Which major is better for law school: pharmacy or history?

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JordynAsh
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Re: Which major is better for law school: pharmacy or history?

Postby JordynAsh » Sun Jun 06, 2010 2:46 pm

drgodfather wrote:
Jackie O wrote:
drgodfather wrote:
DanInALionsDen wrote:That said, you also seem to have some sort of personality disorder.


Are you a psychiatrist or psychologist?




All of this seems so odd to me, law schools only care about their stats and not the kind of people that get admitted? With the logic used in this thread it makes me feel like an elementary education major with a 3.5 would be better than a pharmacy major with a 3.4. If they aren't going to analyze the candidate and only the numbers then I don't see why anyone would apply to law school, it gives me the impression they really don't care about the students.


oh quit your whining - law schools care about their admission stats; LSAT and gpa are the most important factors. If it comes down to you and an education major with the same numbers (assuming all else is equal) you would likely be accepted over that individual. If someone has a higher gpa than you, even if it is some BS major - it helps their stats; simply being a pharmacist is not enough of a wow factor for you to fly to the top of the applicants.


Does this mentality exist in the law schools below the top 14?


If by mentality you mean knowledge of admissions statistics, then yes, as I'm a non-T14 0L.

drgodfather
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Re: Which major is better for law school: pharmacy or history?

Postby drgodfather » Sun Jun 06, 2010 2:49 pm

mallard wrote:
drgodfather wrote:lol don't tell me, you're a liberal arts major right? What do you know about pharmacy and the classes Jackie O and I have taken?


Please list all of the useful things from a pharmacy degree that have prepared you for law school. Then ask whether engineering, math, computer science, theoretical physics, etc. lack those things. Then ask whether history, English, philosophy, sociology, anthropology, psychology, etc. actually lack those things.


I think the big one is communication skills and research, especially the former. If I had to choose who would be the better public speaker that could clearly communicate something to a judge it would be a pharmacist since communication is mandatory to be a pharmacist (unless you work in a hospital or mail order).

And those are just two skill sets that pharmacists perform at a high level.

@Jordyn, no I mean the idea that stats are everything and the be-all-to-end-all of law school admissions.

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TheBigMediocre
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Re: Which major is better for law school: pharmacy or history?

Postby TheBigMediocre » Sun Jun 06, 2010 2:51 pm

For what it's worth, I'd rather be a LAC duck in a pond in Cambridge than a pharmacist anywhere else.

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JordynAsh
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Re: Which major is better for law school: pharmacy or history?

Postby JordynAsh » Sun Jun 06, 2010 2:51 pm

drgodfather wrote:
@Jordyn, no I mean the idea that stats are everything and the be-all-to-end-all of law school admissions.


Like I (and everyone else in this thread) have said - generally yes. Various schools are more splitter friendly or more holistic, but it's definitely not just the T14 schools that focus on numbers.

drgodfather
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Re: Which major is better for law school: pharmacy or history?

Postby drgodfather » Sun Jun 06, 2010 2:52 pm

TheBigMediocre wrote:For what it's worth, I'd rather be a LAC duck in a pond in Cambridge than a pharmacist anywhere else.


Why is that?

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Kilpatrick
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Re: Which major is better for law school: pharmacy or history?

Postby Kilpatrick » Sun Jun 06, 2010 2:53 pm

Stats are not the be all end all. Great softs can help you. The point people are trying to make to you is that pharmacy school is not a great soft.

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blurbz
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Re: Which major is better for law school: pharmacy or history?

Postby blurbz » Sun Jun 06, 2010 2:53 pm

Are you really going to tell me that you think that a program that consists primarily of hard science classes is going to give students more tools to communicate than a liberal arts degree? As a reminder, the liberal arts is predicated on ideas: The formation of ideas, the discussion of ideas, and the defense of ideas. The liberal arts not only helps to teach you how to think, but how to communicate what it is that you're thinking in a meaningful way.

drgodfather
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Re: Which major is better for law school: pharmacy or history?

Postby drgodfather » Sun Jun 06, 2010 2:58 pm

blurbz wrote:Are you really going to tell me that you think that a program that consists primarily of hard science classes is going to give students more tools to communicate than a liberal arts degree? As a reminder, the liberal arts is predicated on ideas: The formation of ideas, the discussion of ideas, and the defense of ideas. The liberal arts not only helps to teach you how to think, but how to communicate what it is that you're thinking in a meaningful way.


An essential part of my pharmacy education was communicating to doctors and patients about drugs, interactions, and things that I had to simplify so a patient can understand. You don't see stuttering or quiet pharmacists in retail because that would be like letting a blind person fly an airplane.

So yes, I'm telling you that.

@Kilpatrick, okay so since pharmacy isn't a good "soft" what are examples of good "softs" that someone could have?

DanInALionsDen
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Re: Which major is better for law school: pharmacy or history?

Postby DanInALionsDen » Sun Jun 06, 2010 3:04 pm

drgodfather wrote:
DanInALionsDen wrote:That said, you also seem to have some sort of personality disorder.


Are you a psychiatrist or psychologist?




All of this seems so odd to me, law schools only care about their stats and not the kind of people that get admitted? With the logic used in this thread it makes me feel like an elementary education major with a 3.5 would be better than a pharmacy major with a 3.4. If they aren't going to analyze the candidate and only the numbers then I don't see why anyone would apply to law school, it gives me the impression they really don't care about the students.


DING DING DING DING. You win a prize.

Maybe the elementary education major would need a 3.6 to beat the pharm major's 3.4...

Search for the dozens and dozens of threads wherein engineering majors berate liberal arts majors because the former have a much more difficult time gaining admission to law school--they have lower GPAs, and the admissions committees are unsympathetic towards the difficulty of their major.

Why are you so invested in the idea that a PharmD should give you an advantage over a history major? Are you a PharmD?

drgodfather
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Re: Which major is better for law school: pharmacy or history?

Postby drgodfather » Sun Jun 06, 2010 3:05 pm

DanInALionsDen wrote:
drgodfather wrote:
DanInALionsDen wrote:That said, you also seem to have some sort of personality disorder.


Are you a psychiatrist or psychologist?




All of this seems so odd to me, law schools only care about their stats and not the kind of people that get admitted? With the logic used in this thread it makes me feel like an elementary education major with a 3.5 would be better than a pharmacy major with a 3.4. If they aren't going to analyze the candidate and only the numbers then I don't see why anyone would apply to law school, it gives me the impression they really don't care about the students.


DING DING DING DING. You win a prize.

Maybe the elementary education major would need a 3.6 to beat the pharm major's 3.4...

Search for the dozens and dozens of threads wherein engineering majors berate liberal arts majors because the former have a much more difficult time gaining admission to law school--they have lower GPAs, and the admissions committees are unsympathetic towards the difficulty of their major.

Why are you so invested in the idea that a PharmD should give you an advantage over a history major? Are you a PharmD?


I am a Pharm.D and one of my friends who graduated with a degree in history is trying to tell me that if we had the exact same stats that he would have the advantage because of his history degree.


You guys make it seem as if I'm a mad scientist going crazy over this or something, I just want educated opinions.

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Jackie O
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Re: Which major is better for law school: pharmacy or history?

Postby Jackie O » Sun Jun 06, 2010 3:07 pm

oh boy, I want to support you as a fellow pharmacist but I'm not going to lie you're kind of embarrassing me with how defensive you seem to be :roll:

I agree with you that communication is stressed in pharmacy school - but I think if we're going to say why pharm might be better than an easy major it's probably just proof that you can excel in a rigorous program, maybe demonstrating that you may also do so in law school? this isn't any different from engineering though - the only other benefit is that the school can claim a higher % of accepted students with advanced degrees

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mallard
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Re: Which major is better for law school: pharmacy or history?

Postby mallard » Sun Jun 06, 2010 3:09 pm

Jackie, what provides the rigor of the pharmacy degree? The OP is right, I don't know anything about it.

drgodfather
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Re: Which major is better for law school: pharmacy or history?

Postby drgodfather » Sun Jun 06, 2010 3:12 pm

Jackie O wrote:oh boy, I want to support you as a fellow pharmacist but I'm not going to lie you're kind of embarrassing me with how defensive you seem to be :roll:

I agree with you that communication is stressed in pharmacy school - but I think if we're going to say why pharm might be better than an easy major it's probably just proof that you can excel in a rigorous program, maybe demonstrating that you may also do so in law school? this isn't any different from engineering though - the only other benefit is that the school can claim a higher % of accepted students with advanced degrees


Don't think of me as defensive, think of me as playing good cop/bad cop.

DanInALionsDen
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Re: Which major is better for law school: pharmacy or history?

Postby DanInALionsDen » Sun Jun 06, 2010 3:15 pm

drgodfather wrote:
DanInALionsDen wrote:
drgodfather wrote:
DanInALionsDen wrote:That said, you also seem to have some sort of personality disorder.


Are you a psychiatrist or psychologist?




All of this seems so odd to me, law schools only care about their stats and not the kind of people that get admitted? With the logic used in this thread it makes me feel like an elementary education major with a 3.5 would be better than a pharmacy major with a 3.4. If they aren't going to analyze the candidate and only the numbers then I don't see why anyone would apply to law school, it gives me the impression they really don't care about the students.


DING DING DING DING. You win a prize.

Maybe the elementary education major would need a 3.6 to beat the pharm major's 3.4...

Search for the dozens and dozens of threads wherein engineering majors berate liberal arts majors because the former have a much more difficult time gaining admission to law school--they have lower GPAs, and the admissions committees are unsympathetic towards the difficulty of their major.

Why are you so invested in the idea that a PharmD should give you an advantage over a history major? Are you a PharmD?


I am a Pharm.D and one of my friends who graduated with a degree in history is trying to tell me that if we had the exact same stats that he would have the advantage because of his history degree.


You guys make it seem as if I'm a mad scientist going crazy over this or something, I just want educated opinions.


In admissions, with absolutely identical applications and stats (such a pair of identical candidates doesn't exist, but metaphorically), you would have a small advantage. In law school, I imagine that if your friend had taken his history major seriously--done the readings, written long, well cited papers, killed it on bluebook exams--then he would have the advantage, because he would have a major which better prepared him for law school.

On most law school admissions websites, there is some kind of FAQ question like "What undergrad major is the best for law school?" The answer is usually something like "A major which requires a large amount of reading as well as a synthesis and analytical application of a broad breadth of knowledge will best prepare a student for law school."

Of course, I've never taken a pharm class, but I have taken science classes and those classes didn't require skills very similar to those which I imagine will be required in law school.

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Rikkugrrl
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Re: Which major is better for law school: pharmacy or history?

Postby Rikkugrrl » Sun Jun 06, 2010 3:20 pm

drgodfather wrote:
mallard wrote:
drgodfather wrote:lol don't tell me, you're a liberal arts major right? What do you know about pharmacy and the classes Jackie O and I have taken?


Please list all of the useful things from a pharmacy degree that have prepared you for law school. Then ask whether engineering, math, computer science, theoretical physics, etc. lack those things. Then ask whether history, English, philosophy, sociology, anthropology, psychology, etc. actually lack those things.


I think the big one is communication skills and research, especially the former. If I had to choose who would be the better public speaker that could clearly communicate something to a judge it would be a pharmacist since communication is mandatory to be a pharmacist (unless you work in a hospital or mail order).

And those are just two skill sets that pharmacists perform at a high level.

@Jordyn, no I mean the idea that stats are everything and the be-all-to-end-all of law school admissions.


*giggle* If by "communicating" you mean "grinning and saying 'yes sir no sir' while your customer screams at you and demands a gift card for waiting four whole minutes for their prescription to be filled" then yes, pharmacy is a great place for communication. You're not talking about communication, you're talking about patience. Reality: there is no communicating in the retail world, just a whole lot of taking orders with a big ole' smile. You'll be filling prescriptions, yeah, but you'll also be manning the cash register, doing cash counts, and fetching milk and detergent. A large part of the job is being a well paid cashier. And communicating with customers is often interpreted as getting smart, talking down, or giving lip, which will give them an excuse to call you in, earning themselves a nice fat gift card. In time, you'll learn to say as little as you can to avoid getting in trouble.

I'm probably in the minority here, but I'd say avoid pharmacy like the plague (unless you're working in a hospital, which is an excellent job, but tough one to find. Retail is much more likely because nobody wants to do it).

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Re: Which major is better for law school: pharmacy or history?

Postby drgodfather » Sun Jun 06, 2010 3:26 pm

Rikkugrrl wrote:
drgodfather wrote:
mallard wrote:
drgodfather wrote:lol don't tell me, you're a liberal arts major right? What do you know about pharmacy and the classes Jackie O and I have taken?


Please list all of the useful things from a pharmacy degree that have prepared you for law school. Then ask whether engineering, math, computer science, theoretical physics, etc. lack those things. Then ask whether history, English, philosophy, sociology, anthropology, psychology, etc. actually lack those things.


I think the big one is communication skills and research, especially the former. If I had to choose who would be the better public speaker that could clearly communicate something to a judge it would be a pharmacist since communication is mandatory to be a pharmacist (unless you work in a hospital or mail order).

And those are just two skill sets that pharmacists perform at a high level.

@Jordyn, no I mean the idea that stats are everything and the be-all-to-end-all of law school admissions.


*giggle* If by "communicating" you mean "grinning and saying 'yes sir no sir' while your customer screams at you and demands a gift card for waiting four whole minutes for their prescription to be filled" then yes, pharmacy is a great place for communication. You're not talking about communication, you're talking about patience. Reality: there is no communicating in the retail world, just a whole lot of taking orders with a big ole' smile. You'll be filling prescriptions, yeah, but you'll also be manning the cash register, doing cash counts, and fetching milk and detergent. A large part of the job is being a well paid cashier. And communicating with customers is often interpreted as getting smart, talking down, or giving lip, which will give them an excuse to call you in, earning themselves a nice fat gift card. In time, you'll learn to say as little as you can to avoid getting in trouble.

I'm probably in the minority here, but I'd say avoid pharmacy like the plague (unless you're working in a hospital, which is an excellent job, but tough one to find. Retail is much more likely because nobody wants to do it).


You have made it quite clear that you have no idea what you are talking about. In my years of pharmacy I have never worked at a "yes sir no sir here's your meds" job, I'm constantly counseling and any pharmacy that doesn't is breaking the law.

I don't work for a chain pharmacy so 95% of what you said is irrelevant to me and most pharmacists that I know.

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Jackie O
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Re: Which major is better for law school: pharmacy or history?

Postby Jackie O » Sun Jun 06, 2010 3:27 pm

mallard wrote:Jackie, what provides the rigor of the pharmacy degree? The OP is right, I don't know anything about it.


trying to think of where to start, hopefully this paints a better picture..

it's a heavy course load throughout the program; I had to take at least 17 credits every semester which with labs and seminars typically added up to about 25 hours of class time a week, all of which are advanced science courses none of the BS electives or gym or anything. In addition to schoolwork we're also required to do clinical rotations throughout the program and then a full year our last year (much like in the last two years of an MD program).

We have to learn pretty much everything about every drug - and there are a TON of medications - we learn the mechanism of action of every medication, the drug interactions that exist, the side effects, the indications, the disease states, the pharmacokinetics, medication stability and so on. I think a lot of people don't really understand how much pharmacists know about the meds they dispense; something as basic as tylenol, I didn't just memorize that if you overdose you'll kill your liver; I know how the drug is metabolized and the by-products and the mechanism by which that can be toxic.

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mallard
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Re: Which major is better for law school: pharmacy or history?

Postby mallard » Sun Jun 06, 2010 3:28 pm

Interesting stuff. It does seem like a lot of memorization with an applied component, which seems like decent prep for law.

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Rikkugrrl
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Re: Which major is better for law school: pharmacy or history?

Postby Rikkugrrl » Sun Jun 06, 2010 3:34 pm

My dad works in retail pharmacy, has for over 25 years. He also takes high blood pressure medicine because of it. I've personally witnessed several of his problem customers and he's told me about many, many more. At 50+ years old he's desperately searching for a hospital job because his doctor thinks his job is a health hazard. Anyway, I'm not talking about you personally since you said this thread was hypothetical. I was referring to when you said communication was a skill pharmacists need to perform at a high level. What I'm saying is in retail, that matters much less than your ability to shut up and smile. It's saved my dad several lawsuits.

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Kilpatrick
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Re: Which major is better for law school: pharmacy or history?

Postby Kilpatrick » Sun Jun 06, 2010 3:39 pm

drgodfather wrote:
blurbz wrote:Are you really going to tell me that you think that a program that consists primarily of hard science classes is going to give students more tools to communicate than a liberal arts degree? As a reminder, the liberal arts is predicated on ideas: The formation of ideas, the discussion of ideas, and the defense of ideas. The liberal arts not only helps to teach you how to think, but how to communicate what it is that you're thinking in a meaningful way.


An essential part of my pharmacy education was communicating to doctors and patients about drugs, interactions, and things that I had to simplify so a patient can understand. You don't see stuttering or quiet pharmacists in retail because that would be like letting a blind person fly an airplane.

So yes, I'm telling you that.

@Kilpatrick, okay so since pharmacy isn't a good "soft" what are examples of good "softs" that someone could have?


Military service. Other than being a URM, it's the only thing I've ever seen that seemed to be a game changing soft.

drgodfather
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Re: Which major is better for law school: pharmacy or history?

Postby drgodfather » Sun Jun 06, 2010 3:40 pm

I really should have picked a better title for this thread, something like "Which major looks better on an application: pharmacy or history?"

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Kilpatrick
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Re: Which major is better for law school: pharmacy or history?

Postby Kilpatrick » Sun Jun 06, 2010 3:41 pm

Your title should have been "I know I already made this exact same thread but this time it's hypothetical"

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Jackie O
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Re: Which major is better for law school: pharmacy or history?

Postby Jackie O » Sun Jun 06, 2010 3:44 pm

mallard wrote:Interesting stuff. It does seem like a lot of memorization with an applied component, which seems like decent prep for law.


I'm glad you think so - I do too.

Rikku - let me guess, CVS? not all pharmacies are like that, though I'll admit there are a lot of crap pharmacists out there
even as an intern I counseled at least a quarter of all patients on their medications, and I have never rung anyone out nor grabbed milk for anyone :)

drgodfather
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Re: Which major is better for law school: pharmacy or history?

Postby drgodfather » Sun Jun 06, 2010 3:49 pm

Kilpatrick wrote:Your title should have been "I know I already made this exact same thread but this time it's hypothetical"


No I didn't, I haven't made a thread concerning majors and their importance. Get over it.

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Kilpatrick
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Re: Which major is better for law school: pharmacy or history?

Postby Kilpatrick » Sun Jun 06, 2010 3:56 pm

Well ok you made a different thread in which you asked the same exact question and got the same exact answers. My apologies.




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