Are business majors really that rare?

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SuperFreak
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Re: Are business majors really that rare?

Postby SuperFreak » Thu May 27, 2010 8:44 am

bostonlawchick wrote:I go to an okay UG with a pretty good accounting program. Finance majors aren't so lucky. No one from my school goes to work on Wall Street thats for sure.

I was interviewing for Big 4 internships this past fall and hearing horror stories of how much work they do during busy season for like 45k a year, and then I realized I could do the same ridiculously detailed work and the same insane hours and make a ton more money.

That and the more accounting coursework I take the more I never want to hear the words "bond amortization" or "IFRS" ever again....


I never considered accounting (1) because I'm not great at math (2) because my aunt is an accountant and she's boring and depressed.

Flanker1067
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Re: Are business majors really that rare?

Postby Flanker1067 » Thu May 27, 2010 8:47 am

SuperFreak wrote:
bostonlawchick wrote:
SuperFreak wrote:
Why would anyone go into Law if they could get into business?



Personally, as an accounting major, I just figured I'd trade one soul sucking 70 hour a week job for a different soul sucking 70 hour a week job that might pay me three times as much.


Actually, this is pretty logical. Accounting must really suck. If you major in business and go to a crappy school, then you suck (because you made a bad career choice in the long run).


Credited, only I did not realize it until it was too late. All my TTT UG finance degree qualifies me for are entry level "operations" jobs where I could sit and be a low paid paper monkey for 5-10 years until I moved up, at which point I may or may not break into 6 figures. This can hardly be considered "entering business". I would rather be a high paid paper monkey :)

hoyas2010
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Re: Are business majors really that rare?

Postby hoyas2010 » Thu May 27, 2010 8:51 am

I heard a student from YLS say that his professors didn't like finance/accounting majors because they're not trained to think constructively. I am not sure if this same mentality exists at CLS, but that might explain the low numbers of business majors present. I am a finance major and I find it hard to believe that our skill set wouldn't be useful for certain practices of law, but I can somewhat see what the Yale professors are talking about.

SuperFreak
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Re: Are business majors really that rare?

Postby SuperFreak » Thu May 27, 2010 8:52 am

hoyas2010 wrote:I heard a student from YLS say that his professors didn't like finance/accounting majors because they're not trained to think constructively. I am not sure if this same mentality exists at CLS, but that might explain the low numbers of business majors present. I am a finance major and I find it hard to believe that our skill set wouldn't be useful for certain practices of law, but I can somewhat see what the Yale professors are talking about.


Money never really needs anywhere.

hoyas2010
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Re: Are business majors really that rare?

Postby hoyas2010 » Thu May 27, 2010 8:54 am

SuperFreak wrote:
hoyas2010 wrote:I heard a student from YLS say that his professors didn't like finance/accounting majors because they're not trained to think constructively. I am not sure if this same mentality exists at CLS, but that might explain the low numbers of business majors present. I am a finance major and I find it hard to believe that our skill set wouldn't be useful for certain practices of law, but I can somewhat see what the Yale professors are talking about.


Money never really needs anywhere.


What?

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somewhatwayward
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Re: Are business majors really that rare?

Postby somewhatwayward » Thu May 27, 2010 9:06 am

the reason is that the majority of the CLS class comes from top UGs where you cannot major in business/accounting/finance. it is not considered an 'academic' major.

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KingJames6
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Re: Are business majors really that rare?

Postby KingJames6 » Thu May 27, 2010 9:30 am

Business majors have it easy as fuck and CLS is onto them. They need something more than a high GPA because the rigor of the curriculum is nonexistant. I go to a top 20 public school and all that is required for business majors to earn a 4.0 is a good amount of drinking 6 nights a week and a pulse. Its a joke.

HBK
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Re: Are business majors really that rare?

Postby HBK » Thu May 27, 2010 9:52 am

I didn't know many B majors going into law when I graduated. In fact, most B-majors go straight to work. Most of the top B schools have a two or three year work requirement to get into the MBA program.

MBAs with no work experience are jokes and will have a hard time finding a decent job.

If you're the hiring manager, would you take the guy whose been working for ten years, has a great track record, or an unproven 24 yr old who thinks he's special because he went to school for two extra years instead of getting a job?

This, of course, is different than a JD. A JD gives you practical knowledge to be an attorney that you can't get from UG. It allows you to be licensed to do a job. An MBA just adds to your knowledge and allows you to network, providing you with no tangible skills.

I went to a top B school, and planned on returning for my MBA after a few years... then I worked with a bunch of retarded MBAs and realized how worthless the degree really was. And talk about over saturation, lowly office managers in BFEs all over the country have them thanks to online courses.

SuperFreak
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Re: Are business majors really that rare?

Postby SuperFreak » Thu May 27, 2010 10:00 am

HBK wrote:I didn't know many B majors going into law when I graduated. In fact, most B-majors go straight to work. Most of the top B schools have a two or three year work requirement to get into the MBA program.

MBAs with no work experience are jokes and will have a hard time finding a decent job.

If you're the hiring manager, would you take the guy whose been working for ten years, has a great track record, or an unproven 24 yr old who thinks he's special because he went to school for two extra years instead of getting a job?

This, of course, is different than a JD. A JD gives you practical knowledge to be an attorney that you can't get from UG. It allows you to be licensed to do a job. An MBA just adds to your knowledge and allows you to network, providing you with no tangible skills.

I went to a top B school, and planned on returning for my MBA after a few years... then I worked with a bunch of retarded MBAs and realized how worthless the degree really was. And talk about over saturation, lowly office managers in BFEs all over the country have them thanks to online courses.


So, if I get into somewhere like Wharton MBA with zero job experience, what you're saying is that I shouldn't go?

HBK
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Re: Are business majors really that rare?

Postby HBK » Thu May 27, 2010 10:16 am

SuperFreak wrote:
HBK wrote:I didn't know many B majors going into law when I graduated. In fact, most B-majors go straight to work. Most of the top B schools have a two or three year work requirement to get into the MBA program.

MBAs with no work experience are jokes and will have a hard time finding a decent job.

If you're the hiring manager, would you take the guy whose been working for ten years, has a great track record, or an unproven 24 yr old who thinks he's special because he went to school for two extra years instead of getting a job?

This, of course, is different than a JD. A JD gives you practical knowledge to be an attorney that you can't get from UG. It allows you to be licensed to do a job. An MBA just adds to your knowledge and allows you to network, providing you with no tangible skills.

I went to a top B school, and planned on returning for my MBA after a few years... then I worked with a bunch of retarded MBAs and realized how worthless the degree really was. And talk about over saturation, lowly office managers in BFEs all over the country have them thanks to online courses.


So, if I get into somewhere like Wharton MBA with zero job experience, what you're saying is that I shouldn't go?


If they'd even take you- Wharton MBA's average business experience is 5-6 years. What kind of job would you want when you got out? Because even with an MBA from Wharton, no company's going to say "Hey, you should be our VP!"

No, you're likely to get a slightly better than entry level job. MBAs are degrees that you're supposed to get after you've been in the real world for a time. You go out, work, learn, then come back and learn how you can do things better.

The Wharton hypo would be fine if you realize that you won't be top dog upon graduation. The MBA will be impressive after your first job or two.

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CG614
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Re: Are business majors really that rare?

Postby CG614 » Thu May 27, 2010 11:08 am

DoubleChecks wrote:lol i didnt get to read sogui's original post, so i cant comment on that, but just based off his edited one...i can see what he's saying. i mean, CLS posted 4 business students last cycle...this cycle sogui + friends is already 3 lol...and they are all from the same school.

i guess what he may be trying to imply (or at least what i inferred) is that those numbers may be shady/off because realistically, there would have to be more business majors.

however, the econ thing seems to be the reason...chuckbass' post right before mine (editing it as i type it lol) makes a lot of sense


Except the 4 is from last year's enrolling class, so we don't know how many are in this year's class. For the record, I am a Finance undergrad, so I would round out the 4, if those numbers meant anything.

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kdw94780
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Re: Are business majors really that rare?

Postby kdw94780 » Thu May 27, 2010 11:16 am

You said you're enrolling at CLS?

The Law School Admission Council categorizes test-takers into 162 majors. Seeing many of those as sub-disciplines of major fields, Nieswiadomy groups them into 29 categories. Of those 29, he found that the top five majors and their average test scores were:

1. Physics/math, 160.0
2. Economics, 157.4
3. Philosophy/theology, 157.4
4. International relations, 156.5
5. Engineering, 156.2

The five lowest-scoring majors were:

25. Education, 149.4
26. Business administration, 149.1
27. Health professions, 148.4
28. Prelaw, 148.3
29. Criminal justice, 146.0


Now you know why there's only 4?

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kdw94780
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Re: Are business majors really that rare?

Postby kdw94780 » Thu May 27, 2010 11:19 am

SuperFreak wrote:
bostonlawchick wrote:I go to an okay UG with a pretty good accounting program. Finance majors aren't so lucky. No one from my school goes to work on Wall Street thats for sure.

I was interviewing for Big 4 internships this past fall and hearing horror stories of how much work they do during busy season for like 45k a year, and then I realized I could do the same ridiculously detailed work and the same insane hours and make a ton more money.

That and the more accounting coursework I take the more I never want to hear the words "bond amortization" or "IFRS" ever again....


I never considered accounting (1) because I'm not great at math (2) because my aunt is an accountant and she's boring and depressed.


I interned at KPMG in international tax, and I fully expect to be working much more in BigLaw. I don't think 50 hrs is really bad during tax season and 40 hrs during the summer is really bad. Well wait a sec... I guess they fired a bunch of people because they had too many people to spread the work around, so maybe when the economy picks up it may be more at 60 hrs during tax season.

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CG614
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Re: Are business majors really that rare?

Postby CG614 » Thu May 27, 2010 1:02 pm

kdw94780 wrote:
SuperFreak wrote:
bostonlawchick wrote:I go to an okay UG with a pretty good accounting program. Finance majors aren't so lucky. No one from my school goes to work on Wall Street thats for sure.

I was interviewing for Big 4 internships this past fall and hearing horror stories of how much work they do during busy season for like 45k a year, and then I realized I could do the same ridiculously detailed work and the same insane hours and make a ton more money.

That and the more accounting coursework I take the more I never want to hear the words "bond amortization" or "IFRS" ever again....


I never considered accounting (1) because I'm not great at math (2) because my aunt is an accountant and she's boring and depressed.


I interned at KPMG in international tax, and I fully expect to be working much more in BigLaw. I don't think 50 hrs is really bad during tax season and 40 hrs during the summer is really bad. Well wait a sec... I guess they fired a bunch of people because they had too many people to spread the work around, so maybe when the economy picks up it may be more at 60 hrs during tax season.


Cool story, Hansel.

goodolgil
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Re: Are business majors really that rare?

Postby goodolgil » Thu May 27, 2010 1:09 pm

KingJames6 wrote:Business majors have it easy as fuck and CLS is onto them. They need something more than a high GPA because the rigor of the curriculum is nonexistant. I go to a top 20 public school and all that is required for business majors to earn a 4.0 is a good amount of drinking 6 nights a week and a pulse. Its a joke.


I don't know. I know a couple people who went to NYU Stern for undergrad and it seems as if all their classes were graded on a law school-esque type of curve.

Flanker1067
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Re: Are business majors really that rare?

Postby Flanker1067 » Thu May 27, 2010 1:18 pm

kdw94780 wrote:You said you're enrolling at CLS?

The Law School Admission Council categorizes test-takers into 162 majors. Seeing many of those as sub-disciplines of major fields, Nieswiadomy groups them into 29 categories. Of those 29, he found that the top five majors and their average test scores were:

1. Physics/math, 160.0
2. Economics, 157.4
3. Philosophy/theology, 157.4
4. International relations, 156.5
5. Engineering, 156.2

The five lowest-scoring majors were:

25. Education, 149.4
26. Business administration, 149.1
27. Health professions, 148.4
28. Prelaw, 148.3
29. Criminal justice, 146.0


Now you know why there's only 4?


In these, they count Accounting and Finance (and possibly other) business disciplines as separate majors. So "business administration" would be that basic major that most schools don't even have. If I recall correctly, both accounting and finance are above average.

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Sogui
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Re: Are business majors really that rare?

Postby Sogui » Thu May 27, 2010 1:23 pm

goodolgil wrote:
KingJames6 wrote:Business majors have it easy as fuck and CLS is onto them. They need something more than a high GPA because the rigor of the curriculum is nonexistant. I go to a top 20 public school and all that is required for business majors to earn a 4.0 is a good amount of drinking 6 nights a week and a pulse. Its a joke.


I don't know. I know a couple people who went to NYU Stern for undergrad and it seems as if all their classes were graded on a law school-esque type of curve.


My school (which has a good business program) had a set curve as well. Not to mention I didn't think that law schools actively discriminated against any particularly major unless it was completely devoid of any intellectual rigor (sports training, etc...).

I hear justifications for why business majors are "low" in number at elite schools but 4 still seems crazy. Whatever I've talked this to death, I just hope when I say I studied finance people don't assume I have an MBA.

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kdw94780
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Re: Are business majors really that rare?

Postby kdw94780 » Thu May 27, 2010 1:28 pm

Flanker1067 wrote:
kdw94780 wrote:You said you're enrolling at CLS?

The Law School Admission Council categorizes test-takers into 162 majors. Seeing many of those as sub-disciplines of major fields, Nieswiadomy groups them into 29 categories. Of those 29, he found that the top five majors and their average test scores were:

1. Physics/math, 160.0
2. Economics, 157.4
3. Philosophy/theology, 157.4
4. International relations, 156.5
5. Engineering, 156.2

The five lowest-scoring majors were:

25. Education, 149.4
26. Business administration, 149.1
27. Health professions, 148.4
28. Prelaw, 148.3
29. Criminal justice, 146.0


Now you know why there's only 4?


In these, they count Accounting and Finance (and possibly other) business disciplines as separate majors. So "business administration" would be that basic major that most schools don't even have. If I recall correctly, both accounting and finance are above average.


:lol: I have a BSBA in Accounting, so I'm not trying to unfairly knock Accounting & Finance majors. I've seen the complete list before, but I couldn't find it just now (there's a thread about it somewhere on here). If I recall, Marketing, Accounting, Finance, etc were all below 153. That's still below the top 5 majors that the OP has noticed are well-represented at CLS.

HBK
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Re: Are business majors really that rare?

Postby HBK » Thu May 27, 2010 2:41 pm

Flanker1067 wrote:
kdw94780 wrote:You said you're enrolling at CLS?

The Law School Admission Council categorizes test-takers into 162 majors. Seeing many of those as sub-disciplines of major fields, Nieswiadomy groups them into 29 categories. Of those 29, he found that the top five majors and their average test scores were:

1. Physics/math, 160.0
2. Economics, 157.4
3. Philosophy/theology, 157.4
4. International relations, 156.5
5. Engineering, 156.2

The five lowest-scoring majors were:

25. Education, 149.4
26. Business administration, 149.1
27. Health professions, 148.4
28. Prelaw, 148.3
29. Criminal justice, 146.0


Now you know why there's only 4?


In these, they count Accounting and Finance (and possibly other) business disciplines as separate majors. So "business administration" would be that basic major that most schools don't even have. If I recall correctly, both accounting and finance are above average.


Yeah, "Business Administration" is pretty broad. The smarter B school students are usually Accounting, MIS, or Finance. "Business Administration," Marketing, and Management are the B-school fluff majors.

Flanker1067
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Re: Are business majors really that rare?

Postby Flanker1067 » Thu May 27, 2010 2:44 pm

kdw94780,

Fair point.

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KingJames6
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Re: Are business majors really that rare?

Postby KingJames6 » Fri May 28, 2010 12:04 am

goodolgil wrote:
KingJames6 wrote:Business majors have it easy as fuck and CLS is onto them. They need something more than a high GPA because the rigor of the curriculum is nonexistant. I go to a top 20 public school and all that is required for business majors to earn a 4.0 is a good amount of drinking 6 nights a week and a pulse. Its a joke.


I don't know. I know a couple people who went to NYU Stern for undergrad and it seems as if all their classes were graded on a law school-esque type of curve.



The curve isn't necessarily what's tough about law school, its that its hard as hell. If my UG classes were curved to a B/B+ that would be awesome, especially if they were as cushy as business classes. Instead, most are curved to a C/C+.

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TheBigMediocre
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Re: Are business majors really that rare?

Postby TheBigMediocre » Fri May 28, 2010 12:24 am

bostonlawchick wrote:I go to an okay UG with a pretty good accounting program. Finance majors aren't so lucky. No one from my school goes to work on Wall Street thats for sure.

I was interviewing for Big 4 internships this past fall and hearing horror stories of how much work they do during busy season for like 45k a year, and then I realized I could do the same ridiculously detailed work and the same insane hours and make a ton more money.


What bumblefuck market were you interviewing for? Even the big four offices in Ohio have starting salaries of at least 55k.

And to the Wharton-straight-from-undergrad-guy: Echoing what other people here said... even if you did get in right away, you'd come out vying for something like a senior consulting spot at Deloitte or maybe McKinsey. Don't get me wrong, still good but not what some of your experience classmates would be getting.

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MrKappus
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Re: Are business majors really that rare?

Postby MrKappus » Fri May 28, 2010 12:45 am

T6 schools mostly attract students from top UG's, and very few top UG's have business/finance/accounting majors.

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KeepitKind
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Re: Are business majors really that rare?

Postby KeepitKind » Fri May 28, 2010 1:15 am

or its possible that business degree from undergrad is too rigorous for many students to keep a hi enough gpa for the T6 law school to admit.. they gotta keep their numbers up and a psyc degree offers many more easy A's than taking macro and accounting.

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MrKappus
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Re: Are business majors really that rare?

Postby MrKappus » Fri May 28, 2010 1:21 am

gabrielk wrote:or its possible that business degree from undergrad is too rigorous for many students to keep a hi enough gpa for the T6 law school to admit.. they gotta keep their numbers up and a psyc degree offers many more easy A's than taking macro and accounting.


^ Lulz.




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