Hey 0Ls! Prove to me that law school is a wise investment.

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keg411
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Re: Hey 0Ls! Prove to me that law school is a wise investment.

Postby keg411 » Wed Jun 09, 2010 10:52 am

BaiAilian2013 wrote:
mallard wrote:But few people should go in without having done a full and honest assessment of those other options or without having given real thought to how they'll like law school, how they'll like law, where they'll end up afterwards, etc.

I guess the thing that gets me about OP is that I feel like a lot of regular posters on TLS have done this. The law students I know irl sure have. For me, becoming a 0L has been a long road, full of interrogations and flowcharts, and I just don't think I'm unique in that regard.
Since I think romo was the only person to answer OPs question, I'll play too: debt won't be crippling, the school in question is still a good bet IMO, and law is probably the only career I have a hope of succeeding in.


You aren't.

BTW, my answer is to OP's question: I'm going for cheap and I have lawyer immediate family that have promised me that they will make sure I'm not unemployed :).

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romothesavior
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Re: Hey 0Ls! Prove to me that law school is a wise investment.

Postby romothesavior » Wed Jun 09, 2010 10:53 am

Genuinely curious... but what was said in this thread that warrants a warning? A little ribbing back and forth? What rules were broken?

I'm not questioning your "author-it-aaah," I'm just wondering.

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PKSebben
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Re: Hey 0Ls! Prove to me that law school is a wise investment.

Postby PKSebben » Wed Jun 09, 2010 10:53 am

*swish*

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T14_Scholly
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Re: Hey 0Ls! Prove to me that law school is a wise investment.

Postby T14_Scholly » Wed Jun 09, 2010 10:53 am

Just fyi to all the people in this thread, the logic that "I'm a liberal arts major and there are no jobs, therefore I have to go to law school" is not a well thought-out reason to go to law school.

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webbylu87
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Re: Hey 0Ls! Prove to me that law school is a wise investment.

Postby webbylu87 » Wed Jun 09, 2010 10:54 am

T14_Scholly wrote:Just fyi to all the people in this thread, the logic that "I'm a liberal arts major and there are no jobs, therefore I have to go to law school" is not a well thought-out reason to go to law school.


Holy shit. Really?

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T14_Scholly
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Re: Hey 0Ls! Prove to me that law school is a wise investment.

Postby T14_Scholly » Wed Jun 09, 2010 10:57 am

webbylu87 wrote:
T14_Scholly wrote:Just fyi to all the people in this thread, the logic that "I'm a liberal arts major and there are no jobs, therefore I have to go to law school" is not a well thought-out reason to go to law school.


Holy shit. Really?


Don't pretend there is no one in this thread who is making that assumption.

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CG614
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Re: Hey 0Ls! Prove to me that law school is a wise investment.

Postby CG614 » Wed Jun 09, 2010 10:58 am

PKSebben wrote:*swish*

OK, you hit your 16 mark, I am done being feisty.

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webbylu87
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Re: Hey 0Ls! Prove to me that law school is a wise investment.

Postby webbylu87 » Wed Jun 09, 2010 10:58 am

T14_Scholly wrote:
webbylu87 wrote:
T14_Scholly wrote:Just fyi to all the people in this thread, the logic that "I'm a liberal arts major and there are no jobs, therefore I have to go to law school" is not a well thought-out reason to go to law school.


Holy shit. Really?


Don't pretend there is no one in this thread who is making that assumption.


Fair.

miamiman
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Re: Hey 0Ls! Prove to me that law school is a wise investment.

Postby miamiman » Wed Jun 09, 2010 10:58 am

T14_Scholly wrote:Just fyi to all the people in this thread, the logic that "I'm a liberal arts major and there are no jobs, therefore I have to go to law school" is not a well thought-out reason to go to law school.


Depending upon the school you enroll at, it's not necessarily a horrible one.

I know I'll catch flack for this post but so be it. The "I'm not getting much traction out of my BA from xyz college" definitely applies to me. Granted, it wasn't the proximate cause of my application to law school specifically but it certainly factored into the timing.

d34d9823
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Re: Hey 0Ls! Prove to me that law school is a wise investment.

Postby d34d9823 » Wed Jun 09, 2010 11:00 am

miamiman wrote:
T14_Scholly wrote:Just fyi to all the people in this thread, the logic that "I'm a liberal arts major and there are no jobs, therefore I have to go to law school" is not a well thought-out reason to go to law school.


Depending upon the school you enroll at, it's not necessarily a horrible one.

I know I'll catch flack for this post but so be it. The "I'm not getting much traction out of my BA from xyz college" definitely applies to me. Granted, it wasn't the proximate cause of my application to law school specifically but it certainly factored into the timing.

I agree. You should put some thought into it, but if you have no chance at a good job with your BA, why not go to law school assuming you can get into a good school?

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webbylu87
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Re: Hey 0Ls! Prove to me that law school is a wise investment.

Postby webbylu87 » Wed Jun 09, 2010 11:01 am

d34dluk3 wrote:
miamiman wrote:
T14_Scholly wrote:Just fyi to all the people in this thread, the logic that "I'm a liberal arts major and there are no jobs, therefore I have to go to law school" is not a well thought-out reason to go to law school.


Depending upon the school you enroll at, it's not necessarily a horrible one.

I know I'll catch flack for this post but so be it. The "I'm not getting much traction out of my BA from xyz college" definitely applies to me. Granted, it wasn't the proximate cause of my application to law school specifically but it certainly factored into the timing.

I agree. You should put some thought into it, but if you have no chance at a good job with your BA, why not go to law school assuming you can get into a good school?


...and then we return to the discussion of what is and is not a good school/investment.

keg411
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Re: Hey 0Ls! Prove to me that law school is a wise investment.

Postby keg411 » Wed Jun 09, 2010 11:10 am

d34dluk3 wrote:
miamiman wrote:
T14_Scholly wrote:Just fyi to all the people in this thread, the logic that "I'm a liberal arts major and there are no jobs, therefore I have to go to law school" is not a well thought-out reason to go to law school.


Depending upon the school you enroll at, it's not necessarily a horrible one.

I know I'll catch flack for this post but so be it. The "I'm not getting much traction out of my BA from xyz college" definitely applies to me. Granted, it wasn't the proximate cause of my application to law school specifically but it certainly factored into the timing.

I agree. You should put some thought into it, but if you have no chance at a good job with your BA, why not go to law school assuming you can get into a good school?


You end up questioning your choice anyway because you don't know if you want to practice. You think that you are going to have a choice of jobs when you get to your good school and then realize that you may have to hustle just as much as those who go to low-ranked schools, which ends up being disappointed as you thought by going to your top school you'd get a nice 160k job handed to you on a silver platter. And even if you get that "sweet" BigLaw job, you have the "pleasure" of 80 hour work weeks.

To Mallard: aren't you at the top of your class at your YHS school? I seriously wouldn't get too stressed. Yes there are horror stories even at the top, but you should really spend this summer taking in your 1L job and learning about what the practice of law entails (or if you are RA'ing, develop a good relationship with the professor which will help you in the long run). Just because you came in unprepared doesn't mean you have to remain that way.

miamiman
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Re: Hey 0Ls! Prove to me that law school is a wise investment.

Postby miamiman » Wed Jun 09, 2010 11:17 am

keg411 wrote:You end up questioning your choice anyway because you don't know if you want to practice. You think that you are going to have a choice of jobs when you get to your good school and then realize that you may have to hustle just as much as those who go to low-ranked schools, which ends up being disappointed as you thought by going to your top school you'd get a nice 160k job handed to you on a silver platter. And even if you get that "sweet" BigLaw job, you have the "pleasure" of 80 hour work weeks.

To Mallard: aren't you at the top of your class at your YHS school? I seriously wouldn't get too stressed. Yes there are horror stories even at the top, but you should really spend this summer taking in your 1L job and learning about what the practice of law entails (or if you are RA'ing, develop a good relationship with the professor which will help you in the long run). Just because you came in unprepared doesn't mean you have to remain that way.


In fairness, don't you question the decision equally, if not more, when you attend a T2/T3/T4, can't land any decent legal position, and have a mountain of debt staring you in the face upon graduation?

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webbylu87
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Re: Hey 0Ls! Prove to me that law school is a wise investment.

Postby webbylu87 » Wed Jun 09, 2010 11:24 am

keg411 wrote:
d34dluk3 wrote:
miamiman wrote:
T14_Scholly wrote:Just fyi to all the people in this thread, the logic that "I'm a liberal arts major and there are no jobs, therefore I have to go to law school" is not a well thought-out reason to go to law school.


Depending upon the school you enroll at, it's not necessarily a horrible one.

I know I'll catch flack for this post but so be it. The "I'm not getting much traction out of my BA from xyz college" definitely applies to me. Granted, it wasn't the proximate cause of my application to law school specifically but it certainly factored into the timing.

I agree. You should put some thought into it, but if you have no chance at a good job with your BA, why not go to law school assuming you can get into a good school?


You end up questioning your choice anyway because you don't know if you want to practice. You think that you are going to have a choice of jobs when you get to your good school and then realize that you may have to hustle just as much as those who go to low-ranked schools, which ends up being disappointed as you thought by going to your top school you'd get a nice 160k job handed to you on a silver platter. And even if you get that "sweet" BigLaw job, you have the "pleasure" of 80 hour work weeks.

To Mallard: aren't you at the top of your class at your YHS school? I seriously wouldn't get too stressed. Yes there are horror stories even at the top, but you should really spend this summer taking in your 1L job and learning about what the practice of law entails (or if you are RA'ing, develop a good relationship with the professor which will help you in the long run). Just because you came in unprepared doesn't mean you have to remain that way.


I find it hard to believe that even people who have truly thought out their law ambitions don't have these crises once in a while. I think second guessing and self-doubt, particularly if you're investing huge amounts of your time and money is quite normal regardless of your initial confidence in your decision. The crucial difference between someone who has thought it all out and someone who has not is the ability to bring yourself back to your initial reasoning for making your decision and having the confidence in yourself to do so.

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manbearwig
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Re: Hey 0Ls! Prove to me that law school is a wise investment.

Postby manbearwig » Wed Jun 09, 2010 11:31 am

miamiman wrote:
T14_Scholly wrote:Just fyi to all the people in this thread, the logic that "I'm a liberal arts major and there are no jobs, therefore I have to go to law school" is not a well thought-out reason to go to law school.


Depending upon the school you enroll at, it's not necessarily a horrible one.

I know I'll catch flack for this post but so be it. The "I'm not getting much traction out of my BA from xyz college" definitely applies to me. Granted, it wasn't the proximate cause of my application to law school specifically but it certainly factored into the timing.


I'll totally admit it as well. I've always considered law school, and with the economy, why should I fight the economy looking for a job for a few years when I could just go straight to law school?

(Plus, I'm getting a full ride at a top regional school in the region I want to practice, and I have parents helping me with COL. I'm in a damn good position, and I'm fortunate for that.)

keg411
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Re: Hey 0Ls! Prove to me that law school is a wise investment.

Postby keg411 » Wed Jun 09, 2010 11:32 am

miamiman wrote:In fairness, don't you question the decision equally, if not more, when you attend a T2/T3/T4, can't land any decent legal position, and have a mountain of debt staring you in the face upon graduation?


But that's the obvious answer (however, you should also include T1's in your list. Before ranked 50 doesn't make law school a good choice... case in point: American, Tulane, Wake, WUSTL/ND/GW/BU/BC@sticker when you don't want the primary market the school serves, etc...) The conventional wisdom is of course to question those decisions of people who attend those schools. But that doesn't mean there aren't going to be top kids that end up disappointed and doesn't mean it's smart to go to school for the same "bad" reasons. Just because you are going to a top school doesn't mean you shouldn't do your research.

ETA: Obviously everyone has crises and self-doubt. That's normal. And why I told mallard to "relax" because he is in a good position :). But there are some people that really despise BigLaw (including a very good friend of mine who pretty much had a nervous breakdown and quit).

miamiman
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Re: Hey 0Ls! Prove to me that law school is a wise investment.

Postby miamiman » Wed Jun 09, 2010 11:41 am

keg411 wrote:
miamiman wrote:In fairness, don't you question the decision equally, if not more, when you attend a T2/T3/T4, can't land any decent legal position, and have a mountain of debt staring you in the face upon graduation?


But that's the obvious answer (however, you should also include T1's in your list. Before ranked 50 doesn't make law school a good choice... case in point: American, Tulane, Wake, WUSTL/ND/GW/BU/BC@sticker when you don't want the primary market the school serves, etc...) The conventional wisdom is of course to question those decisions of people who attend those schools. But that doesn't mean there aren't going to be top kids that end up disappointed and doesn't mean it's smart to go to school for the same "bad" reasons. Just because you are going to a top school doesn't mean you shouldn't do your research.

ETA: Obviously everyone has crises and self-doubt. That's normal. And why I told mallard to "relax" because he is in a good position :). But there are some people that really despise BigLaw (including a very good friend of mine who pretty much had a nervous breakdown and quit).


straw man much?

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joeshmo39
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Re: Hey 0Ls! Prove to me that law school is a wise investment.

Postby joeshmo39 » Wed Jun 09, 2010 11:45 am

Psh, this an easy question:

I have a friend, and his dad is a lawyer. He went to *insert poorly regarded T4 here* and he's making *at least mid 6 if not over 7 figure salary*. Also, I'm going to work hard and stuff.

d34d9823
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Re: Hey 0Ls! Prove to me that law school is a wise investment.

Postby d34d9823 » Wed Jun 09, 2010 11:45 am

The irony of this whole argument is that the people who have done their research are here arguing about it, while the people who haven't are blissfully unaware of the doomsayers.

miamiman
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Re: Hey 0Ls! Prove to me that law school is a wise investment.

Postby miamiman » Wed Jun 09, 2010 11:46 am

d34dluk3 wrote:The irony of this whole argument is that the people who have done their research are here arguing about it, while the people who haven't are blissfully unaware of the doomsayers.



are you applying next year or starting?

09042014
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Re: Hey 0Ls! Prove to me that law school is a wise investment.

Postby 09042014 » Wed Jun 09, 2010 11:47 am

d34dluk3 wrote:The irony of this whole argument is that the people who have done their research are here arguing about it, while the people who haven't are blissfully unaware of the doomsayers.


LOL, some guy at NU ASW had no idea the market was bad. Got lucky though, would have been class of 2011, but deferred two years.

miamiman
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Re: Hey 0Ls! Prove to me that law school is a wise investment.

Postby miamiman » Wed Jun 09, 2010 11:49 am

Desert Fox wrote:
d34dluk3 wrote:The irony of this whole argument is that the people who have done their research are here arguing about it, while the people who haven't are blissfully unaware of the doomsayers.


LOL, some guy at NU ASW had no idea the market was bad. Got lucky though, would have been class of 2011, but deferred two years.


how can you not know? seriously. i mean even laypeople that I work with have cautioned me against going to law school because they read on Yahoo News, the Miami Herald, blah blah blah, how bad it was. I'm talking about people who barely have a college education and make 35k a year.

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HazelEyes
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Re: Hey 0Ls! Prove to me that law school is a wise investment.

Postby HazelEyes » Wed Jun 09, 2010 11:50 am

Why must we prove that law school is a wise investment? Everyone is looking for something different out of school and everyone will settle for something different.

Some people will pay sticker anywhere, even at a T4, some won't even pay sticker for Harvard.
Some people want to make upwards of 250K, and some people will settle for less than 50K.
Some people want Biglaw and some will work as ACS (family court) lawyers.

The only person you need to account to is yourself.

Seriously getting tired of TLS's pretentious crap.

Also, getting tired of certain people continuously gloating about the job waiting for them after law school. We get the point, you're graduating debt free and will have a nice job waiting. Now stop throwing it in our faces in EVERY post.

d34d9823
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Re: Hey 0Ls! Prove to me that law school is a wise investment.

Postby d34d9823 » Wed Jun 09, 2010 11:53 am

miamiman wrote:
d34dluk3 wrote:The irony of this whole argument is that the people who have done their research are here arguing about it, while the people who haven't are blissfully unaware of the doomsayers.



are you applying next year or starting?

Applying this fall.

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romothesavior
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Re: Hey 0Ls! Prove to me that law school is a wise investment.

Postby romothesavior » Wed Jun 09, 2010 11:56 am

HazelEyes wrote:Why must we prove that law school is a wise investment? Everyone is looking for something different out of school and everyone will settle for something different.

Some people will pay sticker anywhere, even at a T4, some won't even pay sticker for Harvard.
Some people want to make upwards of 250K, and some people will settle for less than 50K.
Some people want Biglaw and some will work as ACS (family court) lawyers.

The only person you need to account to is yourself.

Seriously getting tired of TLS's pretentious crap.

Also, getting tired of certain people continuously gloating about the job waiting for them after law school. We get the point, you're graduating debt free and will have a nice job waiting. Now stop throwing it in our faces in EVERY post.


I don't think people mind when other people have different goals, different degrees of risk aversion, etc. The reason people warn others that they are making a mistake is because the other people are often are disconnected from reality. Why on earth would someone pay sticker at a T4? The answer: They think it is a good financial investment. It is clearly not.

Also, while I agree with you that certain factors are very subjective, I do think financial questions have a bit more objectivity to them. Focusing on biglaw is silly, I agree... many people do not want biglaw. But when we're talking about the inability to get very basic, very menial, very low paying jobs, then I think we can objectively say it is a bad decision.




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