lately?

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Quine
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Re: Undergrad Prestige

Postby Quine » Wed Jun 09, 2010 2:04 am

sharpnsmooth wrote:your friend is a once in a blue moon scenario. he is not representative of the AVERAGE middle class individual. my argument is about them on average being slightly less likely to send to a top UG. you were one example of somebody who didn't go because of finances... and now are going to a fairly expensive law school. Would you have went to that top UG in an economy where you knew a great bachelors would probably land a great job? i don't know, but it's possible. possible is more likely than not happening. the fact you presented one example (your friend) to combat my point is a bit absurd, no offense, in that the fact you mention one example does not mean that the population at large is like that. i never stated EVERYBODY. I stated ON AVERAGE. Unless your friend is so fat he's like 8 million people, he isn't the average.


What your rambling misses, with all of it's hedging, is that we were never talking about average in the first place.

upwardtrend
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Re: Undergrad Prestige

Postby upwardtrend » Wed Jun 09, 2010 2:05 am

Going to a T10 definitely says something about intelligence. I doubt anyone would argue against the thought that the average student from a T10 is decidedly more academically accomplished than the avg student at a typical state school.

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Quine
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Re: Undergrad Prestige

Postby Quine » Wed Jun 09, 2010 2:07 am

upwardtrend wrote:Going to a T10 definitely says something about intelligence. I doubt anyone would argue against the thought that the average student from a T10 is decidedly more academically accomplished than the avg student at a typical state school.


These are different things.

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Bildungsroman
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Re: Undergrad Prestige

Postby Bildungsroman » Wed Jun 09, 2010 2:07 am

mallard wrote:
Bildungsroman wrote:
mallard wrote:
Bildungsroman wrote:ITT: mediocre students from higher-ranked universities disparage less prestigious schools in a last-ditch attempt to salvage some justification of their decision to sink tens of thousands of dollars into an education that won't benefit them in the law school applications process any more than if they had gone to a state school and gotten the same GPA for a fraction of the cost.

Going to a more prestigious undergrad program says nothing about your worth or your intelligence. I would like to invite all students from "top undergrads" that look down on state schools and their students to go fuck themselves while they wait for what will undoubtedly be a humbling law schools admissions cycle.


You've got some anger yourself. Actually, as we've outlined in this thread, top schools can be cheaper even than state schools for the right applicants.

Going to a good undergrad (I didn't) does say something about your intelligence.


Going to a good undergrad says nothing about your intelligence. It says something about how hard you worked in high school and how well you did on the SAT/ACT (which don't claim to measure intelligence and are very learnable).


lol. How'd you do on them? You seem very unhappy in this thread (and in a couple others where I've seen you). Is something troubling you lately?


I'm fine. Maybe a little too much steam to blow off now that I don't have LSAT prep work to occupy my time and efforts, but I'm sure that will pass.

Also, I kicked ass on the SAT/ACT. But I'm not here to brag, because who gives a shit about high school standardized tests any more?


upwardtrend wrote:Going to a T10 definitely says something about intelligence. I doubt anyone would argue against the thought that the average student from a T10 is decidedly more academically accomplished than the avg student at a typical state school.


If this were an assumption question on the LSAT I would point out that this argument only makes sense if academic accomplishment is a measure of intelligence.

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mallard
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Re: Undergrad Prestige

Postby mallard » Wed Jun 09, 2010 2:08 am

Yes, but...

Look, I really don't think it's a stretch to say that people with average better softs, average higher GPAs, average higher standardized scores, etc. will tend to be, on average, more intelligent.

xyzzzzzzzz
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Re: Undergrad Prestige

Postby xyzzzzzzzz » Wed Jun 09, 2010 2:09 am

.
Last edited by xyzzzzzzzz on Thu Jul 08, 2010 11:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

sharpnsmooth
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Re: Undergrad Prestige

Postby sharpnsmooth » Wed Jun 09, 2010 2:09 am

Quine wrote:
sharpnsmooth wrote:
Quine wrote:
upwardtrend wrote:I am not sure to what extent there is a difference, I'm just arguing that the top 10 or 15 schools are measurably harder than average state schools. When you are at a T10 UG you are competing against people with 2100+ SATs who finished in the top 5 in their HS, while at average state schools your competition is far less. However, the benefits of attending a top UG are huge in my opinion. Its just my opinion, there is validity to both arguments.


You aren't "sure to what extent there is a difference." Yet, in the same breath, you assert "the top 10 or 15 schools are measurably harder than average state schools."

What's wrong with this?


he's not sure exactly how much... then concludes they're measurably (i.e. not sure) how much. what does measurably mean, quinn? it's a very ambiguous value... nothing logically incoherent about that wording.


"Measurably" means "not sure"? Really? That's new. According to the American Heritage dictionary it means "able to be measured" or "large enough to be measured; definite".


so what precisely would that mean?

how much is enough to be measured?

again, vagueness, vagueness, vagueness.

i know i am measurable, but i am not sure how much i weigh exactly.... just like the poster had suggested, and you seem very insecure about going to a state school. it's seriously not a big deal, dude. nobody cares. none of us are going to get jobs with just our bachelors in this economy that pay us bank. we're all equally screwed. don't be insecure, man.

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Re: Undergrad Prestige

Postby sharpnsmooth » Wed Jun 09, 2010 2:10 am

mallard wrote:Yes, but...

Look, I really don't think it's a stretch to say that people with average better softs, average higher GPAs, average higher standardized scores, etc. will tend to be, on average, more intelligent.


mensa does extend membership to those who score over a 172... id wear a t-shirt, but i don't want to start getting shoved into lockers at 24.

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Quine
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Re: Undergrad Prestige

Postby Quine » Wed Jun 09, 2010 2:10 am

xyzzzzzzzz wrote:this thread is basically a culture war. It seems like every couple days another one of these threads pops up. Someone needs to make a thread about how your gpa is your gpa, regardless of where you went and have it stickied. That way we don't have to keep hearing about how the kids at state schools are stupid and kids who went to schools ranked highly by a magazine are obviously smarter.


I tried. On the first page!

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Re: Undergrad Prestige

Postby sharpnsmooth » Wed Jun 09, 2010 2:12 am

You've got some anger yourself. Actually, as we've outlined in this thread, top schools can be cheaper even than state schools for the right applicants.

Going to a good undergrad (I didn't) does say something about your intelligence.[/quote]

Going to a good undergrad says nothing about your intelligence. It says something about how hard you worked in high school and how well you did on the SAT/ACT (which don't claim to measure intelligence and are very learnable).[/quote]

lol. How'd you do on them? You seem very unhappy in this thread (and in a couple others where I've seen you). Is something troubling you lately?[/quote]

I'm fine. Maybe a little too much steam to blow off now that I don't have LSAT prep work to occupy my time and efforts, but I'm sure that will pass.

Also, I kicked ass on the SAT/ACT. But I'm not here to brag, because who gives a shit about high school standardized tests any more?


upwardtrend wrote:Going to a T10 definitely says something about intelligence. I doubt anyone would argue against the thought that the average student from a T10 is decidedly more academically accomplished than the avg student at a typical state school.


If this were an assumption question on the LSAT I would point out that this argument only makes sense if academic accomplishment is a measure of intelligence.[/quote]

and mallard's statement, if true, would strengthen the argument.

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Quine
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Re: Undergrad Prestige

Postby Quine » Wed Jun 09, 2010 2:13 am

sharpnsmooth wrote:
mallard wrote:Yes, but...

Look, I really don't think it's a stretch to say that people with average better softs, average higher GPAs, average higher standardized scores, etc. will tend to be, on average, more intelligent.


mensa does extend membership to those who score over a 172... id wear a t-shirt, but i don't want to start getting shoved into lockers at 24.


If we're really normal... 1 in 50 people qualify for Mensa. I think I speak for intelligent people everywhere when I say, "fuck Mensa."

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Re: Undergrad Prestige

Postby sharpnsmooth » Wed Jun 09, 2010 2:13 am

Quine wrote:
xyzzzzzzzz wrote:this thread is basically a culture war. It seems like every couple days another one of these threads pops up. Someone needs to make a thread about how your gpa is your gpa, regardless of where you went and have it stickied. That way we don't have to keep hearing about how the kids at state schools are stupid and kids who went to schools ranked highly by a magazine are obviously smarter.


I tried. On the first page!


nobody has brought up smart vs. dumb, and it is out of place in this discussion. i talked about likely trends in the future, and whether the average american will see a top UG as a smart investment... smart and dumb are as out of scope in this argument as a woman randomly talking about her manicure in the middle of a debate on the oil spill.

upwardtrend
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Re: Undergrad Prestige

Postby upwardtrend » Wed Jun 09, 2010 2:15 am

This really is becoming a culture war. Im just saying that if you have the chance to go to a T10 you should take advantage of it because I think its a worthwhile experience. Whether you should actually become indebted in order to attend is another question, but overall I do think they have long-lasting benefits.

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Re: Undergrad Prestige

Postby sharpnsmooth » Wed Jun 09, 2010 2:16 am

Quine wrote:
sharpnsmooth wrote:
mallard wrote:Yes, but...

Look, I really don't think it's a stretch to say that people with average better softs, average higher GPAs, average higher standardized scores, etc. will tend to be, on average, more intelligent.


mensa does extend membership to those who score over a 172... id wear a t-shirt, but i don't want to start getting shoved into lockers at 24.


If we're really normal... 1 in 50 people qualify for Mensa. I think I speak for intelligent people everywhere when I say, "fuck Mensa."


that would be 99. i believe a 170 would be 50. but this is 99% out of those who took the LSAT, which i'd imagine the 150 is smarter than the average american being you are 99% of the time a college grad or going to be. you're inherently dealing with a smarter than average part of the population.

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Quine
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Re: Undergrad Prestige

Postby Quine » Wed Jun 09, 2010 2:17 am

sharpnsmooth wrote:nobody has brought up smart vs. dumb, and it is out of place in this discussion. i talked about likely trends in the future, and whether the average american will see a top UG as a smart investment... smart and dumb are as out of scope in this argument as a woman randomly talking about her manicure in the middle of a debate on the oil spill.


Dude, you started this thread seeking validation. Now you've taken on populist overtones in a poor attempt to win-back forum-cred.

xyzzzzzzzz
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Re: Undergrad Prestige

Postby xyzzzzzzzz » Wed Jun 09, 2010 2:17 am

.
Last edited by xyzzzzzzzz on Thu Jul 08, 2010 11:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

09042014
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Re: Undergrad Prestige

Postby 09042014 » Wed Jun 09, 2010 2:18 am

upwardtrend wrote:Going to a T10 definitely says something about intelligence. I doubt anyone would argue against the thought that the average student from a T10 is decidedly more academically accomplished than the avg student at a typical state school.


Academically accomplished? How many undergrads are academically accomplished at all?

upwardtrend
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Re: Undergrad Prestige

Postby upwardtrend » Wed Jun 09, 2010 2:19 am

sharpnsmooth wrote:
Quine wrote:
sharpnsmooth wrote:
mallard wrote:Yes, but...

Look, I really don't think it's a stretch to say that people with average better softs, average higher GPAs, average higher standardized scores, etc. will tend to be, on average, more intelligent.


mensa does extend membership to those who score over a 172... id wear a t-shirt, but i don't want to start getting shoved into lockers at 24.


If we're really normal... 1 in 50 people qualify for Mensa. I think I speak for intelligent people everywhere when I say, "fuck Mensa."


that would be 99. i believe a 170 would be 50. but this is 99% out of those who took the LSAT, which i'd imagine the 150 is smarter than the average american being you are 99% of the time a college grad or going to be. you're inherently dealing with a smarter than average part of the population.


its not hard to just graduate college though, a lot of those taking the LSAT went to average state schools

upwardtrend
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Re: Undergrad Prestige

Postby upwardtrend » Wed Jun 09, 2010 2:20 am

academically accomplished as in they were ranked high in class, good LORs, etc...not accomplished in the field of academia

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Quine
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Re: Undergrad Prestige

Postby Quine » Wed Jun 09, 2010 2:20 am

sharpnsmooth wrote:
Quine wrote:
sharpnsmooth wrote:
mallard wrote:Yes, but...

Look, I really don't think it's a stretch to say that people with average better softs, average higher GPAs, average higher standardized scores, etc. will tend to be, on average, more intelligent.


mensa does extend membership to those who score over a 172... id wear a t-shirt, but i don't want to start getting shoved into lockers at 24.


If we're really normal... 1 in 50 people qualify for Mensa. I think I speak for intelligent people everywhere when I say, "fuck Mensa."


that would be 99. i believe a 170 would be 50. but this is 99% out of those who took the LSAT, which i'd imagine the 150 is smarter than the average american being you are 99% of the time a college grad or going to be. you're inherently dealing with a smarter than average part of the population.


Did they teach you how to use the internet at your expensive undergrad? Mensa takes 98th percentile and above, and they reach down to the 95th percentile on the LSAT - it's on their website.

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Quine
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Re: Undergrad Prestige

Postby Quine » Wed Jun 09, 2010 2:21 am

sharpnsmooth wrote:that would be 99. i believe a 170 would be 50. but this is 99% out of those who took the LSAT, which i'd imagine the 150 is smarter than the average american being you are 99% of the time a college grad or going to be. you're inherently dealing with a smarter than average part of the population.


Did they teach you how to use the internet at your expensive undergrad? Mensa takes 98th percentile and above, and they reach down to the 95th percentile on the LSAT - it's on their website.


Edit: My bad - double post.
Last edited by Quine on Wed Jun 09, 2010 2:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

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mallard
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Re: Undergrad Prestige

Postby mallard » Wed Jun 09, 2010 2:21 am

I've read that the average college graduate is a full standard deviation more intelligent than the average American, but I'm not sure how such a claim could be substantiated or if it's true. But I think that while it might be close to true that just about anybody can graduate from college, it's not true that just about everybody does.

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Re: Undergrad Prestige

Postby xyzzzzzzzz » Wed Jun 09, 2010 2:22 am

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Last edited by xyzzzzzzzz on Thu Jul 08, 2010 11:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.




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