Law or medicine?

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oberlin08
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Re: Law or medicine?

Postby oberlin08 » Mon May 24, 2010 2:38 pm

TUP wrote:
tesoro wrote:
confusedball wrote:Say I'm in the top 20% at a T14 or TT school and land myself a biglaw job. How hard is it to keep that job? I've heard attrition rates as high as 50% by third year? Is it true? Are these lateral moves or lay-offs? I'd imagine with the glut we have now, it would be even harder to find a non-biglaw position after a stint at biglaw since those other spots (like government work) are just as coveted now.

Eh


I agree with the above posters re: the above. The thing most of us are stressing, though, is if you go into the medical profession you don't have to play these games. You don't need to analyze the percentages, worry about securing top top grades at top top school, or worry about attrition from a BigLaw job. If you pass your classes at med school, you will have a job. Always.


Med students still agonize over grades and reviews on their rotations. Everyone wants to be a sub-specialist and few want to wind up as a PCP. Ambitious, competitive people are rarely satisfied.



In addition, in medicine, some specialities are much harder to get into than others, as are some residencies. There is still a lot of fierce competition, it juts manifests itself differently.

tesoro
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Re: Law or medicine?

Postby tesoro » Mon May 24, 2010 2:42 pm

oberlin08 wrote:
TUP wrote:
tesoro wrote:
confusedball wrote:Say I'm in the top 20% at a T14 or TT school and land myself a biglaw job. How hard is it to keep that job? I've heard attrition rates as high as 50% by third year? Is it true? Are these lateral moves or lay-offs? I'd imagine with the glut we have now, it would be even harder to find a non-biglaw position after a stint at biglaw since those other spots (like government work) are just as coveted now.

Eh


I agree with the above posters re: the above. The thing most of us are stressing, though, is if you go into the medical profession you don't have to play these games. You don't need to analyze the percentages, worry about securing top top grades at top top school, or worry about attrition from a BigLaw job. If you pass your classes at med school, you will have a job. Always.


Med students still agonize over grades and reviews on their rotations. Everyone wants to be a sub-specialist and few want to wind up as a PCP. Ambitious, competitive people are rarely satisfied.



In addition, in medicine, some specialities are much harder to get into than others, as are some residencies. There is still a lot of fierce competition, it juts manifests itself differently.


I absolutely agree with both of you. The guy at the bottom of the pile in medicine doesn't end up doing basement shitlaw doc review and thank god for the opportunity to not be homeless, though. So while stress and competition exist, everyone is secure.

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jks289
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Re: Law or medicine?

Postby jks289 » Mon May 24, 2010 2:42 pm

CanadianWolf wrote:If you have the aptitude & interest required for becoming a physician, then consider medicine over law. I know many unhappy lawyers, I do not know of any doctors who are dissatisfied with their career choice.


I know plenty of unhappy doctors. Burnt out, under constant threat of malpractice litigation, woefully little time with their families. I think there are elements of medicine that are inherently more rewarding than most types of law, but many doctors practice is very difficult and stressful fields.

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TUP
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Re: Law or medicine?

Postby TUP » Mon May 24, 2010 2:44 pm

oberlin08 wrote:
TUP wrote:Med students still agonize over grades and reviews on their rotations. Everyone wants to be a sub-specialist and few want to wind up as a PCP. Ambitious, competitive people are rarely satisfied.



In addition, in medicine, some specialities are much harder to get into than others, as are some residencies. There is still a lot of fierce competition, it juts manifests itself differently.


That's what I was getting at. The difference between a competitive plastic or ortho residency and a family care or pediatrics residency is massive ... Both in how difficult each residency is to get and the long-term financial implications.

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TUP
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Re: Law or medicine?

Postby TUP » Mon May 24, 2010 2:50 pm

tesoro wrote:
oberlin08 wrote:
TUP wrote:Med students still agonize over grades and reviews on their rotations. Everyone wants to be a sub-specialist and few want to wind up as a PCP. Ambitious, competitive people are rarely satisfied.



In addition, in medicine, some specialities are much harder to get into than others, as are some residencies. There is still a lot of fierce competition, it juts manifests itself differently.


I absolutely agree with both of you. The guy at the bottom of the pile in medicine doesn't end up doing basement shitlaw doc review and thank god for the opportunity to not be homeless, though. So while stress and competition exist, everyone is secure.


That's not a remotely fair comparison. The vast majority of law students had no shot at a US MD school even if they would have tried for it. You can't even compare for example T20 students to MD students given the different barriers to entry.

andreea7
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Re: Law or medicine?

Postby andreea7 » Mon May 24, 2010 2:51 pm

confusedball wrote:
andreea7 wrote:And this is why we end up with bad doctors or bad lawyers -- because they choose profession according to $$$ predictions. Whatever you choose, you will excel only if you are truly passionate about it. Otherwise, you will probably be mediocre at best.

I was a passionate piano player all through grade school, until college when I realized there are many other things I'm also passionate about and that I would never be good enough to make a living off the piano. I still enjoy the piano and spend a lot of time on it, but passion evolves.

It's not so simple, this passion, especially when you can't exactly walk in the shoes of what you aspire to be until you're actually in it.


No, it is not simple. It is a process of discovery, that is true. But both doctors and lawyers work with people and have the power to change their lives. So it is not a decision to be taken at the wrong time. I waited until 28 when I knew for sure what I wanted to do. Sometimes you just to wait to get to that point where you know yourself well enough.

tesoro
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Re: Law or medicine?

Postby tesoro » Mon May 24, 2010 2:52 pm

TUP wrote:
tesoro wrote:
oberlin08 wrote:
TUP wrote:Med students still agonize over grades and reviews on their rotations. Everyone wants to be a sub-specialist and few want to wind up as a PCP. Ambitious, competitive people are rarely satisfied.



In addition, in medicine, some specialities are much harder to get into than others, as are some residencies. There is still a lot of fierce competition, it juts manifests itself differently.


I absolutely agree with both of you. The guy at the bottom of the pile in medicine doesn't end up doing basement shitlaw doc review and thank god for the opportunity to not be homeless, though. So while stress and competition exist, everyone is secure.


That's not a remotely fair comparison. The vast majority of law students had no shot at a US MD school even if they would have tried for it. You can't even compare for example T20 students to MD students given the different barriers to entry.


OP is deciding between law and medicine, and therefore that's the lens my replies are framed around. I'm giving reasons why I think medicine is the better option. Why else would we post on this thread?

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Kiersten1985
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Re: Law or medicine?

Postby Kiersten1985 » Mon May 24, 2010 3:01 pm

Still law. Couldn't deal with telling people they have 6 months to live or losing someone in the ER. Residents work crazy hours, equal to if not more than associates. And the pressure is life or death - not fake "life or death" like in law firms.

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NewLobo
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Re: Law or medicine?

Postby NewLobo » Mon May 24, 2010 4:00 pm

TUP wrote:You can't even compare for example T20 students to MD students given the different barriers to entry.

Can you prove this?

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oberlin08
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Re: Law or medicine?

Postby oberlin08 » Mon May 24, 2010 4:04 pm

NewLobo wrote:
TUP wrote:You can't even compare for example T20 students to MD students given the different barriers to entry.

Can you prove this?


Look it up yourself, the process to get into Med School is way different. There are pre-requisite classes, classes that most college students dont take unless they know they want to go to med school. There's the MCAT, which in my opinion is much much more knowledge based than the LSAT which depends more on how hard you work at it.

I think I also heard some friends mention that most med schools have interview processes too, and a lot of law schools dont.

I just think they are really uncomparable, and a lot of people opt for law school bc it seems on the surface that it's "easiest" path to $100k+

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NewLobo
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Re: Law or medicine?

Postby NewLobo » Mon May 24, 2010 4:12 pm

oberlin08 wrote:
way different.
really uncomparable,

I picked out the important words for you. They are for people with two very different skill and mind sets. To say that the average med student is better then a T20 law student is pretty persumptuous.

acrossthelake
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Re: Law or medicine?

Postby acrossthelake » Mon May 24, 2010 4:19 pm

NewLobo wrote:
oberlin08 wrote:
way different.
really uncomparable,

I picked out the important words for you. They are for people with two very different skill and mind sets. To say that the average med student is better then a T20 law student is pretty persumptuous.


The average med student is probably better than the average law student though. Barriers to entry are just a lot higher for med school than law school. Different skills, sure, but "mindsets", how? I'm gonna do way better in the law school admissions process than I would've in the med school admissons process, partially because I'm better suited for law, but also because med school looks at a lot more.

tesoro
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Re: Law or medicine?

Postby tesoro » Mon May 24, 2010 4:24 pm

acrossthelake wrote:
NewLobo wrote:
oberlin08 wrote:
way different.
really uncomparable,

I picked out the important words for you. They are for people with two very different skill and mind sets. To say that the average med student is better then a T20 law student is pretty persumptuous.


The average med student is probably better than the average law student though.


This thread is getting quickly derailed.

Who cares whether law students or med students are of "better calibre"? The barriers to entry are also not relevant. OP wants help choosing which field to go into. OP states he/she is able to enter either profession based on grades earned in UG and prerequisite coursework being satisfied. The tangent we're running down is neither useful to OP nor interesting or valuable to us as a whole.

We did a pretty good job outlining pros and cons for both, including a discussion regarding residency, years of paying ones dues, intense competition, job security... why don't we stay in line with this or decide it's time to /thread?

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DoubleChecks
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Re: Law or medicine?

Postby DoubleChecks » Mon May 24, 2010 4:28 pm

NewLobo wrote:
oberlin08 wrote:
way different.
really uncomparable,

I picked out the important words for you. They are for people with two very different skill and mind sets. To say that the average med student is better then a T20 law student is pretty persumptuous.


that is a bit presumptuous, but to say the avg law student is < the avg med student is pretty safe imo

i mean, unless you're going to bring up the whole "intelligence manifests in different ways, even the garbage man is..." bullshit, well then everything is off limits to comparison
Last edited by DoubleChecks on Mon May 24, 2010 4:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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DoubleChecks
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Re: Law or medicine?

Postby DoubleChecks » Mon May 24, 2010 4:29 pm

tesoro wrote:
acrossthelake wrote:
NewLobo wrote:
oberlin08 wrote:
way different.
really uncomparable,

I picked out the important words for you. They are for people with two very different skill and mind sets. To say that the average med student is better then a T20 law student is pretty persumptuous.


The average med student is probably better than the average law student though.


This thread is getting quickly derailed.

Who cares whether law students or med students are of "better calibre"? The barriers to entry are also not relevant. OP wants help choosing which field to go into. OP states he/she is able to enter either profession based on grades earned in UG and prerequisite coursework being satisfied. The tangent we're running down is neither useful to OP nor interesting or valuable to us as a whole.

We did a pretty good job outlining pros and cons for both, including a discussion regarding residency, years of paying ones dues, intense competition, job security... why don't we stay in line with this or decide it's time to /thread?


yeah you're right, sorry. it is just sometimes hard to contain oneself :P

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Knock
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Re: Law or medicine?

Postby Knock » Mon May 24, 2010 4:46 pm

Do whatever you're more likely to excel at relative to your peers.

/thread

Grad09
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Re: Law or medicine?

Postby Grad09 » Mon May 24, 2010 5:33 pm

DoubleChecks wrote:
NewLobo wrote:
oberlin08 wrote:
way different.
really uncomparable,

I picked out the important words for you. They are for people with two very different skill and mind sets. To say that the average med student is better then a T20 law student is pretty persumptuous.


that is a bit presumptuous, but to say the avg law student is < the avg med student is pretty safe imo

i mean, unless you're going to bring up the whole "intelligence manifests in different ways, even the garbage man is..." bullshit, well then everything is off limits to comparison


I might agree that the average med student > average law student, but only because there are far more stringent requirements in opening new med schools than new law schools. There are almost twice as many med schools as there are law schools. Because med prerequisites are very specific, you can't just decide to go to med school a few months before you graduate college. Law school, as we all know, is a completely different story.

Now, compare the quality of students at the top 10 law and med schools-- I'm willing to say they are even.

Security-wise, of course medicine is safer. Any and every doctor can make over 100K.
There is nowhere near the same competition that lawyers face. I think it'll be interesting to see how medicine fairs as the industry becomes less privatized.

Honestly, given the hours/lifestyle/sacrifices, they both kinda suck. You have to be passionate about it.

Want the easy way out? Go to Dental school.
-same money and job security that doctors have
-9 to 5 workday
-residency isn't as long
-VERY flexible down the road as far as time commitment

A friend of my girlfriend's family owns her own practice, works three days a week for 6 hours, and nets over 250K.

FML.

motiontodismiss
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Re: Law or medicine?

Postby motiontodismiss » Mon May 24, 2010 5:41 pm

If I actually had the interest in science required for med school, I'd go and then go into an easy specialty like pediatrics. Or dermatology. It's very hard to kill people when none of the medications you prescribe is to be ingested.

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DoubleChecks
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Re: Law or medicine?

Postby DoubleChecks » Mon May 24, 2010 5:46 pm

Grad09 wrote:I might agree that the average med student > average law student, but only because there are far more stringent requirements in opening new med schools than new law schools. There are almost twice as many med schools as there are law schools. Because med prerequisites are very specific, you can't just decide to go to med school a few months before you graduate college. Law school, as we all know, is a completely different story.


um you mean almost twice as many law schools as med schools right? lol

Grad09 wrote:Now, compare the quality of students at the top 10 law and med schools-- I'm willing to say they are even.


possible, but id just be guessing, so im not really willing to say that (not saying i disagree w/ you though)

Grad09 wrote:Want the easy way out? Go to Dental school.
-same money and job security that doctors have
-9 to 5 workday
-residency isn't as long
-VERY flexible down the road as far as time commitment

A friend of my girlfriend's family owns her own practice, works three days a week for 6 hours, and nets over 250K.

FML.


YES! +1. i have said this a lot on TLS, mainly a reflection of my actual life though, where i say it almost daily :P

kgirl
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Re: Law or medicine?

Postby kgirl » Mon May 24, 2010 5:54 pm

your post could not be more timely. I was a life science major, completed grad school in bio science; here I am in the summer of my second year of law school hoping to get some IP experience in a law firm but to no avail; I am not sure if it's because of the economy or just that the IP/patent market is saturated or both. I have a strong resume but my LS grades are mediocre somewhere in the middle. That's what I believe has hurt me a lot; I do have high LS grades here and there but overall mediocre. So I gave up applying to firms. It doesn't make sense for a science person to be in law school without doing IP because it's the only field where u can use ur education background. I think given my experience, only medical school makes the most sense if IP/patent doesn't pan out.

Right now, yes law school is a huge gamble; is it worth it? Well some people will say it is. But I am really on the fence about that. LS is a lot of hard work, sucks the energy out of you, and definitely $ and the reward is little to none unless you are one of a few people to land $160K at graduation (there are folks in my school in the Class of 2010 who have done that; and they graduated either Order of the Coif or summa cum laude). That's just how competitive you have to be.

If you have what it takes, definitely go for medical school!

Mr. Pablo
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Re: Law or medicine?

Postby Mr. Pablo » Mon May 24, 2010 5:55 pm

DoubleChecks wrote:
Grad09 wrote:I might agree that the average med student > average law student, but only because there are far more stringent requirements in opening new med schools than new law schools. There are almost twice as many med schools as there are law schools. Because med prerequisites are very specific, you can't just decide to go to med school a few months before you graduate college. Law school, as we all know, is a completely different story.


um you mean almost twice as many law schools as med schools right? lol

Grad09 wrote:Now, compare the quality of students at the top 10 law and med schools-- I'm willing to say they are even.


possible, but id just be guessing, so im not really willing to say that (not saying i disagree w/ you though)

Grad09 wrote:Want the easy way out? Go to Dental school.
-same money and job security that doctors have
-9 to 5 workday
-residency isn't as long
-VERY flexible down the road as far as time commitment

A friend of my girlfriend's family owns her own practice, works three days a week for 6 hours, and nets over 250K.

FML.


YES! +1. i have said this a lot on TLS, mainly a reflection of my actual life though, where i say it almost daily :P

Sure you can make a lot as a dentist, but then again, you have to be a dentist. I think dentistry might be the most boring field of medicine. I laugh at dentistry. Ha!

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shepdawg
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Re: Law or medicine?

Postby shepdawg » Mon May 24, 2010 5:59 pm

If I could do my UG over again, I would have taken classes to allow me to get into dental school. Dentists make a huge chunk of change for the amount of work they actually do.

motiontodismiss
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Re: Law or medicine?

Postby motiontodismiss » Mon May 24, 2010 6:20 pm

Grad09 wrote:Want the easy way out? Go to Dental school.
-same money and job security that doctors have
-9 to 5 workday
-residency isn't as long
-VERY flexible down the road as far as time commitment

A friend of my girlfriend's family owns her own practice, works three days a week for 6 hours, and nets over 250K.

FML.


Yeah, but you have to look at teeth all day.

Off Topic: A senior captain for a major airline will probably net $250k working about 20 hours a week and gets to travel to pretty cool places. But you have to work your way up from $16k a year flying turboprops from Boise to Denver.

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NewLobo
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Re: Law or medicine?

Postby NewLobo » Mon May 24, 2010 6:33 pm

motiontodismiss wrote:Off Topic: A senior captain for a major airline will probably net $250k working about 20 hours a week and gets to travel to pretty cool places. But you have to work your way up from $16k a year flying turboprops from Boise to Denver.

They only fly 20-30 hrs a week. However, they do have other tasks to perform. It is sad how much starting pilots earn after investing so much time and money to obtain their licences.

09042014
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Re: Law or medicine?

Postby 09042014 » Mon May 24, 2010 6:45 pm

shepdawg wrote:If I could do my UG over again, I would have taken classes to allow me to get into dental school. Dentists make a huge chunk of change for the amount of work they actually do.


I doubt it is too late.




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