LOR advice

(Applications Advice, Letters of Recommendation . . . )
rbech6494
Posts: 5
Joined: Sat Jun 05, 2010 5:46 pm

LOR advice

Postby rbech6494 » Sun Jun 06, 2010 7:52 pm

Applying to law school in the fall and need advice about possible LOR's.

I've been out of grad school for a year and a half, out of undergrad for four years, but have been employed full time with the same company for the past seven years. In a perfect world I would ask my boss (the CFO) or the President of the company to write me a recommendation, but I feel by doing that I might jeopardize my job. A few months ago I was put in a situation by the President that required me to verbally agree to commit long term to the company to avoid being laid-off. I do have a couple of coworkers that I could approach to write an LOR, but coworker instead of a boss/superior doesn't seem like it would carry as much weight. I am applying to multiple schools, but NU (where WE =very important) is my first choice? Thoughts/advice please

twopoodles
Posts: 107
Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2009 1:42 pm

Re: LOR advice

Postby twopoodles » Sun Jun 06, 2010 10:56 pm

Isn't that a pain? I hate when you need a reference for a new job or new venture from your current boss! Here's what I would do. First, take the LSAT. If you score in NU's range, then make a decision. You either put all in for law school, or you forget it and don't risk the job. The LORs are not the important part of the application, but they are one more hoop. If your GPA and LSAT score (and WE) are on par, then bite the bullet and tell your boss you are considering alternatives. At that point, you should be prepared to take a temporary step back (lay off) in order to reach the goal (law school). Of course, if there is any professor who knew you well, I'd contact them and try to get at least one letter that way.

acrossthelake
Posts: 4431
Joined: Sat May 16, 2009 5:27 pm

Re: LOR advice

Postby acrossthelake » Mon Jun 07, 2010 12:45 am

If asking for a LOR might get you laid off...are you sure your boss will write you a good LOR?

User avatar
Thomas Jefferson
Posts: 385
Joined: Sun Feb 21, 2010 6:32 pm

Re: LOR advice

Postby Thomas Jefferson » Mon Jun 07, 2010 12:58 am

acrossthelake wrote:If asking for a LOR might get you laid off...are you sure your boss will write you a good LOR?

rbech6494
Posts: 5
Joined: Sat Jun 05, 2010 5:46 pm

Re: LOR advice

Postby rbech6494 » Mon Jun 07, 2010 5:36 am

acrossthelake wrote:If asking for a LOR might get you laid off...are you sure your boss will write you a good LOR?


I think I might be able to swing a good LOR from the CFO who is a little more understanding about the realities of life and moving on, but I'm not 100% sure about that. My hope is that I could be honest with the company, provide them with plenty of notice to bring in someone else to replace me and then give me the responsibility of educating my replacement about the ins and outs of the job. Someone else mentioned to me that getting laid off would allow me the opportunity to collect unemployment while possibly also presenting an opportunity to get additional financial assistance for law school. Not sure if that would be the case, but it did leave me curious.

rbech6494
Posts: 5
Joined: Sat Jun 05, 2010 5:46 pm

Re: LOR advice

Postby rbech6494 » Tue Jun 08, 2010 5:01 am

rbech6494 wrote:Applying to law school in the fall and need advice about possible LOR's.

I've been out of grad school for a year and a half, out of undergrad for four years, but have been employed full time with the same company for the past seven years. In a perfect world I would ask my boss (the CFO) or the President of the company to write me a recommendation, but I feel by doing that I might jeopardize my job. A few months ago I was put in a situation by the President that required me to verbally agree to commit long term to the company to avoid being laid-off. I do have a couple of coworkers that I could approach to write an LOR, but coworker instead of a boss/superior doesn't seem like it would carry as much weight. I am applying to multiple schools, but NU (where WE =very important) is my first choice. Thoughts/advice please


So, any thoughts on the coworker vs. boss for an LOR based on my situation?

creatinganalt
Posts: 272
Joined: Sun Mar 21, 2010 6:41 pm

Re: LOR advice

Postby creatinganalt » Tue Jun 08, 2010 7:05 am

Don't understand this question. Academic LORs always trump work ones. Just get two academic ones. You've only been out of school 1.5 years.

User avatar
kalvano
Posts: 11725
Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2009 2:24 am

Re: LOR advice

Postby kalvano » Tue Jun 08, 2010 9:09 am

creatinganalt wrote:Academic LORs always trump work ones.



Untruth.

creatinganalt
Posts: 272
Joined: Sun Mar 21, 2010 6:41 pm

Re: LOR advice

Postby creatinganalt » Tue Jun 08, 2010 9:50 am

kalvano wrote:
creatinganalt wrote:Academic LORs always trump work ones.



Untruth.


Ok. clarification. ceteris paribus, academic always trump work. Also, mediocre academic trump good work. Very few reasons to get a work reference. I was out of school four years and called admissions offices - they preferred academic. Montauk and Ivey say they prefer academic. Yale and other admissions blogs say they prefer academic.

You can always submit a 3rd work reference but schools prefer academic references for your main two.

rbech6494
Posts: 5
Joined: Sat Jun 05, 2010 5:46 pm

Re: LOR advice

Postby rbech6494 » Tue Jun 08, 2010 10:59 am

creatinganalt wrote:
kalvano wrote:
creatinganalt wrote:Academic LORs always trump work ones.



Untruth.


Ok. clarification. ceteris paribus, academic always trump work. Also, mediocre academic trump good work. Very few reasons to get a work reference. I was out of school four years and called admissions offices - they preferred academic. Montauk and Ivey say they prefer academic. Yale and other admissions blogs say they prefer academic.

You can always submit a 3rd work reference but schools prefer academic references for your main two.


Okay, I understand an academic LOR might be better than work LOR's at times, however, for NU which is heavy on the work experience and only requires one LOR (I will send two though), still only focus on academic LOR's? Also, per NU's website "application review is initiated once the first letter is received".

User avatar
kalvano
Posts: 11725
Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2009 2:24 am

Re: LOR advice

Postby kalvano » Tue Jun 08, 2010 11:10 am

creatinganalt wrote:Ok. clarification. ceteris paribus, academic always trump work. Also, mediocre academic trump good work. Very few reasons to get a work reference. I was out of school four years and called admissions offices - they preferred academic. Montauk and Ivey say they prefer academic. Yale and other admissions blogs say they prefer academic.

You can always submit a 3rd work reference but schools prefer academic references for your main two.



No, they don't. They prefer letters from someone who can attest to your ability to handle the rigors of law school. For most people, that is an academic one by default. For people who have been out of school for some amount of time, a boss is much more suited to that. 3 schools that accepted commented on my manager's LOR and none commented on my professor's LOR.

All the admission people I contacted said that, for people out of school more than a couple years, they prefer one academic LOR and one supervisor LOR as it gives them a clearer picture.


Also -

creatinganalt wrote:ceteris paribus


Die in a fire.

creatinganalt
Posts: 272
Joined: Sun Mar 21, 2010 6:41 pm

Re: LOR advice

Postby creatinganalt » Tue Jun 08, 2010 11:37 am

kalvano wrote:
creatinganalt wrote:Ok. clarification. ceteris paribus, academic always trump work. Also, mediocre academic trump good work. Very few reasons to get a work reference. I was out of school four years and called admissions offices - they preferred academic. Montauk and Ivey say they prefer academic. Yale and other admissions blogs say they prefer academic.

You can always submit a 3rd work reference but schools prefer academic references for your main two.



No, they don't. They prefer letters from someone who can attest to your ability to handle the rigors of law school. For most people, that is an academic one by default. For people who have been out of school for some amount of time, a boss is much more suited to that. 3 schools that accepted commented on my manager's LOR and none commented on my professor's LOR.

All the admission people I contacted said that, for people out of school more than a couple years, they prefer one academic LOR and one supervisor LOR as it gives them a clearer picture.


Also -

creatinganalt wrote:ceteris paribus


Die in a fire.


You can say what you like. Most professors ARE better equipped to attest to your law school performance than your manager and like I said, schools, blogs and admissions consultants agree.

Also, your anecdote could just mean that your professor's LOR was shitty.

Also, you may wanna get your medication adjusted.

User avatar
kalvano
Posts: 11725
Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2009 2:24 am

Re: LOR advice

Postby kalvano » Tue Jun 08, 2010 11:46 am

I had a nice long response typed out, but LOR's are 1/2 of 1% of your application, so I just really don't care that much.

creatinganalt
Posts: 272
Joined: Sun Mar 21, 2010 6:41 pm

Re: LOR advice

Postby creatinganalt » Tue Jun 08, 2010 12:35 pm

kalvano wrote:I had a nice long response typed out, but LOR's are 1/2 of 1% of your application, so I just really don't care that much.


True! :lol:

User avatar
goawaybee
Posts: 114
Joined: Sun May 16, 2010 11:20 pm

Re: LOR advice

Postby goawaybee » Thu Jun 10, 2010 7:45 pm

My .02

The letter needs to be solid either way.

I think it all comes down to the "how long you have been out of school for" issue. Non-traditional applicants are in a totally diff. boat. I am going on my 7th year out of undergrad. People in the academic world CHURN through students. You have to be a unique individual to be "remembered" years after you have moved on.

Work matters, especially if you are in some type of "legit, professional" position. Adm. folks are trapped in the world of numbers/protocol but they are still very much in touch with reality (I hope). Letter from your academic inst. just shows that you are willing to "play the game", where as the more recent and IMO relevant letter from employer will carry more weight. If you have been working at the same place for 7 yrs that proves that you are willing to commit. Obv. they didn't let you go and if they are going to be pissed if you leave then you are an asset, replaceable but an asset at present. I would get all your other ducks in a row as far as rest of the app. goes, transcripts, etc...work on getting academic cookie cutter one submitted then focus on other letters.

I am in a similar boat, can get someone from the dept. I majored in to whip something up but it will be "blah" at best. I am a big fan of the "truth", not going to write the letters and get them signed. I like letting people do their thing, write it, seal it up and never let me see it. Only had one professor who was worth a spit and 9/10 students hated him b/c he was a beast. Dude is just too caught up in work and I am unsure if I will be able to get in touch other than a 10 hr car ride and rolling up on him face to face. I hate the pickle jar.

I def. think you should have 1 academic type from grad. level and then focus on work. You can make it happen. Maybe a coworker as #3. It will all come together, just play the game even if it means a little more leg work.

People can blast me and say I am off base, but in my experience when contacting adm. people about this they seemed to lean towards,"whatever the hell you give us make sure it covers the why you will be an asset, why your pooh doesn't stink, why this individual believes you have what it takes, etc..."




Return to “Law School Admissions Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: 01panm, Commoncourtesy, MSNbot Media, Wipfelder, Yahoo [Bot] and 4 guests