UG MATTERS! Don't believe the hype

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Unitas
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Re: UG MATTERS! Don't believe the hype

Postby Unitas » Fri Jun 04, 2010 3:55 pm

OG Loc wrote:
UGmatters wrote:
1) Difficulty of school -

Its funny that every single person who applies to law school receives numbers from LSAC that show how their numbers lineup to the average from their UG, but most fail to realize that adcomms care about this. Good luck at law school, guys.

If the average GPA at your school is a 3.3, and you get a 3.4, good for you. If the average GPA at your school is a 3.6, and you got a 3.5, not so much. This requires little more than common sense to understand.



I'm assuming the GPA distributions are for the entire graduating class at a given university, no? If so, then they would be basically meaningless for medium to large universities. Throwing the engineering, physics, etc. majors into the same pool as the communications, political science, etc. majors, averaging them, and then comparing them individually to that average is not going to tell anything. There will be huge differences in the difficulty and grading practices of the different colleges and majors at any sizable university.


I believe they are just for those applying to Law School.

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tru
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Re: UG MATTERS! Don't believe the hype

Postby tru » Fri Jun 04, 2010 4:08 pm

.
Last edited by tru on Fri May 20, 2016 3:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

OG Loc
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Re: UG MATTERS! Don't believe the hype

Postby OG Loc » Fri Jun 04, 2010 4:44 pm

Unitas wrote:
OG Loc wrote:
UGmatters wrote:
1) Difficulty of school -

Its funny that every single person who applies to law school receives numbers from LSAC that show how their numbers lineup to the average from their UG, but most fail to realize that adcomms care about this. Good luck at law school, guys.

If the average GPA at your school is a 3.3, and you get a 3.4, good for you. If the average GPA at your school is a 3.6, and you got a 3.5, not so much. This requires little more than common sense to understand.



I'm assuming the GPA distributions are for the entire graduating class at a given university, no? If so, then they would be basically meaningless for medium to large universities. Throwing the engineering, physics, etc. majors into the same pool as the communications, political science, etc. majors, averaging them, and then comparing them individually to that average is not going to tell anything. There will be huge differences in the difficulty and grading practices of the different colleges and majors at any sizable university.


I believe they are just for those applying to Law School.


Yeah I think you're right, I just glanced over my score report. Doesn't change my argument though.

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ConMan345
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Re: UG MATTERS! Don't believe the hype

Postby ConMan345 » Fri Jun 04, 2010 4:53 pm

Can you also ban that guy that keeps advertising his book?

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somewhatwayward
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Re: UG MATTERS! Don't believe the hype

Postby somewhatwayward » Fri Jun 04, 2010 5:17 pm

romothesavior wrote:Also, many of us on TLS could have gone to much better undergrads but did the smart thing and took a huge scholarship somewhere else. I had good grades from a highly respected high school in my state and a really good ACT, and I would have had an okay shot at a lot of the "top" undergrad schools. But I took a full ride at a relatively unknown school, got an awesome education (I wouldn't trade it for anything), and did well in my classes.

A lot of those touting their great non-HYSP undergrads aren't that special. In many cases, they're just less debt averse.


ok i'm a broken record.....but at the best colleges the FA is really good. it can end up being cheaper to go to harvard than to your state school.

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NU_Jet55
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Re: UG MATTERS! Don't believe the hype

Postby NU_Jet55 » Fri Jun 04, 2010 7:34 pm

Nightrunner wrote:OP (alt and original user) banned for one month.

Don't use alts, people.


And boom goes the dynamite.

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lostjake
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Re: UG MATTERS! Don't believe the hype

Postby lostjake » Fri Jun 04, 2010 10:11 pm

Nightrunner wrote:
ConMan345 wrote:Can you also ban that guy that keeps advertising his book?

link?


viewtopic.php?f=6&t=115568

Personally I think anyone selling a service should have to have a special account...

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MrKappus
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Re: UG MATTERS! Don't believe the hype

Postby MrKappus » Fri Jun 04, 2010 10:17 pm

lostjake wrote:
Nightrunner wrote:
ConMan345 wrote:Can you also ban that guy that keeps advertising his book?

link?


viewtopic.php?f=6&t=115568

Personally I think anyone selling a service should have to have a special account...


Lighten the hell up, people. Jesus. It's an online message board.

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tru
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Re: UG MATTERS! Don't believe the hype

Postby tru » Fri Jun 04, 2010 10:24 pm

.
Last edited by tru on Fri May 20, 2016 3:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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lostjake
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Re: UG MATTERS! Don't believe the hype

Postby lostjake » Fri Jun 04, 2010 10:33 pm

Daytukrjabs wrote:
MrKappus wrote:
Lighten the hell up, people. Jesus. It's an online message board.


They are soon to be 1Ls. They know not how to perform such things.


reading these posts is 3 seconds of my life I'll never get back *sigh*

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MrKappus
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Re: UG MATTERS! Don't believe the hype

Postby MrKappus » Fri Jun 04, 2010 11:05 pm

lostjake wrote:
Daytukrjabs wrote:
MrKappus wrote:
Lighten the hell up, people. Jesus. It's an online message board.


They are soon to be 1Ls. They know not how to perform such things.


reading these posts is 3 seconds of my life I'll never get back *sigh*


Haha, but the 3+ seconds you spent complaining about some dude who wrote a book and posted on the interwebz? TOTALLY WORTH IT.

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bk1
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Re: UG MATTERS! Don't believe the hype

Postby bk1 » Fri Jun 04, 2010 11:06 pm

MrKappus wrote:Haha, but the 3+ seconds you spent complaining about some dude who wrote a book and posted on the interwebz? TOTALLY WORTH IT.


Venting is always worth it, imo.

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MrKappus
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Re: UG MATTERS! Don't believe the hype

Postby MrKappus » Fri Jun 04, 2010 11:08 pm

bk1 wrote:
MrKappus wrote:Haha, but the 3+ seconds you spent complaining about some dude who wrote a book and posted on the interwebz? TOTALLY WORTH IT.


Venting is always worth it, imo.


Eh, maybe. But his/her previous post was condescending + retarded. Not a good combo.

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dresden doll
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Re: UG MATTERS! Don't believe the hype

Postby dresden doll » Fri Jun 04, 2010 11:57 pm

It all depends on what 'mattering' means to you. Given that we all agree that UG matters for those in between 25 and 75 percentile and that most of us aren't at/above 75th percentile at our dream schools, I'd say that it can matter quite enough.

I mean, if you hover around median at your dream school and get knocked out by a kid with equivalent numbers that went to a better UG, it will have made quite a difference for your intents and purposes. Just sayin'.

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dresden doll
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Re: UG MATTERS! Don't believe the hype

Postby dresden doll » Sat Jun 05, 2010 12:07 am

eskimo wrote:
ConMan345 wrote:Can we all agree, though, that the indirect benefit of a top school = access to really awesome resume-building opportunities. My numbers are fine but it's my resume that put me over the top. My resume is only what it is because of the school I went to for undergrad.

I don't think that's true of only top schools. I go to a large state school, with a much less motivated student body than, say, the student body at Harvard. This means there are far fewer qualified people competing for leadership positions, awards, etc., and as a result I've been able to stand out more on campus, with lots of leadership and research positions, and some great administrative connections. I'd argue it's harder to get more resume-building opportunities at a school like Harvard because you have a student body full of competitive go-getters. This is all anecdotal, of course, but I have friends at great UG schools and I've had access to a lot more "resume-building opportunities" than they have.

I guess I think that, in the end, UG is what you make of it. A motivated student will seek out challenges, a good education, leadership roles, or resume-boosters no matter where they go to UG. Yes, Harvard looks better on a resume than X/Y/Z State University, and there may be better connections to be made at a prestigious school, but I definitely think the impact of a specific UG on a candidate's law school application cycle is negligible, at best.


Opportunity to work for Goldman Sachs when it comes recruiting on your campus >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> winning a Student Government spot in a competition against a bunch of unmotivated losers.

I don't accept that UG makes no difference. And, btw, I got a 4.0 at a no-name school where I was plenty involved, so I have no Ivy-polished axe to grind here. Just being realistic. I'd gladly have traded off a few GPA points for an HYPS degree.

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MrKappus
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Re: UG MATTERS! Don't believe the hype

Postby MrKappus » Sat Jun 05, 2010 12:23 am

dresden doll wrote:Opportunity to work for Goldman Sachs when it comes recruiting on your campus >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> winning a Student Government spot in a competition against a bunch of unmotivated losers.

I don't accept that UG makes no difference. And, btw, I got a 4.0 at a no-name school where I was plenty involved, so I have no Ivy-polished axe to grind here. Just being realistic. I'd gladly have traded off a few GPA points for an HYPS degree.


http://www.payscale.com/best-colleges/i ... chools.asp

Blatant Dartmouth trolling. I went there. I have to.

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dresden doll
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Re: UG MATTERS! Don't believe the hype

Postby dresden doll » Sat Jun 05, 2010 12:25 am

MrKappus wrote:
dresden doll wrote:Opportunity to work for Goldman Sachs when it comes recruiting on your campus >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> winning a Student Government spot in a competition against a bunch of unmotivated losers.

I don't accept that UG makes no difference. And, btw, I got a 4.0 at a no-name school where I was plenty involved, so I have no Ivy-polished axe to grind here. Just being realistic. I'd gladly have traded off a few GPA points for an HYPS degree.


http://www.payscale.com/best-colleges/i ... chools.asp

Blatant Dartmouth trolling. I went there. I have to.


I mean, I know people who went to Dartmouth. It makes perfect sense. I really can't think of any high earners from my UG (although I am sure some go on to make decent money).

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TheKingLives
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Re: UG MATTERS! Don't believe the hype

Postby TheKingLives » Fri Jul 21, 2017 1:33 am

Reviving this thread to share my experience with my pre-law advisor. I go to a T10 UG and met with him over the summer. I'm surprised how much my UG mattered in applying to T14 law schools, but it makes sense. Your UG matters to adcomms because previous students from your UG have left a record for the adcomms to keep track of. Obviously not every school will have sent the same number of students, but for a place like my UG, enough students have gone and done well that applying from here is an asset. As a result, I am compared to applicants from my UG as much as (or maybe even more so than) I am to the rest of the applicant pool. It makes sense with US News statistics as well; if you go to a UG that doesn't regularly send stellar applicants, they'll expect to see higher numbers from you if they're going to extend an offer of admission. For students from T1 UGs, adcomms might be more willing to forgive lower numbers because you're more likely to be successful. My advisor also showed me the average LSAT scores admitted students from my UG had for T5 law schools and they averaged 170. Interesting to find out and hopefully helpful to some in the echo chamber that is TLS.

ernie
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Re: UG MATTERS! Don't believe the hype

Postby ernie » Fri Jul 21, 2017 1:57 am

Seriously why do people insist on bumping several years old threads to offer useless anecdata

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rpupkin
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Re: UG MATTERS! Don't believe the hype

Postby rpupkin » Fri Jul 21, 2017 2:07 am

TheKingLives wrote:Reviving this thread to share my experience with my pre-law advisor. I go to a T10 UG and met with him over the summer. I'm surprised how much my UG mattered in applying to T14 law schools, but it makes sense. Your UG matters to adcomms because previous students from your UG have left a record for the adcomms to keep track of. Obviously not every school will have sent the same number of students, but for a place like my UG, enough students have gone and done well that applying from here is an asset. As a result, I am compared to applicants from my UG as much as (or maybe even more so than) I am to the rest of the applicant pool. It makes sense with US News statistics as well; if you go to a UG that doesn't regularly send stellar applicants, they'll expect to see higher numbers from you if they're going to extend an offer of admission. For students from T1 UGs, adcomms might be more willing to forgive lower numbers because you're more likely to be successful. My advisor also showed me the average LSAT scores admitted students from my UG had for T5 law schools and they averaged 170. Interesting to find out and hopefully helpful to some in the echo chamber that is TLS.

I have no reason to doubt that the first two sentences of your post are correct. But every other sentence is wrong.

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melmelcoolj
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Re: UG MATTERS! Don't believe the hype

Postby melmelcoolj » Fri Jul 21, 2017 2:33 am

From my experience, it is entirely correct that the T13 law school whose UG I happened to go to did not play in my favor at all. I went straight to the waitlist despite having visited the school and had a law school professor write my recommendations. I think schools are just trying hard to maintain geographic diversity. They ended up accepting me, but gave me wayyy less money than someone else with the exact same numbers.

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: UG MATTERS! Don't believe the hype

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Fri Jul 21, 2017 6:28 am

You realize your pre-law advisor has an incentive to make you think your school makes a difference, right?

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UVA2B
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Re: UG MATTERS! Don't believe the hype

Postby UVA2B » Fri Jul 21, 2017 8:09 am

The annoying On-T poster potential is strong in this one. Has already fought about the fairness of the LSAT and bumped a seven year old thread to contend their UG makes a difference in admissions (before ever going through admissions no less), and spouts meaningless anecdata drivel to support that.

Keep it up, you could be fun through this fall.

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QuentonCassidy
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Re: UG MATTERS! Don't believe the hype

Postby QuentonCassidy » Fri Jul 21, 2017 8:32 am

TheKingLives wrote:Reviving this thread to share my experience with my pre-law advisor. I go to a T10 UG and met with him over the summer. I'm surprised how much my UG mattered in applying to T14 law schools, but it makes sense. Your UG matters to adcomms because previous students from your UG have left a record for the adcomms to keep track of. Obviously not every school will have sent the same number of students, but for a place like my UG, enough students have gone and done well that applying from here is an asset. As a result, I am compared to applicants from my UG as much as (or maybe even more so than) I am to the rest of the applicant pool. It makes sense with US News statistics as well; if you go to a UG that doesn't regularly send stellar applicants, they'll expect to see higher numbers from you if they're going to extend an offer of admission. For students from T1 UGs, adcomms might be more willing to forgive lower numbers because you're more likely to be successful. My advisor also showed me the average LSAT scores admitted students from my UG had for T5 law schools and they averaged 170. Interesting to find out and hopefully helpful to some in the echo chamber that is TLS.

Does your T10 UG happen to be Duke?

etramak
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Re: UG MATTERS! Don't believe the hype

Postby etramak » Fri Jul 21, 2017 5:07 pm

UVA2B wrote:The annoying On-T poster potential is strong in this one. Has already fought about the fairness of the LSAT and bumped a seven year old thread to contend their UG makes a difference in admissions (before ever going through admissions no less), and spouts meaningless anecdata drivel to support that.

Keep it up, you could be fun through this fall.


The Columbia Law FAQ cites "rigor, depth, and breadth of curriculum" (I suppose this could be read as rigor of the university as a whole) and "institutional grading trends" (inflation) as two factors that are carefully considered by the adcoms.

Any idea how a law school determines whether grade inflation exists? And if a UG inflates an average to say, a B, does that hurt the As or just the Bs and B+s?




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