Law or medicine?

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TUP
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Re: Law or medicine?

Postby TUP » Mon May 24, 2010 6:56 pm

NewLobo wrote:
TUP wrote:You can't even compare for example T20 students to MD students given the different barriers to entry.

Can you prove this?


Prove that there are different barriers to entry for law school and med school? LOL, I'll let you try and figure that out on your own.

I assume you had a RC fail and missed the "can't" and "for example" in my post.

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TUP
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Re: Law or medicine?

Postby TUP » Mon May 24, 2010 6:58 pm

NewLobo wrote:
oberlin08 wrote:
way different.
really uncomparable,

I picked out the important words for you. They are for people with two very different skill and mind sets. To say that the average med student is better then a T20 law student is pretty persumptuous.


Note that I did not compare the average med student to a T20 student. I used a common comparison on this board and stated that said comparison cannot be made due the difference in barriers to entry.

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TUP
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Re: Law or medicine?

Postby TUP » Mon May 24, 2010 7:01 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
shepdawg wrote:If I could do my UG over again, I would have taken classes to allow me to get into dental school. Dentists make a huge chunk of change for the amount of work they actually do.


I doubt it is too late.


It's not, there are dozens of post-bacc pre-med and pre-dental programs out there designed specifically for this situation.

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NewLobo
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Re: Law or medicine?

Postby NewLobo » Mon May 24, 2010 7:13 pm

TUP wrote:Note that I did not compare the average med student to a T20 student. I used a common comparison on this board and stated that said comparison cannot be made due the difference in barriers to entry.

My mistake. It just bothered me how you seemed to degrade the quality of law students and elevate quality of Med students. You said most law students would not be accepted to Med school should they try. Could not the same thing apply to med students applying to law school? I do know that a common weak section for many students on the MCAT is their verbal section. Which is similar to the LSAT.

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DoubleChecks
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Re: Law or medicine?

Postby DoubleChecks » Mon May 24, 2010 8:38 pm

NewLobo wrote:
TUP wrote:Note that I did not compare the average med student to a T20 student. I used a common comparison on this board and stated that said comparison cannot be made due the difference in barriers to entry.

My mistake. It just bothered me how you seemed to degrade the quality of law students and elevate quality of Med students. You said most law students would not be accepted to Med school should they try. Could not the same thing apply to med students applying to law school? I do know that a common weak section for many students on the MCAT is their verbal section. Which is similar to the LSAT.


no, or at least more med students would get into law schools than law students would get into med schools. lol because of the rampant over production of lawyers we have going on (law schools opening left and right, ty very much ABA), getting into A law school is considerably easier than getting into A medical school. fewer schools, fewer seats = more selectivity in this case.

of course some students will find getting into a med school is easier than getting into a law school because...well...ppl vary. but overall, i truly believe the above.

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DoubleChecks
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Re: Law or medicine?

Postby DoubleChecks » Mon May 24, 2010 8:39 pm

Mr. Pablo wrote:Sure you can make a lot as a dentist, but then again, you have to be a dentist. I think dentistry might be the most boring field of medicine. I laugh at dentistry. Ha!


lol that seems to be the main argument against dentistry, and it is kind of a subjective one. for example, i really dont mind looking at teeth every day for the rest of my life. to each his own.
Last edited by DoubleChecks on Mon May 24, 2010 11:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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NewLobo
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Re: Law or medicine?

Postby NewLobo » Mon May 24, 2010 10:37 pm

:D Look at these bad boys.

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TUP
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Re: Law or medicine?

Postby TUP » Mon May 24, 2010 11:34 pm

NewLobo wrote:
TUP wrote:Note that I did not compare the average med student to a T20 student. I used a common comparison on this board and stated that said comparison cannot be made due the difference in barriers to entry.

My mistake. It just bothered me how you seemed to degrade the quality of law students and elevate quality of Med students. You said most law students would not be accepted to Med school should they try. Could not the same thing apply to med students applying to law school? I do know that a common weak section for many students on the MCAT is their verbal section. Which is similar to the LSAT.


While both require a personal statement and LORs, law school admissions appear to be heavily based on LSAT and GPA.

Med school requires GPA, an often higher BCPM GPA, MCAT (fact/knowledge based as opposed to the LSAT's more basic skills), significant volunteer work, dozens of hours of shadowing, and some research experience (this last one is more for top schools).

I'm sure there are students that would excel at one and fail at the other, and likely some that would do well at either. While I don't think it's strange to be interested in both fields, my point was that it's difficult (and pointless) to compare which type of student is "better."

As far as the OP, if you've worked as a paralegal AND shadowed multiple doctors and still can't decide, I doubt you'll get much help here. Maybe that's a sign that neither are for you.

motiontodismiss
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Re: Law or medicine?

Postby motiontodismiss » Tue May 25, 2010 2:24 am

NewLobo wrote:
motiontodismiss wrote:Off Topic: A senior captain for a major airline will probably net $250k working about 20 hours a week and gets to travel to pretty cool places. But you have to work your way up from $16k a year flying turboprops from Boise to Denver.

They only fly 20-30 hrs a week. However, they do have other tasks to perform. It is sad how much starting pilots earn after investing so much time and money to obtain their licences.


That and considering they're responsible for your life and the lives of everyone on board, passengers AND crew.

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luhrenzo
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Re: Law or medicine?

Postby luhrenzo » Tue May 25, 2010 2:54 am

if you can, med school

confusedball
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Re: Law or medicine?

Postby confusedball » Tue May 25, 2010 5:59 pm

NewLobo wrote:I do know that a common weak section for many students on the MCAT is their verbal section. Which is similar to the LSAT.

This is not quite true. The MCAT verbal is hard simply because one can only miss 1 question in the entire Verbal section before the scoring drops precipitously. The verbal section on the MCAT is actually the easiest section, and that makes it the hardest to score high on percentile-wise. The curve is brutal and the slightest carelessness could mean a 20 percentile drop in the section.

The other two science sections require a tremendous amount of background knowledge and most importantly, the ability to apply them to completely new and unfamiliar situations. They are difficult to do even if you know your material cold and have unlimited time. If you're the type who had to always look at solved-out example problems in the book before tackling a new homework problem, then you are in trouble for the MCAT.

All in all, I found preparing for the MCAT far more time consuming and stressful than the LSAT. The LSAT felt more like the SAT plus some brain puzzles (in which the more you practiced and applied strategies, the better you got).

Also 150k people take the LSAT each year versus 75k people for the MCAT, so 99th percentile represents twice as many people on the LSAT than the MCAT. And there is an additional barrier of entry for the MCAT in that the test takers are likely to have completed or are completing the premed science requirements and did well enough in them to have bothered.

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DoubleChecks
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Re: Law or medicine?

Postby DoubleChecks » Tue May 25, 2010 9:13 pm

confusedball wrote:
NewLobo wrote:I do know that a common weak section for many students on the MCAT is their verbal section. Which is similar to the LSAT.

This is not quite true. The MCAT verbal is hard simply because one can only miss 1 question in the entire Verbal section before the scoring drops precipitously. The verbal section on the MCAT is actually the easiest section, and that makes it the hardest to score high on percentile-wise. The curve is brutal and the slightest carelessness could mean a 20 percentile drop in the section.

The other two science sections require a tremendous amount of background knowledge and most importantly, the ability to apply them to completely new and unfamiliar situations. They are difficult to do even if you know your material cold and have unlimited time. If you're the type who had to always look at solved-out example problems in the book before tackling a new homework problem, then you are in trouble for the MCAT.

All in all, I found preparing for the MCAT far more time consuming and stressful than the LSAT. The LSAT felt more like the SAT plus some brain puzzles (in which the more you practiced and applied strategies, the better you got).

Also 150k people take the LSAT each year versus 75k people for the MCAT, so 99th percentile represents twice as many people on the LSAT than the MCAT. And there is an additional barrier of entry for the MCAT in that the test takers are likely to have completed or are completing the premed science requirements and did well enough in them to have bothered.


+1 to all of the above; personally, i agree w/ all that you just said

just adding a minor detail; the verbal section of the MCAT also sucks (relatively to the RC section of the LSAT) because it is poorly made...the passages and questions on the MCAT one tend to be a bit more ambiguous or badly worded...not tremendously shitty, but just enough where if you often practice between the LSAT and MCAT versions, you sorta go, "man wish the LSAT writers would write for the damned MCAT verbal section"

SuperFreak
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Re: Law or medicine?

Postby SuperFreak » Thu May 27, 2010 7:52 am

Law is better mostly because medicine sucks up time. If you don't want to be a doctor after medical school and even during residency, you're stuck because of the opportunity cost. Also, a doctor making upwards of 200k works long hours just like a lawyer. He answers to hospital administration superiors and, if he wants to make as much annually as a lawyer, doesn't see his children very often. At least as a lawyer, you still have time to plan a career change if you eventually get tired of the law, and a portion of your well-earned salary doesn't go into insurance. In short, you aren't "stuck" in one path, although lawyers don't typically get hired as anything else other than others while getting paid the same amount.

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prezidentv8
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Re: Law or medicine?

Postby prezidentv8 » Thu May 27, 2010 8:26 am

motiontodismiss wrote:
Grad09 wrote:Want the easy way out? Go to Dental school.
-same money and job security that doctors have
-9 to 5 workday
-residency isn't as long
-VERY flexible down the road as far as time commitment

A friend of my girlfriend's family owns her own practice, works three days a week for 6 hours, and nets over 250K.

FML.


Yeah, but you have to look at teeth all day.

Off Topic: A senior captain for a major airline will probably net $250k working about 20 hours a week and gets to travel to pretty cool places. But you have to work your way up from $16k a year flying turboprops from Boise to Denver.



New TLS advice born here? Pilot > Med > Law?

Note, however, that some of us on the law school message boards actually picked law because we wanted law, not because we wanted to make money and thought med school was too hard. I mean seriously, who wants to look at dead bodies as part of their schooling?!

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Re: Law or medicine?

Postby SuperFreak » Thu May 27, 2010 8:29 am

prezidentv8 wrote:
motiontodismiss wrote:
Grad09 wrote:Want the easy way out? Go to Dental school.
-same money and job security that doctors have
-9 to 5 workday
-residency isn't as long
-VERY flexible down the road as far as time commitment

A friend of my girlfriend's family owns her own practice, works three days a week for 6 hours, and nets over 250K.

FML.


Yeah, but you have to look at teeth all day.

Off Topic: A senior captain for a major airline will probably net $250k working about 20 hours a week and gets to travel to pretty cool places. But you have to work your way up from $16k a year flying turboprops from Boise to Denver.



New TLS advice born here? Pilot > Med > Law?

Note, however, that some of us on the law school message boards actually picked law because we wanted law, not because we wanted to make money and thought med school was too hard. I mean seriously, who wants to look at dead bodies as part of their schooling?!


"Note, however, that some of us on the law school message boards actually picked law because we wanted law,"

Some of us need to get our heads checked. No way law is cooler than flying an airplane.

Mr. Pablo
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Re: Law or medicine?

Postby Mr. Pablo » Thu May 27, 2010 11:15 am

Yeah, about that pilot salary. My cousin has been flying for a major airline for the past 20 years, and not as some dinky turbo-prop pilot, the guy flies 747s all over the world. He does not make anywhere close to 250k- he might be scratching the bottom of 100k in a few years. Not that this is a bad living by any stretch, but pilots just don't make what they used to. It's kind of what people think of lawyers- you know, how we are all going to be making 200k right out of law school.

motiontodismiss
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Re: Law or medicine?

Postby motiontodismiss » Thu May 27, 2010 11:26 am

At the least we don't get paid poverty wages (assuming we actually get a decent job).....on the other hand Southwest is the Wachtell of piloting. Starting pay is something like $185k and you get to go home every night.

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Borhas
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Re: Law or medicine?

Postby Borhas » Thu May 27, 2010 2:08 pm

SuperFreak wrote:,"

Some of us need to get our heads checked. No way law is cooler than flying an airplane.


at some point it's probably like driving a bus

motiontodismiss
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Re: Law or medicine?

Postby motiontodismiss » Thu May 27, 2010 11:09 pm

Borhas wrote:
SuperFreak wrote:,"

Some of us need to get our heads checked. No way law is cooler than flying an airplane.


at some point it's probably like driving a bus


Only more boring since the computer does everything once you get to cruising altitude.

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stratocophic
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Re: Law or medicine?

Postby stratocophic » Thu May 27, 2010 11:33 pm

motiontodismiss wrote:
Borhas wrote:
SuperFreak wrote:,"

Some of us need to get our heads checked. No way law is cooler than flying an airplane.


at some point it's probably like driving a bus


Only more boring since the computer does everything once you get to cruising altitude.
+1 Being a commercial pilot sounds cool to the uninitiated. Once the procedures and stuff were described to me in detail by someone getting his wings... it sounds like the sort of thing that only stays novel if you're determined to see it as cool (for smaller planes where it's almost all manual, maybe that's not the case). Now if we consider fighter pilots... now we're talking. Although evidently it's less awesome than being a lawn pro. Having driven a ZTR lawn tractor, I'd almost believe it. Seriously. If you haven't driven one, find a big yard, pop in some headphones, and turn the speed setting all the way up.

usna02
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Re: Law or medicine?

Postby usna02 » Sat May 29, 2010 11:11 am

Go become a doctor

confusedball wrote:With jobs in short supply, law or medicine are often the two safe haven paths that people pursue in order to someday earn an upper-middle class living. But going into law hoping for a biglaw position feels increasingly like a gamble today. Similarly, health care reform remains an uncertainty for medicine. With all things considered, how does the balance tilt between the two?

If length of training, salary and hours were the same, would you be a biglaw associate or work as a physician or surgeon?

Don't know which way to go, I've done paralegal work as well as shadowed doctors. Both have pros and cons, but it's difficult to extrapolate that into what it's actually like in biglaw or in the OR and having to deal with the insurance paperwork.

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Re: Law or medicine?

Postby usna02 » Sat May 29, 2010 12:39 pm

+1

tesoro wrote:
confusedball wrote:Say I'm in the top 20% at a T14 or TT school and land myself a biglaw job. How hard is it to keep that job? I've heard attrition rates as high as 50% by third year? Is it true? Are these lateral moves or lay-offs? I'd imagine with the glut we have now, it would be even harder to find a non-biglaw position after a stint at biglaw since those other spots (like government work) are just as coveted now.

Eh


I agree with the above posters re: the above. The thing most of us are stressing, though, is if you go into the medical profession you don't have to play these games. You don't need to analyze the percentages, worry about securing top top grades at top top school, or worry about attrition from a BigLaw job. If you pass your classes at med school, you will have a job. Always.

usna02
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Re: Law or medicine?

Postby usna02 » Sat May 29, 2010 12:45 pm

There are a lot of programs like this, but you better have someone with a lot of $$$ supporting you while you go through it--you CANNOT work while you do a post-bac program--the classes are hard and you need to focus a lot of time and attention in order to get all A's.

TUP wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
shepdawg wrote:If I could do my UG over again, I would have taken classes to allow me to get into dental school. Dentists make a huge chunk of change for the amount of work they actually do.


I doubt it is too late.


It's not, there are dozens of post-bacc pre-med and pre-dental programs out there designed specifically for this situation.

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voice of reason
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Re: Law or medicine?

Postby voice of reason » Sat May 29, 2010 4:04 pm

confusedball wrote: ....I've always felt there was more glamor and mystique in the corporate world and want to step out and explore this other world where "important" people wear suits to work and do deals involving billions of dollars. I know it's a little silly, but I have very little to go by here. Paralegal at a small firm is not quite the same as biglaw.

How glamorous is biglaw in reality?


How much glamor can there be in conservative wingtips and navy/charcoal suits, really? I've never worked on a billion-dollar deal. But I've worked on some million-dollar deals and the lawyer-types involved in those contracts had zero glamor.

Lawyers always work for someone else who calls the shots. The "important" people you have in mind, I believe, are actually the VCs, CEOs, and VPs who decide whether to do deals. Lawyers advise and then do paperwork to make things happen. Not my idea of excitement, but I guess some people like it.

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TUP
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Re: Law or medicine?

Postby TUP » Sat May 29, 2010 5:18 pm

usna02 wrote:There are a lot of programs like this, but you better have someone with a lot of $$$ supporting you while you go through it--you CANNOT work while you do a post-bac program--the classes are hard and you need to focus a lot of time and attention in order to get all A's.

TUP wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
shepdawg wrote:If I could do my UG over again, I would have taken classes to allow me to get into dental school. Dentists make a huge chunk of change for the amount of work they actually do.


I doubt it is too late.


It's not, there are dozens of post-bacc pre-med and pre-dental programs out there designed specifically for this situation.


This is incorrect. Most of the programs last 2 years in which you take 2 classes per semester and work part-time (full-time during the summer) while also volunteering. If a post-bacc student can't handle that workload they have no business even considering medical school. Loans are also available.

Some programs are of the intensive full-year variety (Goucher, Bryn Mawr, etc. come to mind), which are funded by loans and often partially through savings, considering most students have worked a couple years out of undergrad. Students generally do not work during these programs, but are required to volunteer.




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