So this is pretty funny.

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kalvano
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Re: So this is pretty funny.

Postby kalvano » Thu May 20, 2010 5:54 pm

Matthies wrote:
kalvano wrote:No, I don't think they can. It's not a debt you're obligated to pay, like a revolving line of credit.

Nothing says you have to pay a deposit.


Wait what? Yes nothing says you have to PAY a deposite, but I thought he already PAID the deposit, they just had not chased it yet.



He sent in the check, but they never bothered to cash it.

Once he decided to withdraw, all of sudden they decided to cash it.

Nothing about that can be reported to the credit bureau.

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Matthies
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Re: So this is pretty funny.

Postby Matthies » Thu May 20, 2010 5:59 pm

kalvano wrote:
Matthies wrote:
kalvano wrote:No, I don't think they can. It's not a debt you're obligated to pay, like a revolving line of credit.

Nothing says you have to pay a deposit.


Wait what? Yes nothing says you have to PAY a deposite, but I thought he already PAID the deposit, they just had not chased it yet.



He sent in the check, but they never bothered to cash it.

Once he decided to withdraw, all of sudden they decided to cash it.

Nothing about that can be reported to the credit bureau.


So he sent the check to hold his seat, they held his seat in consideration of him sending a check (and I',m assuming this check was included with a form that said the check was for a deposit to attend the school?) they then try to deposit it, it won't clear, they are still due that money, coulnd't they report to a credit agency as being a balnce due?

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kalvano
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Re: So this is pretty funny.

Postby kalvano » Thu May 20, 2010 6:03 pm

No, they can't. He doesn't technically owe them money. All they can do is revoke his seat.

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Re: So this is pretty funny.

Postby d34d9823 » Thu May 20, 2010 6:12 pm

kalvano wrote:No, they can't. He doesn't technically owe them money. All they can do is revoke his seat.

I'd want to read the terms of the deposit form.

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Matthies
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Re: So this is pretty funny.

Postby Matthies » Thu May 20, 2010 6:12 pm

kalvano wrote:No, they can't. He doesn't technically owe them money. All they can do is revoke his seat.


I dunno, I seem to remember my despot saying it was non refunable. I know when someone gives me a depsoit to rent one of my places I hold that deposit until they move in, and deducting from thier total move in costs. but by leaving a depsot they are agreeing to rent my place and I'm agreeing to hold it for them and not rent it out to anyone else. If they later change thier mind, and decide not to rent my place, then as the recipt i gave them says, theat depsoit is do in consideration of me taking the unit off the market and holding it for them. I don't see a seat deposit being that diffrent. Until he telles them he is not attending they can not give that seat to someone esle. Once he does tell them that, then if the depsot was non refunadble given in cosnideration of saving hima seat they are owned that money. If the aparment depsot check bounces I'm reporting it to the crdit buerue, not becuase I really need that $100 or whatever, but becuase that's how I and other landlords, running thier credit, know if someone as ripped us off or woes rent or a depsoit to anuther landlord and thus is not a good credit risk.

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kalvano
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Re: So this is pretty funny.

Postby kalvano » Thu May 20, 2010 6:14 pm

I suppose it's technically possible, but I've seen a few thousand credit reports and never seen that. Including a ton of lawyers.

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Bronte
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Re: So this is pretty funny.

Postby Bronte » Thu May 20, 2010 6:19 pm

A'nold wrote:
Bronte wrote:
fiftyonefifty wrote:No. If he don't give the school the money, then the school doesn't offer him a spot in the class.

This wouldn't be any different from a school requesting a deposit and someone doesn't have the funds to pay for it. The school will just give the seat to someone else.


He promised them payment in the form of the check. He already received his end of the deal in the form of a reserved seat. I don't understand why this is so confusing.

Whether or not he has the right to stop payment on the check is a completely separate issue from the seat deposit. He purchased the right to a seat in class, which is the same purchasing a stock option or a dishwasher. He has no per se right to get his money back.

On the other hand, there may be a period after which any outstanding check expires, whether it was written for a seat deposit, a stock option, or a dishwasher. It appears, however, that that period is traditionally six months: http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/2008/ ... t-a-check/.

What if they extended a seat to him on the basis of the receipt of his deposit check?


They did!


If you are a 0L, you have no idea what awaits you in the form of the socratic method if you ever say anything like the bolded above.


I know it sounds like it, but I'm not trying to make a legal argument. I'm just trying to negate this idea that his withdrawal from the school has anything to do with his right to cancel the check. I think a number of posters don't understand the purpose of a seat deposit.

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Re: So this is pretty funny.

Postby d34d9823 » Thu May 20, 2010 6:26 pm

kalvano wrote:I suppose it's technically possible, but I've seen a few thousand credit reports and never seen that. Including a ton of lawyers.

This is probably pretty rare though. You'd have to have:

1. School forgets to cash check (1 in a 1000?)
2. Student deposits two places (1 in 50?)

So my complete half-assed estimate is that you'd have 50,000 credit reports of lawyers before one of these came up.

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Matthies
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Re: So this is pretty funny.

Postby Matthies » Thu May 20, 2010 6:28 pm

kalvano wrote:I suppose it's technically possible, but I've seen a few thousand credit reports and never seen that. Including a ton of lawyers.


This could be because the Bar examiners ask you do you have any outstanding liens/debts/child support/other obligations. They can refuse to give you a license because of this or require to pay them off or make payment arraignments with your creditor before they do. They also pull your credit report. Seems like breaking a contract, with a law school, then calling you bank and having them refuse to honor a check you agreed was a non refundable deposit, then not paying that for three years, might be something they would find a bit concerning about your ability to be a fiduciary for your clients money or willingness to pay your debts. Something a law school would certainly know could affect your C&F. So maybe you don't see this on lawyers credit reports, because well, they did not do this. Go run some credit reports for law students who did not get admitted and let us know if this comes up! :twisted: But what do I know.

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kalvano
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Re: So this is pretty funny.

Postby kalvano » Thu May 20, 2010 6:30 pm

I agree with whoever said they'd want to read the deposit agreement. Wake didn't even have one.

I'm still going to say he should cancel the check, because I think he can.


Also, as an aside, lawyers typically have terrible credit.

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Matthies
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Re: So this is pretty funny.

Postby Matthies » Thu May 20, 2010 6:34 pm

kalvano wrote:I agree with whoever said they'd want to read the deposit agreement. Wake didn't even have one.

I'm still going to say he should cancel the check, because I think he can.


Also, as an aside, lawyers typically have terrible credit.


There are lots of really fun things you can do after you become a lawyer, that you can't do before you become a lawyer. Its much easier to keep you out of the proffesion in the first place then it is to kick you out once your inn. So freinds, save all those DUIS and not making child support payments until AFTER you get your bar card.

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Bronte
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Re: So this is pretty funny.

Postby Bronte » Thu May 20, 2010 6:34 pm

kalvano wrote:I agree with whoever said they'd want to read the deposit agreement. Wake didn't even have one.

I'm still going to say he should cancel the check, because I think he can.


Also, as an aside, lawyers typically have terrible credit.


Okay, OP, we've reached a consensus: you should cancel the check because kalvano thinks you can.

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Re: So this is pretty funny.

Postby d34d9823 » Thu May 20, 2010 6:37 pm

Bronte wrote:
kalvano wrote:I agree with whoever said they'd want to read the deposit agreement. Wake didn't even have one.

I'm still going to say he should cancel the check, because I think he can.


Also, as an aside, lawyers typically have terrible credit.


Okay, OP, we've reached a consensus: you should cancel the check because kalvano thinks you can.

Oh, come on, this argument is going in circles anyway. Do you really have to go all ad hominem?

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kalvano
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Re: So this is pretty funny.

Postby kalvano » Thu May 20, 2010 6:38 pm

Show some evidence that says he can't.

In the meantime, I'll stick with if I had a check outstanding for two months, I'd cancel it.

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Matthies
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Re: So this is pretty funny.

Postby Matthies » Thu May 20, 2010 6:39 pm

kalvano wrote:I'm still going to say he should cancel the check, because I think he can.




Also lucky for both of us the 1Ls (or newly minted 2Ls) are all still drunk/hung over/or doing write on or this thread would have turned into a complete contracts shitshow with consideration, benfit, unjust enrichment, bargin, and maybe even a bilateral vs unliateral show down by now.

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kalvano
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Re: So this is pretty funny.

Postby kalvano » Thu May 20, 2010 6:40 pm

I doubt the school even cares that much.

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Re: So this is pretty funny.

Postby d34d9823 » Thu May 20, 2010 6:42 pm

kalvano wrote:I doubt the school even cares that much.

Pretty sure they cared enough to go cash the check :D

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romothesavior
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Re: So this is pretty funny.

Postby romothesavior » Thu May 20, 2010 6:43 pm

Matthies wrote:
kalvano wrote:No, they can't. He doesn't technically owe them money. All they can do is revoke his seat.


I dunno, I seem to remember my despot saying it was non refunable. I know when someone gives me a depsoit to rent one of my places I hold that deposit until they move in, and deducting from thier total move in costs. but by leaving a depsot they are agreeing to rent my place and I'm agreeing to hold it for them and not rent it out to anyone else. If they later change thier mind, and decide not to rent my place, then as the recipt i gave them says, theat depsoit is do in consideration of me taking the unit off the market and holding it for them. I don't see a seat deposit being that diffrent. Until he telles them he is not attending they can not give that seat to someone esle. Once he does tell them that, then if the depsot was non refunadble given in cosnideration of saving hima seat they are owned that money. If the aparment depsot check bounces I'm reporting it to the crdit buerue, not becuase I really need that $100 or whatever, but becuase that's how I and other landlords, running thier credit, know if someone as ripped us off or woes rent or a depsoit to anuther landlord and thus is not a good credit risk.


+1. I dunno how everyone is arguing he can get that money back. But maybe I'm not up to speed on checking/deposit policies.

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kalvano
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Re: So this is pretty funny.

Postby kalvano » Thu May 20, 2010 6:44 pm

Well, $300 is $300.

I mean, I wouldn't turn it down. But it's too late now anyway. The check has gone through.

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Re: So this is pretty funny.

Postby d34d9823 » Thu May 20, 2010 6:44 pm

romothesavior wrote:
Matthies wrote:
kalvano wrote:No, they can't. He doesn't technically owe them money. All they can do is revoke his seat.


I dunno, I seem to remember my despot saying it was non refunable. I know when someone gives me a depsoit to rent one of my places I hold that deposit until they move in, and deducting from thier total move in costs. but by leaving a depsot they are agreeing to rent my place and I'm agreeing to hold it for them and not rent it out to anyone else. If they later change thier mind, and decide not to rent my place, then as the recipt i gave them says, theat depsoit is do in consideration of me taking the unit off the market and holding it for them. I don't see a seat deposit being that diffrent. Until he telles them he is not attending they can not give that seat to someone esle. Once he does tell them that, then if the depsot was non refunadble given in cosnideration of saving hima seat they are owned that money. If the aparment depsot check bounces I'm reporting it to the crdit buerue, not becuase I really need that $100 or whatever, but becuase that's how I and other landlords, running thier credit, know if someone as ripped us off or woes rent or a depsoit to anuther landlord and thus is not a good credit risk.


+1. I dunno how everyone is arguing he can get that money back. But maybe I'm not up to speed on checking/deposit policies.

Did you see the part where the school didn't cash the check? People are saying he should have put a stop on the check before they found it.

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romothesavior
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Re: So this is pretty funny.

Postby romothesavior » Thu May 20, 2010 6:46 pm

Matthies wrote:
kalvano wrote:I'm still going to say he should cancel the check, because I think he can.




Also lucky for both of us the 1Ls (or newly minted 2Ls) are all still drunk/hung over/or doing write on or this thread would have turned into a complete contracts shitshow with consideration, benfit, unjust enrichment, bargin, and maybe even a bilateral vs unliateral show down by now.


Haha +1. You're on a roll Matthies.

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Matthies
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Re: So this is pretty funny.

Postby Matthies » Thu May 20, 2010 6:47 pm

kalvano wrote:Show some evidence that says he can't.

In the meantime, I'll stick with if I had a check outstanding for two months, I'd cancel it.


Please, please don't make me go back and look at my commceriakl paper outline, but I'm pretty sure UCC Artcile 3 says drafts are stale after six months, but even then the bank can, if they want to, cash it.

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kalvano
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Re: So this is pretty funny.

Postby kalvano » Thu May 20, 2010 6:50 pm

Don't go back and look at anything. Checks are good for 6 months, bu if I had one outstanding for 2 months, I'd go ahead and put a stop payment on it.

Of course, all this amuses me because law schools still use checks.

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Iconoclast
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Re: So this is pretty funny.

Postby Iconoclast » Thu May 20, 2010 10:07 pm

dood wrote:still kind of a dick move of school to cash it right after the email...they could have made it less obvious


The school cashed it well before he ever sent the email. Probably a couple days.

For it to have happened like the OP said, this would have had to happen:

1. Someone read his email as soon as it came in. (Does anyone who has been through the admissions process believe that emails are read instantaneously?)
2. They rushed straight to the bank to deposit it! (This is usually done once a day, at the close of business.)
3. Then the bank used by the school would have had to process the check and send it to the OP's bank for processing. (Faster now that it is done electronically, but the transactions are still usually processed in batches at scheduled times of day.)
4. Then the OP's bank would have had to process the check and update the OP's "client side" transaction list. (Again, usually a delay of at least a couple hours)

The fact that it showed up in the OP's transaction history shortly after the email was sent is a coincidence.

And trying to cancel the check would be a scumbag move in the first place. The OP paid the school for a service (holding a seat). The school delivered the service. The OP changing his mind and no longer wanting the seat doesn't matter. He paid them to hold it and they did.

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Mr. Matlock
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Re: So this is pretty funny.

Postby Mr. Matlock » Thu May 20, 2010 10:15 pm

I didn't find anything funny about the OP's story. Matthies's contribution was fucking brilliant, but other than that, big pile o' fail.




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