UC Irvine Law Ranking

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d34d9823
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Re: UC Irvine Law Ranking

Postby d34d9823 » Fri May 21, 2010 5:11 pm

flcath wrote:UCI is doing everything right for a new LS: keep the class sizes small (allows for better student numbers, and a smaller--and thus more reputable--faculty), stock up on enough splitters and reverse splitters to game the numbers, go for quality over quantity in every aspect, hire a prominent dean to game the peer assessments, etc.

However, the idea that this will make it a Top 20 school is indeed laughable, and richly deserves the mockery that is brought down upon it in classrooms and law offices across the country. None of this is talking shit about UCI--which as I said is quite impressive objectively--but about the over-the-top claims of some of the people on here.

That having been said, the retards who believe this will not suddenly stop believing this in the face of overwhelming evidence and common sense, so I guess we'll have to wait for the rankings to put an end to this idiotic cult. Please do not commit mass suicides when your Tier 2 school is ouTTTed for what it really is.


Until then, have fun studying for the baby bar!

Do you know how the US News methodology works? Take a look: http://www.usnews.com/education/best-graduate-schools/articles/2008/03/26/law-methodology.html

Say what you want about whether they're preparing their students for success, but they are for sure gaming the rankings perfectly. Seriously, if you look at each category, the only one they're not going to debut at T20 in is the practitioner assessments.

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Mr. Matlock
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Re: UC Irvine Law Ranking

Postby Mr. Matlock » Fri May 21, 2010 5:17 pm

flcath wrote:UCI is doing everything right for a new LS: keep the class sizes small (allows for better student numbers, and a smaller--and thus more reputable--faculty), stock up on enough splitters and reverse splitters to game the numbers, go for quality over quantity in every aspect, hire a prominent dean to game the peer assessments, etc.

However, the idea that this will make it a Top 20 school is indeed laughable, and richly deserves the mockery that is brought down upon it in classrooms and law offices across the country. None of this is talking shit about UCI--which as I said is quite impressive objectively--but about the over-the-top claims of some of the people on here.

That having been said, the retards who believe this will not suddenly stop believing this in the face of overwhelming evidence and common sense, so I guess we'll have to wait for the rankings to put an end to this idiotic cult. Please do not commit mass suicides when your Tier 2 school is ouTTTed for what it really is.


Until then, have fun studying for the baby bar!

Ummm... they don't have to take the baby bar.

For everything else, the picture will be much clearer in a couple of years when incoming students will be paying $50,000 and more per year. God bless the fuctards who manage California. If they can keep up the #'s after that, more power to them.

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Re: UC Irvine Law Ranking

Postby flcath » Fri May 21, 2010 5:23 pm

d34dluk3 wrote:
flcath wrote:UCI is doing everything right for a new LS: keep the class sizes small (allows for better student numbers, and a smaller--and thus more reputable--faculty), stock up on enough splitters and reverse splitters to game the numbers, go for quality over quantity in every aspect, hire a prominent dean to game the peer assessments, etc.

However, the idea that this will make it a Top 20 school is indeed laughable, and richly deserves the mockery that is brought down upon it in classrooms and law offices across the country. None of this is talking shit about UCI--which as I said is quite impressive objectively--but about the over-the-top claims of some of the people on here.

That having been said, the retards who believe this will not suddenly stop believing this in the face of overwhelming evidence and common sense, so I guess we'll have to wait for the rankings to put an end to this idiotic cult. Please do not commit mass suicides when your Tier 2 school is ouTTTed for what it really is.


Until then, have fun studying for the baby bar!

Do you know how the US News methodology works? Take a look: http://www.usnews.com/education/best-graduate-schools/articles/2008/03/26/law-methodology.html

Say what you want about whether they're preparing their students for success, but they are for sure gaming the rankings perfectly. Seriously, if you look at each category, the only one they're not going to debut at T20 in is the practitioner assessments.

A school can only make excuses for its grads uniformly working in shitlaw for so long. Eventually they'll have to answer for that. I mean really, I actually admire how they're doing this (I can't say I'm happy about it, since we all pretty much agree there's too many LSs already), but the idea that they're going to leapfrog schools that have been established for decades--and the T20, while more nebulous, is just as old and established as the vaunted T13--is just unrealistic. And then the pathetic "we're just trying to hype up our school, why don't you leave us alone?" argument just doesn't hold water; have you been on this site? Boalt kids caught mad shit over the whole T6 thing last year (and Boalt is a *real* law school--like, accredited and everything); now a current Tier 5 is talking about being Top 20?

What you are doing is only different from what Cooley does by a matter of degree, and the response you get befits that.

Lastly, lagging in "just one" category will have an immense impact on the overall ranking. Schools have dropped ten places because they fucked up YP one year, or had PT numbers included, or under-reported expenditures per student.

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Re: UC Irvine Law Ranking

Postby flcath » Fri May 21, 2010 5:26 pm

Mr. Matlock wrote:Ummm... they don't have to take the baby bar.

Yeah I was being snotty. Srry.

d34d9823
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Re: UC Irvine Law Ranking

Postby d34d9823 » Fri May 21, 2010 5:29 pm

flcath wrote:A school can only make excuses for its grads uniformly working in shitlaw for so long. Eventually they'll have to answer for that.

Dude, you're moving the goalposts. I specifically said something similar in my post. The question was whether they can debut in the T20 or not.

flcath wrote:What you are doing is only different from what Cooley does by a matter of degree, and the response you get befits that.

"I" am not going to UCI, nor will I. I just think they're making a good effort and don't deserve to get ripped by every guy at a TTT school in Cali because they're jealous.

flcath wrote:Lastly, lagging in "just one" category will have an immense impact on the overall ranking. Schools have dropped ten places because they fucked up YP one year, or had PT numbers included, or under-reported expenditures per student.

This is a good point, we'll see I guess.

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bk1
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Re: UC Irvine Law Ranking

Postby bk1 » Fri May 21, 2010 5:34 pm

While gaming the rankings is gaming the rankings, I think there is a difference between attempting to insert yourself into the top 30 (or 20 or T1 or whatever) and T3/T4 schools jockeying to jump up/down a tier (i.e. talking about moving between T2/T3/T4 like it matters).
Last edited by bk1 on Fri May 21, 2010 5:43 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Matthies
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Re: UC Irvine Law Ranking

Postby Matthies » Fri May 21, 2010 5:39 pm

You all got some serious inferiority complexes in this thread, t6, t20, TTTT. WTF? Go do something with your lives rather than clinging to or deriving your personal self worth from the name of the school you are attending. Unless you're going to read their cases, do their exams, take their bar and find a job for them worry about your own damn lives. :shock:

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Re: UC Irvine Law Ranking

Postby d34d9823 » Fri May 21, 2010 5:44 pm

Matthies wrote:You all got some serious inferiority complexes in this thread, t6, t20, TTTT. WTF? Go do something with your lives rather than clinging to or deriving your personal self worth from the name of the school you are attending. Unless you're going to read their cases, do their exams, take their bar and find a job for them worry about your own damn lives. :shock:

Credited, but this is an internet forum. These things exist so that people can weigh in on stuff that's none of their business.

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Matthies
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Re: UC Irvine Law Ranking

Postby Matthies » Fri May 21, 2010 5:48 pm

d34dluk3 wrote:
Matthies wrote:You all got some serious inferiority complexes in this thread, t6, t20, TTTT. WTF? Go do something with your lives rather than clinging to or deriving your personal self worth from the name of the school you are attending. Unless you're going to read their cases, do their exams, take their bar and find a job for them worry about your own damn lives. :shock:

Credited, but this is an internet forum. These things exist so that people can weigh in on stuff that's none of their business.


That's what Something Awful is for, this thread is predicting the future

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1800calturk
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Re: UC Irvine Law Ranking

Postby 1800calturk » Fri May 21, 2010 8:54 pm

SandyC877 wrote:
1800calturk wrote:I am annoyed with UCI posts like this, especially since UCI admits like to throw out "UCI IS TOP 20!" and then freakishly lash out at anyone with a contrary opinion to their very contestable opinion. Dante has a strong opinion, and he's attacked personally for it. I was practically chased out of the UCI admissions thread for saying that UCI isn't "the one" that's going to somehow save us from the rankings Matrix we're all trapped in.

There's little point to these posts. Everyone's agendas are pretty clear, and proponents are only trying to make themselves feel good about their choice or otherwise think admissions offices read their posts and will give them an advantage in next year's cycle. Detractors are mostly being negative so that they can say "I told you so" if the ranking doesn't pan out, and they can just shrink away behind anonymity if it does, or they're bitter at more competition.

I don't think many people are arguing that UCI's influence isn't going to be regional, so the really interesting question regardless of rankings, is how are employers going to treat UCI lawyers relative to the powerhouses of the region. And no, UCI isn't a bastion of law in some OC legal market vacuum like they'd have you believe, it's competing for a piece of the same SoCal market that UCLA and USC are dominating. To say that UCI is going to stomp all over UCLA is ridiculous, ESPECIALLY because they are in the same undergrad system and they're using the power of UCs as one of their arguments, and to say that UCLA grads stay in LA and recoil from working in Orange is also ridiculous. UCLA grads can and do work in Orange. USC grads can and do work in Orange.

And as to hurting lower ranked schools, yeah it does. Because throwing another school into the mix in SoCal may or may not add more lawyers to the pool, but it definitely draws more lawyers into the SoCal market that otherwise might've gone somewhere else in the country, so it makes sense that people feel threatened.

To address the OP's post, I have no idea what the rankings will be. I'm inclined to think it's somewhere between what the naysayers project and the hype projects. And although I'm sure I'd be waving that flag as hard as the next guy if I had decided to attend UCI, from a now-unbiased prospective, the hype is a bit out of control. I sure as heck did not turn down a T14 for UCI, and they don't like my opinions on their admission thread because they can't attack me personally about my school and I'm not bitter about competition; I'm not even going after jobs on the same side of the country.


Rankings are formulated, and to a large degree manipulable. With the right amount of money and numbers, it can be bought. I don't think UCI TLSers are saying "hey we're better than UCLA and we're going to trash on all the TTs and TTTs." I haven't seen that. Please show me. But they are excited about their choice of school and want to see it succeed. They want to see their school ranked as high as possible. Who doesn't and what's wrong with that?

BTW, aren't you the same guy on UCI Law 2013 thread who desperately kissed ass and praised UCI when u got in, talked about housing options and ASD, then once u got into Cal, you came back to the same thread to talk trash? I read the thread. No one chased you out. You just came off sounding like a total dick.

Count your blessings and move on with your life. You've done well so save us your personal distaste. Meanwhile, you don't have to give us more reasons to laugh at your academic insecurities.


I have heard the rhetoric of "most haters are just TTTs who are bitter at their denials", there's a post like that somewhere on here right now. I'm here to say that I don't buy in to the hype, and just cause some of us disagree about the projected rankings (the topic of this thread btw), doesn't mean we're bitter. TTTs are future lawyers, and it seems reasonable that they have an opinion on something that affects the law community. I assume we're all trying to get into law because we enjoy arguing. I'm just a guy with an opinion and very little to do now that I've graduated. I have NOTHING against UCI or its students. I DO believe the hype is overexaggerated, and to the poster who agrees with Ken about being Top 20, Ken is projecting in the 20's, which would still be an amazing and impressive feat.

And way to prove me wrong about the personal attacks. Of course you "read the thread" you are one of the rabid proponents I'm talking about. I have never hated on UCI, and I wish all its students the best. Hopefully the good UCI posters I named will be able to carve out a new reputation for UCI posters on TLS, because right now all the UCI admits who are just staying out of it are getting a pretty bad rap from posters like you.

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tru
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Re: UC Irvine Law Ranking

Postby tru » Fri May 21, 2010 10:18 pm

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Last edited by tru on Fri May 20, 2016 3:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

SandyC877
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Re: UC Irvine Law Ranking

Postby SandyC877 » Fri May 21, 2010 10:57 pm

a
Last edited by SandyC877 on Fri Jun 04, 2010 4:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Grizz
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Re: UC Irvine Law Ranking

Postby Grizz » Sat May 22, 2010 2:27 am

1800calturk wrote:I assume we're all trying to get into law because we enjoy arguing.


Shitty reason to go to lawl school.

HTH

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Re: UC Irvine Law Ranking

Postby ViP » Sat May 22, 2010 2:40 am

flcath wrote:UCI is doing everything right for a new LS: keep the class sizes small (allows for better student numbers, and a smaller--and thus more reputable--faculty), stock up on enough splitters and reverse splitters to game the numbers, go for quality over quantity in every aspect, hire a prominent dean to game the peer assessments, etc.

However, the idea that this will make it a Top 20 school is indeed laughable, and richly deserves the mockery that is brought down upon it in classrooms and law offices across the country. None of this is talking shit about UCI--which as I said is quite impressive objectively--but about the over-the-top claims of some of the people on here.

That having been said, the retards who believe this will not suddenly stop believing this in the face of overwhelming evidence and common sense, so I guess we'll have to wait for the rankings to put an end to this idiotic cult. Please do not commit mass suicides when your Tier 2 school is ouTTTed for what it really is.

Until then, have fun studying for the baby bar!


Can you substantiate this claim? Aren't you a 0L?

As I mentioned earlier, a T20 corporate law professor told me that while he has no idea how employers perceive UCI, he can certainly verify that many professors at "top schools" are very much impressed and intrigued by UCI, and they expect big things from Chemerinsky and his crew of top-notch professors. He said "it very much looks like it's going to be a top school."

Of course, my point is not that UCI is a top school because top professors/schools say so, but rather that your assertion that UCI is mocked on law school campuses across the country doesn't seem to be grounded in reality.

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1ferret!
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Re: UC Irvine Law Ranking

Postby 1ferret! » Sat May 22, 2010 3:01 am

Good lord, how is this thread still alive? Someone kill it....

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Aberzombie1892
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Re: UC Irvine Law Ranking

Postby Aberzombie1892 » Sat May 22, 2010 4:19 am

ViP wrote:Can you substantiate this claim? Aren't you a 0L?

As I mentioned earlier, a T20 corporate law professor told me that while he has no idea how employers perceive UCI, he can certainly verify that many professors at "top schools" are very much impressed and intrigued by UCI, and they expect big things from Chemerinsky and his crew of top-notch professors. He said "it very much looks like it's going to be a top school."

Of course, my point is not that UCI is a top school because top professors/schools say so, but rather that your assertion that UCI is mocked on law school campuses across the country doesn't seem to be grounded in reality.


Well he stated that it is mocked in the classroom and law offices.

It is mocked in the classrooms by students.

It is mocked in the law offices by graduates of existing law schools.

I think that is what the poster meant.

Law professors are [insert a joke in bad taste here] themselves over UCI.

Oh and no one said that UCI won't be a "top" school. It just won't likely land in top 30. And if it does (due to artificially low acceptance rates, artificially high expenditures per student, artificially low student-faculty ratio, accurately etc.), it likely won't remain there without continuing these "artificial" boosts to game the ranking. There is nothing wrong with the school at all, and I am not trying to say that there is.

However I doubt many logical individuals would pay full price for UCI over USC or UCLA (which, along with Hastings and Davis, would be UCI's primary competitors). Not only that, but realize that if UCI debuts in the 20s it will (at best) be the 5th best law school in California (assuming it beats Davis). If it debuts in the 30s it may be either the 6th or 7th (after Davis and Hastings). I'm not sure if you are aware of this, but the 6th and 7th best schools in NY get a lot of...on these boards. UCI will be a good regional CA school. That's not a bad thing.

Don't get me wrong, UCI has pretty much already accomplished the unimaginable.

It has:
1) attracted students with high gpa/lsats to go to an unaccredited school
2) pretty much secured itself a spot in the "1st Tier." For a brand new program, that is impressive (even if they gamed the rankings in every way imaginable).

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bk1
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Re: UC Irvine Law Ranking

Postby bk1 » Sat May 22, 2010 5:34 am

rad law wrote:
1800calturk wrote:I assume we're all trying to get into law because we enjoy arguing.


Shitty reason to go to lawl school.

HTH


Good reason to be on the internet.

HTH

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clintonius
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Re: UC Irvine Law Ranking

Postby clintonius » Sat May 22, 2010 12:03 pm

Daytukrjabs wrote:
flcath wrote:UCI is doing everything right for a new LS: keep the class sizes small (allows for better student numbers, and a smaller--and thus more reputable--faculty), stock up on enough splitters and reverse splitters to game the numbers, go for quality over quantity in every aspect, hire a prominent dean to game the peer assessments, etc.

However, the idea that this will make it a Top 20 school is indeed laughable, and richly deserves the mockery that is brought down upon it in classrooms and law offices across the country. None of this is talking shit about UCI--which as I said is quite impressive objectively--but about the over-the-top claims of some of the people on here.

That having been said, the retards who believe this will not suddenly stop believing this in the face of overwhelming evidence and common sense, so I guess we'll have to wait for the rankings to put an end to this idiotic cult. Please do not commit mass suicides when your Tier 2 school is ouTTTed for what it really is.


Until then, have fun studying for the baby bar!


Why? USNWR Rankings have manipulable formulas. Half of what goes into the ranking, especially class size, stats, library seats etc, can be controlled by the school. As for reputation portion of the ranking, you'd be an idiot to dismiss UCI's already highly respected faculty and curriculum. UCI has both of these major criteria.

Other than your doomed speculation, what do you have to offer to back up your claim?

Love the nod to the Cooley system. UCI is sure to be t10 by that metric.

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Re: UC Irvine Law Ranking

Postby ViP » Sat May 22, 2010 12:34 pm

Aberzombie1892 wrote:
ViP wrote:Can you substantiate this claim? Aren't you a 0L?

As I mentioned earlier, a T20 corporate law professor told me that while he has no idea how employers perceive UCI, he can certainly verify that many professors at "top schools" are very much impressed and intrigued by UCI, and they expect big things from Chemerinsky and his crew of top-notch professors. He said "it very much looks like it's going to be a top school."

Of course, my point is not that UCI is a top school because top professors/schools say so, but rather that your assertion that UCI is mocked on law school campuses across the country doesn't seem to be grounded in reality.


Well he stated that it is mocked in the classroom and law offices.

It is mocked in the classrooms by students.

It is mocked in the law offices by graduates of existing law schools.

I think that is what the poster meant.


.....


Ah, well if that's what he meant, I have even less belief in its accuracy.

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Re: UC Irvine Law Ranking

Postby psyers » Sat May 22, 2010 1:42 pm

Actually, a litigation director at the ACLU, several partners at a midtown firm, 5 different law profs from 4 different schools suggested I attend UCI. Each is very optimistic about UCI rankings and expect it to debut in upper T1.

Separately, you are a very ugly person. "Mass suicide?" No, you're not talking shit at all.

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Re: UC Irvine Law Ranking

Postby Pearalegal » Sat May 22, 2010 1:51 pm

psyers wrote:Actually, a litigation director at the ACLU, several partners at a midtown firm, 5 different law profs from 4 different schools suggested I attend UCI. Each is very optimistic about UCI rankings and expect it to debut in upper T1.

Separately, you are a very ugly person. "Mass suicide?" No, you're not talking shit at all.


The actual litigators mentoned the rankings? My associates and partners always get sort of a blank look on their face whenever we law applicants discuss such things.

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Grizz
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Re: UC Irvine Law Ranking

Postby Grizz » Sat May 22, 2010 2:20 pm

Pearalegal wrote:
psyers wrote:Actually, a litigation director at the ACLU, several partners at a midtown firm, 5 different law profs from 4 different schools suggested I attend UCI. Each is very optimistic about UCI rankings and expect it to debut in upper T1.

Separately, you are a very ugly person. "Mass suicide?" No, you're not talking shit at all.


The actual litigators mentoned the rankings? My associates and partners always get sort of a blank look on their face whenever we law applicants discuss such things.


Seriously. A plurality of lawyers I talked to told me to go to UF.

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Mr. Matlock
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Re: UC Irvine Law Ranking

Postby Mr. Matlock » Sat May 22, 2010 3:29 pm

rad law wrote:
Pearalegal wrote:
psyers wrote:Actually, a litigation director at the ACLU, several partners at a midtown firm, 5 different law profs from 4 different schools suggested I attend UCI. Each is very optimistic about UCI rankings and expect it to debut in upper T1.

Separately, you are a very ugly person. "Mass suicide?" No, you're not talking shit at all.


The actual litigators mentoned the rankings? My associates and partners always get sort of a blank look on their face whenever we law applicants discuss such things.


Seriously. A plurality of lawyers I talked to told me to go to UF.

Fuck Florida and its reasonably priced state school options. Fuck it all to hell I say!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :evil: :evil: :evil:

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tru
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Re: UC Irvine Law Ranking

Postby tru » Sat May 22, 2010 4:45 pm

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Borhas
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Re: UC Irvine Law Ranking

Postby Borhas » Sat May 22, 2010 4:46 pm

Daytukrjabs wrote:Only if these naysayers weren't from UCD, UCH, Southwestern, or Loyola I'd remotely even consider taking them seriously. It's going to be very hard for them to take it all in once UC Irvine bests their school in the rankings. :lol:

--ImageRemoved--


hey bro, it's not our fault people going to schools outside the region never heard of UCI :mrgreen:




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