Disclosing Medical Records.

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quishiclocus
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Re: Disclosing Medical Records.

Postby quishiclocus » Fri May 14, 2010 10:52 am

Drug testing is a very class-dependent thing. Upper-class professionals would not stand for having to pee in a cup on a wide scale even if they weren't using drugs; they'd be influenced to look elsewhere for employment and the employer would not be able to attract top talent. The sort of people who go to work at Home Depot or HEB or Walmart or whatever don't, as a rule, have the option to leverage their talent; they're interchangeable cogs and thus can be put through a lot of things like that which are mostly a measure of control by the employer and/or a selling point to the consumer: "Our employees aren't on drugs!"

HBK
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Re: Disclosing Medical Records.

Postby HBK » Fri May 14, 2010 11:05 am

CMDantes wrote:Simply because when applying to work for places like HEB or Home Depot I had to go through drug testing, when all I would be doing was cleaning shit or pushing carts.

No, not because of some notion that drugs are bad. But thanks for contributing to the conversation Southstar.


Once you reach a certain level in most organizations, they simply don't care. If you're smart enough and a good enough worker to be a director or executive, then who cares if you're getting high? You can obviously manage yourself. I've worked with executives who have said "I don't care if they're smoking crack on their lunch break, as long as they're getting the work done."

I'd think the same would be true for lawyers. If you can do well in law school, if you're presentable and can interview, why would anyone care if you're doing drugs. At this point you have a track record for being able to accomplish something.

But you take someone who's applying for a low level job at HEB or Home Depot, and they either a) don't have any previous work experience or b) have crappy work experience. In either case, it's worth it to companies to see if you're a meth head or a burnout before they hire you. Employee turnover is costly, even that low down the totem pole. Also, those employees will be meeting customers face to face, and the company wouldn't want to scare off any customers by having cracked out employees.

ScaredWorkedBored
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Joined: Sat Jul 11, 2009 12:39 pm

Re: Disclosing Medical Records.

Postby ScaredWorkedBored » Fri May 14, 2010 11:09 am

CMDantes wrote:Thanks for the response, I guess I just landed in those offices/branches that didn't drug test.


Also ones that are not subject to a SSBI - unless you think you can hide drug use from the FBI.

CMDantes
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Re: Disclosing Medical Records.

Postby CMDantes » Fri May 14, 2010 11:59 am

HBK wrote:
CMDantes wrote:Simply because when applying to work for places like HEB or Home Depot I had to go through drug testing, when all I would be doing was cleaning shit or pushing carts.

No, not because of some notion that drugs are bad. But thanks for contributing to the conversation Southstar.


Once you reach a certain level in most organizations, they simply don't care. If you're smart enough and a good enough worker to be a director or executive, then who cares if you're getting high? You can obviously manage yourself. I've worked with executives who have said "I don't care if they're smoking crack on their lunch break, as long as they're getting the work done."

I'd think the same would be true for lawyers. If you can do well in law school, if you're presentable and can interview, why would anyone care if you're doing drugs. At this point you have a track record for being able to accomplish something.

But you take someone who's applying for a low level job at HEB or Home Depot, and they either a) don't have any previous work experience or b) have crappy work experience. In either case, it's worth it to companies to see if you're a meth head or a burnout before they hire you. Employee turnover is costly, even that low down the totem pole. Also, those employees will be meeting customers face to face, and the company wouldn't want to scare off any customers by having cracked out employees.


That makes a lot of sense actually, thanks.

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malfurion
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Re: Disclosing Medical Records.

Postby malfurion » Fri May 14, 2010 3:08 pm

LateNight wrote:I don't think this is a good idea. Sounds very risky to talk about drug use and how I overcame it. Who gives a shit? I have done so many things in my life that stand on their own without having to say, it was even harder for me because I was addicted to drugs. My PS will stand on the things I have accomplished; managing people, getting a 4.0 at university, and helping my community. I see no need to put a giant red flag about past drug addiction, the rate of relapse is VERY high and I would not fault a school for denying me because of this risk.

As mentioned earlier, my softs are excellent without mentioning my drug use. I find no pride in what I did and neither do I think I am special because I overcame it. There are people that have overcome much worse and I am not a special flower because of getting off drugs. Getting clean is expected, not something to write about. I don't ever want to be defined by my addiction, this is why I have issues with AA where people define themselves as alcoholics and don't really try and define themselves by anything else or anything positive in their lives

Everything I have read says never to use alcoholism or drug addiction in a personal statement. I agree, but I also will not use it because I think my achievements stand on their own and anyone, recovering addiction or not, would be proud of them.



This is awesome, much respect. I've been through some rough times as well, but I refuse to let any of that define who I am. I want to be known for what I've accomplished and earn my way based on my abilities and my hard work, not because of my mental health issues or whatever else I've been through. I absolutely detest the idea of portraying myself as a victim in a personal statement or anything similar, even if a lot of things that happened were out of my control, so I won't do it even if it would help. Good luck with your apps, I'm sure you're gonna do well.

06132010
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Re: Disclosing Medical Records.

Postby 06132010 » Fri May 14, 2010 3:15 pm

legalized wrote:
CMDantes wrote:Does the bar drug-test?


You're asking this and you intend to be a lawyer?

Are you serious?


are you serious?

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smartin
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Re: Disclosing Medical Records.

Postby smartin » Fri May 14, 2010 3:31 pm

None of the law school applications I submitted asked about treatment for addiction

BUT

I did just fill out a character reference form for a friend applying to the Florida Bar. It asked me if, to the best of my knowledge, she had ever received medical treatment for anything from addiction to voyeurism to pedophilia. If I checked "yes" I was requested to submit a separate statement.

FWIW, I filled out an Illinois character reference for another friend. It did not ask any question of the sort.

HBK
Posts: 493
Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2009 12:29 pm

Re: Disclosing Medical Records.

Postby HBK » Fri May 14, 2010 4:55 pm

Just FYI, the bar asks about illegal drug usage. A lawyer friend had an intern who lied on that portion when there was documentation from her UG about extensive drug use, and didn't pass the bar. I imagine there's probably a process for her to go through, appeals or something, but she lost the job she had lined up due to the error.

keg411
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Re: Disclosing Medical Records.

Postby keg411 » Fri May 14, 2010 6:19 pm

HBK wrote:Just FYI, the bar asks about illegal drug usage. A lawyer friend had an intern who lied on that portion when there was documentation from her UG about extensive drug use, and didn't pass the bar. I imagine there's probably a process for her to go through, appeals or something, but she lost the job she had lined up due to the error.


She was probably disciplined by her undergrad (through housing) for something like that and failed C&F because she didn't disclose her undergrad discipline. If OP was never arrested nor disciplined by school, then that person will not have the problem that your friend did.

lawyerhopefull
Posts: 54
Joined: Thu May 13, 2010 10:18 pm

Re: Disclosing Medical Records.

Postby lawyerhopefull » Fri May 14, 2010 7:59 pm

Yes.....since having the DEA bust down your firms doors in midmeeting is a "good" thing, or having your associate ask to "sock toes" for a puff....... :cry:


HBK wrote:
CMDantes wrote:Simply because when applying to work for places like HEB or Home Depot I had to go through drug testing, when all I would be doing was cleaning shit or pushing carts.

No, not because of some notion that drugs are bad. But thanks for contributing to the conversation Southstar.


Once you reach a certain level in most organizations, they simply don't care. If you're smart enough and a good enough worker to be a director or executive, then who cares if you're getting high? You can obviously manage yourself. I've worked with executives who have said "I don't care if they're smoking crack on their lunch break, as long as they're getting the work done."

I'd think the same would be true for lawyers. If you can do well in law school, if you're presentable and can interview, why would anyone care if you're doing drugs. At this point you have a track record for being able to accomplish something.

But you take someone who's applying for a low level job at HEB or Home Depot, and they either a) don't have any previous work experience or b) have crappy work experience. In either case, it's worth it to companies to see if you're a meth head or a burnout before they hire you. Employee turnover is costly, even that low down the totem pole. Also, those employees will be meeting customers face to face, and the company wouldn't want to scare off any customers by having cracked out employees.

usna02
Posts: 51
Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2010 7:47 pm

Re: Disclosing Medical Records.

Postby usna02 » Sun May 16, 2010 8:51 pm

I can't see why they would ever ask you this...it's your personal medical history. Plus, it's HIPAA.

LateNight wrote:Six years ago I went to a treatment center for substance abuse and depression.

Do I have to disclose this?

fa32982
Posts: 2
Joined: Sun May 16, 2010 9:09 pm

Re: Disclosing Medical Records.

Postby fa32982 » Sun May 16, 2010 9:42 pm

I was in the same boat as you are and no they will not ask you that. The things that they will ask you is if you have ever been subject to any kind of punishment for drug/alcohol related infractions. Some will ask you if you have ever been convicted of a felony, others dig deeper and ask you if you have ever been arrested, even if it has been expunged, but you don't have to worry about that so you are good. I don't know what schools some of these other people applied to, but none of the schools that I applied to, or even considered applying to asked anything about controlled substances and I don't think that any do. They will also ask you if you have took a six month or longer break from school for any reason, which I did. I had a fierce battle with chemical dependency and I also went to an inpatient rehabilitation facility for thirty days. The story gets even worse, but I am not going to post my life story on here. I ended up leaving school for three years and I returned in 2008 and just graduated. I just went through the application process this winter so I know all about it and my apps were loaded with addenda explaining my complex situation. I struggled with what I should say and what I shouldn't and I asked people's advice, in the end I went with my gut feeling. I laid it all out on the line in my personal statement I told them that I am an addict in recovery, I told them I went to an inpatient facility, and I told them that I, like yourself, have been clean for five years. They tell you to be candid so I say go for it, it worked out great for me. I applied to ten schools, all first and second tier, and I got accepted by five, wait-listed by three, and denied by two. The two I got denied to were reaches anyway and the best part is that I got a huge scholarship to a second tier school with a great reputation and great career prospects. I had a good undergrad GPA and a great LSAT score and I don't think that the chemical dependency affected their decisions at all. It actually could have helped because it shows them that you have overcame adversity and that you are mature enough to take care of a problem if you have one. Now I know that when I go to law school in the fall they will know who I am and what I have been through, there are no surprises. I laid it out on the line and they took me for who I am. I think you will feel better if you do the same, show them that you have nothing to hide. We should be proud that we overcame our disease. The Americans with Disabilities Act also protects people in recovery from discrimination in the workplace, school. etc. so the law is on your side. Don't worry about it though, I was in the same situation and they accepted me so if you are an able student there is no reason that they should not accept you. I don't know if there is anyway you can get in contact with me directly on here, but I would be happy to answer anymore questions for you so let me know if you have anymore questions. Good luck don't let anything stop you and just be honest and do not be ashamed. You have a lot to be proud of overcoming what you have overcome and applying to law school.

LateNight
Posts: 136
Joined: Fri Apr 30, 2010 4:08 am

Re: Disclosing Medical Records.

Postby LateNight » Mon May 17, 2010 3:35 am

Thank fa3292,

This makes me reconsider my decision, but I don't know if in my case I really have a compelling story. It is good to know that you weren't 'discriminated' against. I just don't see how admitting to illegal drug use (hard drugs) really helps my case for law school. I could have easily been arrested and prevented from even sitting for the bar. Does the school look up on the fact that I just got lucky? Whereas, a student in my same situation would be S.O.L?

I find this question to be the hardest for me. Admitting to using hard drugs is not something I really want to follow me around the rest of my life, especially when I sit for the bar.

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MrKappus
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Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2009 2:46 am

Re: Disclosing Medical Records.

Postby MrKappus » Mon May 17, 2010 3:38 am

Most bar exam C&F sections have questions about substance abuse, though ones I've seen usually say "w/in the last __ years."

shoop
Posts: 327
Joined: Mon Feb 15, 2010 1:52 pm

Re: Disclosing Medical Records.

Postby shoop » Mon May 17, 2010 10:32 am

lawyerhopefull wrote:Its been awhile since I filled them out, but I think most ask "have you ever done a controlled substance"


Bullshit. Have you ever actually looked at a law school application, or are you just mumbling random shit around the stem of the crackpipe parked in the corner of your mouth? The only way law schools are going to care about any involvement in controlled substances is if you were caught and convicted of a crime involving them. Suggesting that law schools are going to ask whether an applicant has ever used is as stupid as telling people they need to pass a piss test to enroll.




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