Admissions Consultant

(Applications Advice, Letters of Recommendation . . . )
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rcharles
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Admissions Consultant

Postby rcharles » Mon Jun 07, 2010 5:12 pm

My cycle was terrible.

With a 164/3.9 the best offer I received was a half-tuition scholly to a 2nd tier school ranked in the 70's. I applied to over 15 schools some ranked significantly lower than said school and some much higher.
I am thinking my criminal record from 7-plus years ago have sabotaged my cycle. I had to disclose about 5 misdemeanors but no felonies and not all convictions. Still, it seems those incidents have certainly had an negative effect on my admissions cycle. On the charts on LSN I am usually a yellow square in a sea of green triangles where I was expecting $$$.
I think because of my unique situation maybe I should talk things over with a law school admissions consultant. I would be willing to put off law school another year if they think they could help me live up to my numbers.

Does anybody know of any reputable consultants or had any personal dealings with a firm they would recommend or advise against? Any other advice?

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trialjunky
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Re: Admissions Consultant

Postby trialjunky » Mon Jun 07, 2010 5:13 pm

When did you apply and is your PS a POS?

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holydonkey
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Re: Admissions Consultant

Postby holydonkey » Mon Jun 07, 2010 5:16 pm

rcharles wrote:Does anybody know of any reputable consultants or had any personal dealings with a firm they would recommend or advise against? Any other advice?
It does sound like a consultant might actually be worthwhile here. If you're going to reapply, retake the LSAT as well.

GermX
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Re: Admissions Consultant

Postby GermX » Mon Jun 07, 2010 5:26 pm

Wow thats's so sad, with your scores you could get into a T-14 for crying out loud, maybe even GW too.

HBK
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Re: Admissions Consultant

Postby HBK » Mon Jun 07, 2010 5:36 pm

What were the misdemeanors? DUI? MIP? Drugs? Assaults? Stalking? Domestic Violence? Theft?

DUIs or MIPs I don't think would be that big of a hiccup. I mean 7 years have passed, it must have been something pretty bad, or your PS sucked.

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kalvano
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Re: Admissions Consultant

Postby kalvano » Mon Jun 07, 2010 5:38 pm

rcharles wrote:My cycle was terrible.

With a 164/3.9 the best offer I received was a half-tuition scholly to a 2nd tier school ranked in the 70's. I applied to over 15 schools some ranked significantly lower than said school and some much higher.
I am thinking my criminal record from 7-plus years ago have sabotaged my cycle. I had to disclose about 5 misdemeanors but no felonies and not all convictions. Still, it seems those incidents have certainly had an negative effect on my admissions cycle. On the charts on LSN I am usually a yellow square in a sea of green triangles where I was expecting $$$.
I think because of my unique situation maybe I should talk things over with a law school admissions consultant. I would be willing to put off law school another year if they think they could help me live up to my numbers.

Does anybody know of any reputable consultants or had any personal dealings with a firm they would recommend or advise against? Any other advice?



When did you apply? Because I have the same LSAT / much lower GPA, and was offered money at several T1 schools and WL'ed at some other T30 schools (which I think was entirely due to my GPA).

And I had a ton of traffic tickets, etc.

CanadianWolf
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Re: Admissions Consultant

Postby CanadianWolf » Mon Jun 07, 2010 6:20 pm

Would help to know what the five misdemeanor charges & resolutions were.
Admission to law school is one hurdle, then passing the bar character & fitness evaluation is the next concern.
I do not think that you should be seeking a law school admissions consultant; in my opinion, you need to seek out an attorney that specializes in bar disciplinary actions. A law school admissions consultant will be less expensive, but may not be effective unless that consultant has an unusually close working relationship with some key people in state government for publicly supported law schools or admissions officers at specific law school that are of interest to you. This would only help for law school admissions, however. But your biggest hurdle is not law school admissions, it is clearance to sit for & become a member of a state bar.

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rcharles
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Re: Admissions Consultant

Postby rcharles » Mon Jun 07, 2010 7:22 pm

trialjunky wrote:When did you apply and is your PS a POS?


I applied to most schools in Nov. but the LSAT score came in Feb. (up from 159 in Jun 2009).

I thought my PS was good. It was risky, in that I used an extracurricular endeavor to metaphorically explain a diverse upbringing, and in turn my criminal background. I think it was well written however. I don't consider writing a weakness for me. I am a working print-journalist I have 2-3 articles published every day...

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rcharles
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Re: Admissions Consultant

Postby rcharles » Mon Jun 07, 2010 7:26 pm

HBK wrote:What were the misdemeanors? DUI? MIP? Drugs? Assaults? Stalking? Domestic Violence? Theft?

DUIs or MIPs I don't think would be that big of a hiccup. I mean 7 years have passed, it must have been something pretty bad, or your PS sucked.


1 DUI in 1997, I was a teenager.
3 public intox/open container type offenses.
2 assault-type incidents both of which the charges were essentially dropped or unfounded.

So i guess 6 offenses...

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romothesavior
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Re: Admissions Consultant

Postby romothesavior » Mon Jun 07, 2010 7:27 pm

Don't get a consultant. Get a higher LSAT.

Almost any conceivable question you might have could be answered right here on TLS. Go to the LSAT threads for LSAT advice, post your PS in the PS forums for critique, and ask general questions on all things admissions-related.

CanadianWolf
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Re: Admissions Consultant

Postby CanadianWolf » Mon Jun 07, 2010 7:29 pm

The dates for each incident or charge are important. All lumped together during a teenage period of significant personal & family turbulence, or spread out over a number of years ?

keg411
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Re: Admissions Consultant

Postby keg411 » Mon Jun 07, 2010 7:50 pm

rcharles wrote:
trialjunky wrote:When did you apply and is your PS a POS?


I applied to most schools in Nov. but the LSAT score came in Feb. (up from 159 in Jun 2009).

I thought my PS was good. It was risky, in that I used an extracurricular endeavor to metaphorically explain a diverse upbringing, and in turn my criminal background. I think it was well written however. I don't consider writing a weakness for me. I am a working print-journalist I have 2-3 articles published every day...


The bolded is why your cycle didn't go well. I had the same issue (though my first LSAT was higher).

februaryftw
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Re: Admissions Consultant

Postby februaryftw » Mon Jun 07, 2010 8:33 pm

The misdemeanors might hurt you a bit but if they are 7 years old etc. they shouldn't kill your cycle. Nothing on your record is too terrible.

The February score is what killed you. Re-apply early and you're looking at a whole different cycle. Your LSAT score this cycle was basically a 159. I'd also reconsider the "risky" PS, unless you use it for reach schools and use a safe PS for your targets.

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kalvano
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Re: Admissions Consultant

Postby kalvano » Mon Jun 07, 2010 9:25 pm

Re-apply in November and it will go much better.

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rcharles
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Re: Admissions Consultant

Postby rcharles » Mon Jun 07, 2010 9:34 pm

keg411 wrote:
rcharles wrote:
trialjunky wrote:When did you apply and is your PS a POS?


I applied to most schools in Nov. but the LSAT score came in Feb. (up from 159 in Jun 2009).

I thought my PS was good. It was risky, in that I used an extracurricular endeavor to metaphorically explain a diverse upbringing, and in turn my criminal background. I think it was well written however. I don't consider writing a weakness for me. I am a working print-journalist I have 2-3 articles published every day...


The bolded is why your cycle didn't go well. I had the same issue (though my first LSAT was higher).


Maybe so I have a few reasons to suspect otherwise:

With the original 159/3.9 I was waitlisted at Florida International and flat out rejected from Stetson. I'm pretty much well above 75th percentile at both institutions. Stetson told me straight up it was my disclosures that earned me the ding. (Alabama also told me this as well and I have been waitlisted there).

I also applied a few places after taking in Feb. since I was already starting to panic. One was Seattle where I'm still pending.
The other was OleMiss. I called after their deadline and I asked if I could apply late. They asked me my numbers and sounded very impressed. I even told them about my rap sheet but they told me to fill out an application anyway.
I was rejected shortly thereafter...

I'm wondering if I could have been more tactful in how I described the incidents?

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romothesavior
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Re: Admissions Consultant

Postby romothesavior » Mon Jun 07, 2010 9:36 pm

rcharles wrote:
keg411 wrote:
rcharles wrote:
trialjunky wrote:When did you apply and is your PS a POS?


I applied to most schools in Nov. but the LSAT score came in Feb. (up from 159 in Jun 2009).

I thought my PS was good. It was risky, in that I used an extracurricular endeavor to metaphorically explain a diverse upbringing, and in turn my criminal background. I think it was well written however. I don't consider writing a weakness for me. I am a working print-journalist I have 2-3 articles published every day...


The bolded is why your cycle didn't go well. I had the same issue (though my first LSAT was higher).


Maybe so I have a few reasons to suspect otherwise:

With the original 159/3.9 I was waitlisted at Florida International and flat out rejected from Stetson. I'm pretty much well above 75th percentile at both institutions. Stetson told me straight up it was my disclosures that earned me the ding. (Alabama also told me this as well and I have been waitlisted there).

I also applied a few places after taking in Feb. since I was already starting to panic. One was Seattle where I'm still pending.
The other was OleMiss. I called after their deadline and I asked if I could apply late. They asked me my numbers and sounded very impressed. I even told them about my rap sheet but they told me to fill out an application anyway.
I was rejected shortly thereafter...

I'm wondering if I could have been more tactful in how I described the incidents?


I actually agree with you and disagree with the other posters who are minimizing the effects of your record. I know none of them are horrible and they were all a while ago, but it is a far worse record than the vast majority of law school applicants, so it is not a surprise that schools are hesitant.

How did you describe them before?

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kalvano
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Re: Admissions Consultant

Postby kalvano » Mon Jun 07, 2010 9:43 pm

Re-write your disclosure.

Start with "Good news! I haven't killed anyone!"

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rcharles
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Re: Admissions Consultant

Postby rcharles » Mon Jun 07, 2010 9:55 pm

trialjunky wrote:
I actually agree with you and disagree with the other posters who are minimizing the effects of your record. I know none of them are horrible and they were all a while ago, but it is a far worse record than the vast majority of law school applicants, so it is not a surprise that schools are hesitant.

How did you describe them before?


I tried to do so as straightforward as possible but each situation was unique.

One of the assaults for example, was completely embellished. I was apprehended for the incident but never found guilty. I remained adamant in my denial of the charges in the incident description. In the other assault, the charges were dropped. I was essentially arrested for scratching my ex's finger trying to get my car keys from her.

I can imagine what goes through your mind as you read this, and more importantly what went through the adcomms mind when they did. That's why I wonder if I could have presented everything more effectively. It's really embarassing and In my PS I basically took full responsibilty for associating with the wrong people (including some crazy ex-girlfriends).

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MrKappus
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Re: Admissions Consultant

Postby MrKappus » Mon Jun 07, 2010 10:04 pm

rcharles wrote:(including some crazy ex-girlfriends).


This actually sounds like the opposite of taking responsibility.

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rcharles
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Re: Admissions Consultant

Postby rcharles » Mon Jun 07, 2010 10:07 pm

MrKappus wrote:
rcharles wrote:(including some crazy ex-girlfriends).


This actually sounds like the opposite of taking responsibility.


Well of course but I didn't actually say that, I'm only qualifying it in this forum.

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trialjunky
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Re: Admissions Consultant

Postby trialjunky » Mon Jun 07, 2010 11:22 pm

kalvano wrote:Re-write your disclosure.

Start with "Good news! I haven't killed anyone!"



LMAO

I would say you need to apply as early as possible with your new LSAT. I would apply everywherre!!!
Do you have a LSAC waiver? Also, like romo said, submit your PS and disclosure (with identifying information x'ed out) for people to review and give critique. Quite frankly, it's not so much that you have a record it's that you have so much on your record that is the problem. Every thing else needs to be perfect!

Pearalegal
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Re: Admissions Consultant

Postby Pearalegal » Mon Jun 07, 2010 11:27 pm

rcharles wrote:I tried to do so as straightforward as possible but each situation was unique.

One of the assaults for example, was completely embellished. I was apprehended for the incident but never found guilty. I remained adamant in my denial of the charges in the incident description. In the other assault, the charges were dropped. I was essentially arrested for scratching my ex's finger trying to get my car keys from her.

I can imagine what goes through your mind as you read this, and more importantly what went through the adcomms mind when they did. That's why I wonder if I could have presented everything more effectively. It's really embarassing and In my PS I basically took full responsibilty for associating with the wrong people (including some crazy ex-girlfriends).


Uh...isn't this your problem? The issue wasn't that you "associated" with the wrong people...it was that for a time in your life, you were one of those wrong people. The end. You made mistakes, and the other people involved don't matter at all, and shouldn't even me mentioned. You dated the "crazy" girls, that means you were just as "crazy" as them.

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rcharles
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Re: Admissions Consultant

Postby rcharles » Mon Jun 07, 2010 11:38 pm

Pearalegal wrote:
rcharles wrote:I tried to do so as straightforward as possible but each situation was unique.

One of the assaults for example, was completely embellished. I was apprehended for the incident but never found guilty. I remained adamant in my denial of the charges in the incident description. In the other assault, the charges were dropped. I was essentially arrested for scratching my ex's finger trying to get my car keys from her.

I can imagine what goes through your mind as you read this, and more importantly what went through the adcomms mind when they did. That's why I wonder if I could have presented everything more effectively. It's really embarassing and In my PS I basically took full responsibilty for associating with the wrong people (including some crazy ex-girlfriends).



Uh...isn't this your problem? The issue wasn't that you "associated" with the wrong people...it was that for a time in your life, you were one of those wrong people. The end. You made mistakes, and the other people involved don't matter at all, and shouldn't even me mentioned. You dated the "crazy" girls, that means you were just as "crazy" as them.


This is a good point, but there is the person who completely embellished charges against me. She did so because I was trying to get out of that relationship. Nothing about those allegations spoke to my true personal conduct, but again, and as you point out, I was crazy enough to get with her in the first place...

Thank you everybody for your opinions.

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romothesavior
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Re: Admissions Consultant

Postby romothesavior » Mon Jun 07, 2010 11:47 pm

Pearalegal wrote:
rcharles wrote:I tried to do so as straightforward as possible but each situation was unique.

One of the assaults for example, was completely embellished. I was apprehended for the incident but never found guilty. I remained adamant in my denial of the charges in the incident description. In the other assault, the charges were dropped. I was essentially arrested for scratching my ex's finger trying to get my car keys from her.

I can imagine what goes through your mind as you read this, and more importantly what went through the adcomms mind when they did. That's why I wonder if I could have presented everything more effectively. It's really embarassing and In my PS I basically took full responsibilty for associating with the wrong people (including some crazy ex-girlfriends).


Uh...isn't this your problem? The issue wasn't that you "associated" with the wrong people...it was that for a time in your life, you were one of those wrong people. The end. You made mistakes, and the other people involved don't matter at all, and shouldn't even me mentioned. You dated the "crazy" girls, that means you were just as "crazy" as them.


I'm sorry, but that's a little presumptuous. A huge rush to judgment on your part. I'm not saying OP hasn't made mistakes (clearly he has), but often times crazy women mask it very well. You wouldn't blame a woman for dating a crazy guy, so don't blame the guy when the girl turns out to be nut-so.

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acrossthelake
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Re: Admissions Consultant

Postby acrossthelake » Mon Jun 07, 2010 11:59 pm

romothesavior wrote:
Pearalegal wrote:
rcharles wrote:I tried to do so as straightforward as possible but each situation was unique.

One of the assaults for example, was completely embellished. I was apprehended for the incident but never found guilty. I remained adamant in my denial of the charges in the incident description. In the other assault, the charges were dropped. I was essentially arrested for scratching my ex's finger trying to get my car keys from her.

I can imagine what goes through your mind as you read this, and more importantly what went through the adcomms mind when they did. That's why I wonder if I could have presented everything more effectively. It's really embarassing and In my PS I basically took full responsibilty for associating with the wrong people (including some crazy ex-girlfriends).


Uh...isn't this your problem? The issue wasn't that you "associated" with the wrong people...it was that for a time in your life, you were one of those wrong people. The end. You made mistakes, and the other people involved don't matter at all, and shouldn't even me mentioned. You dated the "crazy" girls, that means you were just as "crazy" as them.


I'm sorry, but that's a little presumptuous. A huge rush to judgment on your part. I'm not saying OP hasn't made mistakes (clearly he has), but often times crazy women mask it very well. You wouldn't blame a woman for dating a crazy guy, so don't blame the guy when the girl turns out to be nut-so.


Oh I dated a crazy guy, and I blame myself for it every day. :wink: But yes, some people mask the crazy pretty well in the first few months, then the crazy starts to show, and it's too late!




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