Are business majors really that rare?

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tesoro
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Re: Are business majors really that rare?

Postby tesoro » Fri May 28, 2010 1:30 am

I didn't read most of the thread but if this hasn't been mentioned...

Business programs are notorious for grade deflation. I personally took a business class where my 92% average was worth only a B. I never took another business class again- it wasn't worth the hit to my GPA.

The quantity of business degree graduates with a GPA worthy of CLS is small. The percentage of those students who actually want to go to law school is even smaller. Not to mention what was certainly stated above... those who somehow left with high GPAs all got offered 6 figures on day one at IB firms or hedge funds with just their bachelors degree. To further their prospects they're probably looking at MBA programs, not law programs.

The list goes on, but these are a few of the big reasons that might explain what you found.

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Ragged
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Re: Are business majors really that rare?

Postby Ragged » Fri May 28, 2010 1:47 am

Didn't read the whole thread but yea it is wierd. As an Accounting/Finance major myself, I would expect to see more of that in LS. Aside for B school and good career prospects for Accounting and Finance in its own right (often even better than that of a lawyer) I also think part of the reason is that alot of business majors aren't smart enough to go to top law schools (which is what you are looking at), because lets be honest business is easy as hell. Also because people choose business often because they are either on an athletic scholarship and need freee time to devote to the sport or because they want to have lots time to party while in college and not having to try hard - the cause is the same for both cases - business is easy and does not people to work hard.

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rx3r
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Re: Are business majors really that rare?

Postby rx3r » Fri May 28, 2010 2:25 am

Well, they aren't that rare at Columbia for the incoming 2013 class (your data is for 2012). I did a quick search across the incoming class directory thing, and I think there are 24 or so business/accounting/finance majors this year.

Blame it on the economy.

HBK
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Re: Are business majors really that rare?

Postby HBK » Fri May 28, 2010 9:44 am

tesoro wrote:I didn't read most of the thread but if this hasn't been mentioned...

Business programs are notorious for grade deflation. I personally took a business class where my 92% average was worth only a B. I never took another business class again- it wasn't worth the hit to my GPA.

The quantity of business degree graduates with a GPA worthy of CLS is small. The percentage of those students who actually want to go to law school is even smaller. Not to mention what was certainly stated above... those who somehow left with high GPAs all got offered 6 figures on day one at IB firms or hedge funds with just their bachelors degree. To further their prospects they're probably looking at MBA programs, not law programs.

The list goes on, but these are a few of the big reasons that might explain what you found.


+1 the average GPA for Wharton MBA is 3.5.

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CG614
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Re: Are business majors really that rare?

Postby CG614 » Fri May 28, 2010 9:55 am

rx3r wrote:Well, they aren't that rare at Columbia for the incoming 2013 class (your data is for 2012). I did a quick search across the incoming class directory thing, and I think there are 24 or so business/accounting/finance majors this year.

Blame it on the economy.

Done and done.
/thread

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TheBigMediocre
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Re: Are business majors really that rare?

Postby TheBigMediocre » Fri May 28, 2010 11:20 am

HBK wrote:
tesoro wrote:I didn't read most of the thread but if this hasn't been mentioned...

Business programs are notorious for grade deflation. I personally took a business class where my 92% average was worth only a B. I never took another business class again- it wasn't worth the hit to my GPA.

The quantity of business degree graduates with a GPA worthy of CLS is small. The percentage of those students who actually want to go to law school is even smaller. Not to mention what was certainly stated above... those who somehow left with high GPAs all got offered 6 figures on day one at IB firms or hedge funds with just their bachelors degree. To further their prospects they're probably looking at MBA programs, not law programs.

The list goes on, but these are a few of the big reasons that might explain what you found.


+1 the average GPA for Wharton MBA is 3.5.


MBA difficulty =/= UG business program difficulty. You should have seen enough "Well my UG gpa was 3.1 but I've had a 3.8 in my masters degree in (field)! does that help?" to realize that masters GPAs are pretty much worthless.

tesoro
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Re: Are business majors really that rare?

Postby tesoro » Fri May 28, 2010 12:54 pm

TheBigMediocre wrote:
HBK wrote:
tesoro wrote:I didn't read most of the thread but if this hasn't been mentioned...

Business programs are notorious for grade deflation. I personally took a business class where my 92% average was worth only a B. I never took another business class again- it wasn't worth the hit to my GPA.

The quantity of business degree graduates with a GPA worthy of CLS is small. The percentage of those students who actually want to go to law school is even smaller. Not to mention what was certainly stated above... those who somehow left with high GPAs all got offered 6 figures on day one at IB firms or hedge funds with just their bachelors degree. To further their prospects they're probably looking at MBA programs, not law programs.

The list goes on, but these are a few of the big reasons that might explain what you found.


+1 the average GPA for Wharton MBA is 3.5.


MBA difficulty =/= UG business program difficulty. You should have seen enough "Well my UG gpa was 3.1 but I've had a 3.8 in my masters degree in (field)! does that help?" to realize that masters GPAs are pretty much worthless.


I think you misunderstood what HBK was saying. The median entry GPA into a top MBA program is a 3.5. Meaning a 3.5 must be pretty damn high, class rank-wise, in UG

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TheBigMediocre
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Re: Are business majors really that rare?

Postby TheBigMediocre » Fri May 28, 2010 1:05 pm

tesoro wrote:
TheBigMediocre wrote:
HBK wrote:
tesoro wrote:I didn't read most of the thread but if this hasn't been mentioned...

Business programs are notorious for grade deflation. I personally took a business class where my 92% average was worth only a B. I never took another business class again- it wasn't worth the hit to my GPA.

The quantity of business degree graduates with a GPA worthy of CLS is small. The percentage of those students who actually want to go to law school is even smaller. Not to mention what was certainly stated above... those who somehow left with high GPAs all got offered 6 figures on day one at IB firms or hedge funds with just their bachelors degree. To further their prospects they're probably looking at MBA programs, not law programs.

The list goes on, but these are a few of the big reasons that might explain what you found.


+1 the average GPA for Wharton MBA is 3.5.


MBA difficulty =/= UG business program difficulty. You should have seen enough "Well my UG gpa was 3.1 but I've had a 3.8 in my masters degree in (field)! does that help?" to realize that masters GPAs are pretty much worthless.


I think you misunderstood what HBK was saying. The median entry GPA into a top MBA program is a 3.5. Meaning a 3.5 must be pretty damn high, class rank-wise, in UG


Oops, if that's the case then my bad!

HBK
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Re: Are business majors really that rare?

Postby HBK » Fri May 28, 2010 1:13 pm

TheBigMediocre wrote:
tesoro wrote:
TheBigMediocre wrote:
HBK wrote:
+1 the average GPA for Wharton MBA is 3.5.


MBA difficulty =/= UG business program difficulty. You should have seen enough "Well my UG gpa was 3.1 but I've had a 3.8 in my masters degree in (field)! does that help?" to realize that masters GPAs are pretty much worthless.


I think you misunderstood what HBK was saying. The median entry GPA into a top MBA program is a 3.5. Meaning a 3.5 must be pretty damn high, class rank-wise, in UG


Oops, if that's the case then my bad!


No worries, I should have been clearer in my post.

hoyas2010
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Re: Are business majors really that rare?

Postby hoyas2010 » Fri May 28, 2010 1:16 pm

Ragged wrote:Didn't read the whole thread but yea it is wierd. As an Accounting/Finance major myself, I would expect to see more of that in LS. Aside for B school and good career prospects for Accounting and Finance in its own right (often even better than that of a lawyer) I also think part of the reason is that alot of business majors aren't smart enough to go to top law schools (which is what you are looking at), because lets be honest business is easy as hell. Also because people choose business often because they are either on an athletic scholarship and need freee time to devote to the sport or because they want to have lots time to party while in college and not having to try hard - the cause is the same for both cases - business is easy and does not people to work hard.


Try taking a finance class at a top school, not a T2, and then maybe you can make such a broad generalization.

Logjik
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Re: Are business majors really that rare?

Postby Logjik » Fri May 28, 2010 1:26 pm

I went to one of the best Accounting schools in NY and I have to say, it wasn't easy at all. The advanced accounting classes had grade averages around C to C+, and thus, brought down my major GPA as compared to my overall GPA. If I would have pursued a Liberal Arts Major or an easier business major (i.e Economics or Finance), I believe my GPA would be .2-.3 points higher.

Granted accounting is not engineering or pre-med, but it's not a piece of cake the way some posters make it out to be. Even the CPA exam has a 50% pass rate....

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Ronaldo
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Re: Are business majors really that rare?

Postby Ronaldo » Fri May 28, 2010 1:48 pm

Logjik wrote:I went to one of the best Accounting schools in NY and I have to say, it wasn't easy at all. The advanced accounting classes had grade averages around C to C+, and thus, brought down my major GPA as compared to my overall GPA. If I would have pursued a Liberal Arts Major or an easier business major (i.e Economics or Finance), I believe my GPA would be .2-.3 points higher.

Granted accounting is not engineering or pre-med, but it's not a piece of cake the way some posters make it out to be. Even the CPA exam has a 50% pass rate....


+1

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TheBigMediocre
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Re: Are business majors really that rare?

Postby TheBigMediocre » Fri May 28, 2010 1:59 pm

Ronaldo wrote:
Logjik wrote:I went to one of the best Accounting schools in NY and I have to say, it wasn't easy at all. The advanced accounting classes had grade averages around C to C+, and thus, brought down my major GPA as compared to my overall GPA. If I would have pursued a Liberal Arts Major or an easier business major (i.e Economics or Finance), I believe my GPA would be .2-.3 points higher.

Granted accounting is not engineering or pre-med, but it's not a piece of cake the way some posters make it out to be. Even the CPA exam has a 50% pass rate....


+1


At my school, GPA averages for accounting classes for spring 2009 were:
Mgr. Cost Accounting: 2.78
Fed Income Tax: 2.64
AIS: 3.04
Advanced Financial/Research: 2.89
Audit: 2.94

Also...Who wants to bet CPA exam pass rate is going to go down even further for a few rounds with the introduction of IFRS?

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Billy Blanks
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Re: Are business majors really that rare?

Postby Billy Blanks » Fri May 28, 2010 2:04 pm

A clarifying question: When you say, "business school isn't easy, look at my GPA," do you mean that in business it's not easy to get a high GPA (because of curves and grade deflation), or that the work itself is actually challenging and thus creates a class with lower GPA's?

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Ronaldo
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Re: Are business majors really that rare?

Postby Ronaldo » Fri May 28, 2010 2:19 pm

Business majors are not difficult as many have suggested (business administration, marketing, etc.) However, an accounting program at a good business school is very challenging and rigorous, especially when taking the advanced accounting courses such as "Advanced Financial Accounting", "Audit", "Financial Information Systems" etc...

Part of my decision to major in accounting was because it was challenging and would prepare for the rigor in law school. Plus, if for whatever reason, I was unable to attend a good law school, accounting is career with solid and stable employment prospects.

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Ragged
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Re: Are business majors really that rare?

Postby Ragged » Fri May 28, 2010 2:44 pm

hoyas2010 wrote:
Ragged wrote:Didn't read the whole thread but yea it is wierd. As an Accounting/Finance major myself, I would expect to see more of that in LS. Aside for B school and good career prospects for Accounting and Finance in its own right (often even better than that of a lawyer) I also think part of the reason is that alot of business majors aren't smart enough to go to top law schools (which is what you are looking at), because lets be honest business is easy as hell. Also because people choose business often because they are either on an athletic scholarship and need freee time to devote to the sport or because they want to have lots time to party while in college and not having to try hard - the cause is the same for both cases - business is easy and does not people to work hard.


Try taking a finance class at a top school, not a T2, and then maybe you can make such a broad generalization.


Well ok, maybe some finance classes can be challenging at the very top level like perheps derivitives or something like that. And I guess difficulty is also depended upon your proffessor. But I highly doubte that I will learn something different about GAAP or the CAPM model from Chicago than what I learnt from my crappy T2 school.

Plus studetns from a top business schools are more likely to go on to MBA or get a job rather than go to law school anyway. And rankings below to 3 or 5 business schools are probably just as meaningless as rankings below top 14 or so law schools.

09042014
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Re: Are business majors really that rare?

Postby 09042014 » Fri May 28, 2010 2:54 pm

tesoro wrote:
Business programs are notorious for grade deflation. I personally took a business class where my 92% average was worth only a B. I never took another business class again- it wasn't worth the hit to my GPA.


Not at most programs they aren't. At my undergrad (a decent, but not elite school) it was almost impossible to get less than a B.

I took business writing from the business department, and in a class filled with business majors, I got an A with no effort. And anyone who reads my posts knows that my writing is a solid step below awful.

From what people in business courses told me, that there were about three or four tough weed out classes (business calc, econ micro and macro, and some other). But besides that it was retardedly easy. They worked the least amount of any majors I've seen, included polisci.

09042014
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Re: Are business majors really that rare?

Postby 09042014 » Fri May 28, 2010 2:55 pm

tesoro wrote:
I think you misunderstood what HBK was saying. The median entry GPA into a top MBA program is a 3.5. Meaning a 3.5 must be pretty damn high, class rank-wise, in UG


Bad assumption. MBA programs value what you've done in the real world, not your undergrad degree. A 3.9/800GMAT is not auto admit any decent MBA program.

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Stringer Bell
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Re: Are business majors really that rare?

Postby Stringer Bell » Fri May 28, 2010 3:07 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
tesoro wrote:
Business programs are notorious for grade deflation. I personally took a business class where my 92% average was worth only a B. I never took another business class again- it wasn't worth the hit to my GPA.


Not at most programs they aren't. At my undergrad (a decent, but not elite school) it was almost impossible to get less than a B.

I took business writing from the business department, and in a class filled with business majors, I got an A with no effort. And anyone who reads my posts knows that my writing is a solid step below awful.

From what people in business courses told me, that there were about three or four tough weed out classes (business calc, econ micro and macro, and some other). But besides that it was retardedly easy. They worked the least amount of any majors I've seen, included polisci.


It depends on the program and the school. I went to a TTT UG, but I can say that the MIS program there may have even had more attrition than majors like engineering (not saying it's harder though). The first cut class got rid of 2/3 of the people, the next cut class (which is when I decided to switch to finance since I didn't have the resolve to spend 40 hours a week on one class in my less mature days) got rid of 75% of the people that signed up. So not counting people who retook the class, something like 8% of the people that started in MIS made it through the first 2 cut classes. Keep in mind making it was getting a C+.

My personal feelings about my other bus classes were Finance (somewhat easy), Acctg (moderate), Mgmt (extremely easy), Mktng (extremely easy), Statistics (moderate). I would still say my electives like Philosophy, Communications, and Logic were easier though. Of course, I minored in Spanish and the upper level classes killed me which is one of the main reasons (besides being less motivated back then) that I am such a major splitter.

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kdw94780
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Re: Are business majors really that rare?

Postby kdw94780 » Fri May 28, 2010 4:47 pm

Flanker1067 wrote:kdw94780,

Fair point.



A few lsat points can mean the difference between T20 and T10 etc. In my accounting program, going to law school was never discussed by professors. Professors tended to push getting a masters and taking the CPA exam. I only decided to look into law school after working with a couple of law grads in International Tax at a big four. I also think business majors at least accounting & finance are taught to memorize, which is not very helpful on the LSAT.

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kdw94780
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Re: Are business majors really that rare?

Postby kdw94780 » Fri May 28, 2010 4:49 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
tesoro wrote:
Business programs are notorious for grade deflation. I personally took a business class where my 92% average was worth only a B. I never took another business class again- it wasn't worth the hit to my GPA.


Not at most programs they aren't. At my undergrad (a decent, but not elite school) it was almost impossible to get less than a B.

I took business writing from the business department, and in a class filled with business majors, I got an A with no effort. And anyone who reads my posts knows that my writing is a solid step below awful.

From what people in business courses told me, that there were about three or four tough weed out classes (business calc, econ micro and macro, and some other). But besides that it was retardedly easy. They worked the least amount of any majors I've seen, included polisci.


Obviously, you never looked into accounting or MIS. I got straight A's in all my liberal arts classes. My only Bs came on my business courses (accounting, advanced econ and fin).

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TheBigMediocre
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Re: Are business majors really that rare?

Postby TheBigMediocre » Fri May 28, 2010 4:57 pm

kdw94780 wrote: I only decided to look into law school after working with a couple of law grads in International Tax at a big four. I also think business majors at least accounting & finance are taught to memorize, which is not very helpful on the LSAT.


I guess since we've derailed this into an "Accounting is fucking awesome" thread, I'll just ask this here. Was that the Deloitte in London program? My UG had Big 4 recruiters on campus every week and when I told the Deloitte recruiter I was going to be CPA eligible and going to law school she talked up the Deloitte in London program since they hire law grads too.

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Mickey Quicknumbers
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Re: Are business majors really that rare?

Postby Mickey Quicknumbers » Fri May 28, 2010 5:42 pm

kdw94780 wrote:Obviously, you never looked into accounting or MIS. I got straight A's in all my liberal arts classes. My only Bs came on my business courses (accounting, advanced econ and fin).


Different strokes for different folks. I never got lower than a 94 in any accounting class but a B in introduction to poetry.

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Ronaldo
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Re: Are business majors really that rare?

Postby Ronaldo » Fri May 28, 2010 6:49 pm

delBarco wrote:
kdw94780 wrote:Obviously, you never looked into accounting or MIS. I got straight A's in all my liberal arts classes. My only Bs came on my business courses (accounting, advanced econ and fin).


Different strokes for different folks. I never got lower than a 94 in any accounting class but a B in introduction to poetry.


Could it be possible you did not take the "introduction to poetry" class seriously and therefore got a B. I doubt that if you can get an A on accounting, you can't get an A on poetry.

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TrojanHopeful
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Re: Are business majors really that rare?

Postby TrojanHopeful » Fri May 28, 2010 7:33 pm

Well, since you mentioned it....accounting is pretty awesome.




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