Help! AU (PT) v. St. Johns (FT+$$)

(Applications Advice, Letters of Recommendation . . . )
User avatar
3 Stripes
Posts: 57
Joined: Sun May 09, 2010 9:44 pm

Re: Help! AU (PT) v. St. Johns (FT+$$)

Postby 3 Stripes » Tue May 25, 2010 7:25 pm

romothesavior wrote:Haha well played, well played. I knew in the back of my mind that you were trolling but I still couldn't resist.

Where did you transfer to?

Also, fwiw, OP should still not go to American.


OP, go to the school that best fits into your plans/career goals yet makes the most sense financially. Consider where you would like to live and work for the near future, at least.

romo, I hope you're currently attending a T14 (or will be this upcoming Fall) with the way you talk down law schools, T1s and T2s. And, if you didn't notice in my response to your intial poster, I openly admitted that American doesn't place a high number of grads into biglaw (but many biglaw firms in DC do have solid representation of American grads) and that AU grads tend to go into PI, govt., clerkships and other firms in the private sector. You trolling against American is really pointless and doesn't take this fact away. And with regards to your point about the current state of the legal market and the DC market, DC is one of the hardest (if not the hardest) market to break into for work. Period. The T14s and other schools you mentioned ahead of American in regards to DC placement are having a hard time in this economy breaking into the NYC and DC markets. And given this economy, those schools are probably having a hard time placing grads in their own markets, let alone in DC and NYC. While the economy has affected all schools' placement, I doubt American grads are having that difficult a time finding employment in DC where there's an extensive alumni network and connections for them. Plus, most employers, I'm sure, would much rather hire a grad with ties to the specific market as opposed to graduates from schools outside the region who have no ties/connections to the market. Yes, WCL is expensive but don't knock it for being in a saturated market when it's known that AU grads do fine in DC.

And where the hell did you pull those numbers out for employment before and during this economy? I would love to know the sources and have the links.


You're entitled to your opinion about WCL but don't go slandering the school and its grads. That really just makes you look bad.

User avatar
Always Credited
Posts: 2509
Joined: Wed Jun 24, 2009 1:31 pm

Re: Help! AU (PT) v. St. Johns (FT+$$)

Postby Always Credited » Tue May 25, 2010 7:31 pm

3 Stripes wrote:
romothesavior wrote:Haha well played, well played. I knew in the back of my mind that you were trolling but I still couldn't resist.

Where did you transfer to?

Also, fwiw, OP should still not go to American.


OP, go to the school that best fits into your plans/career goals yet makes the most sense financially. Consider where you would like to live and work for the near future, at least.

romo, I hope you're currently attending a T14 (or will be this upcoming Fall) with the way you talk down law schools, T1s and T2s. And, if you didn't notice in my response to your intial poster, I openly admitted that American doesn't place a high number of grads into biglaw (but many biglaw firms in DC do have solid representation of American grads) and that AU grads tend to go into PI, govt., clerkships and other firms in the private sector. You trolling against American is really pointless and doesn't take this fact away. And with regards to your point about the current state of the legal market and the DC market, DC is one of the hardest (if not the hardest) market to break into for work. Period. The T14s and other schools you mentioned ahead of American in regards to DC placement are having a hard time in this economy breaking into the NYC and DC markets. And given this economy, those schools are probably having a hard time placing grads in their own markets, let alone in DC and NYC. While the economy has affected all schools' placement, I doubt American grads are having that difficult a time finding employment in DC where there's an extensive alumni network and connections for them. Plus, most employers, I'm sure, would much rather hire a grad with ties to the specific market as opposed to graduates from schools outside the region who have no ties/connections to the market. Yes, WCL is expensive but don't knock it for being in a saturated market when it's known that AU grads do fine in DC.

And where the hell did you pull those numbers out for employment before and during this economy? I would love to know the sources and have the links.


You're entitled to your opinion about WCL but don't go slandering the school and its grads. That really just makes you look bad.


http://www.law.com/pdf/nlj/20080414empl ... trends.pdf

St. Johns actually beat American in pre-ITE placement.

Edit: Although to be fair, SJU was plagued by high unemployment

User avatar
najumobi
Posts: 1111
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2008 12:36 pm

Re: Help! AU (PT) v. St. Johns (FT+$$)

Postby najumobi » Tue May 25, 2010 7:33 pm

I think that depending on the circumstance going to American could be a good choice, but i don't think anyone should go there if they're going to end up +200k in debt

User avatar
Grizz
Posts: 10583
Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2010 6:31 pm

Re: Help! AU (PT) v. St. Johns (FT+$$)

Postby Grizz » Tue May 25, 2010 7:38 pm

3 Stripes wrote:And where the hell did you pull those numbers out for employment before and during this economy? I would love to know the sources and have the links.


http://pdfserver.amlaw.com/nlj/law%20schools_charts_page12.pdf - more recent

American at sticker is a terrible investment. I find it hard to believe that only about 15% of American grads want biglaw. Also, prestigious PI, federal positions, and clerkships can be as hard to law as biglaw. Self-selection? I call BS. If you're paying sticker, I hope you land PI for IBR so you won't get stuck working for some small firm with $120k+ hanging over your head.

AU is behind a ton of schools for the DC market. When people at W&M, GW, W&L, etc. are suffering, you can bet AU is gonna get it worse. DC, again, is massively glutted.

User avatar
3 Stripes
Posts: 57
Joined: Sun May 09, 2010 9:44 pm

Re: Help! AU (PT) v. St. Johns (FT+$$)

Postby 3 Stripes » Tue May 25, 2010 7:38 pm

najumobi wrote: i don't think anyone should go [strike]there[/strike] anywhere if they're going to end up +200k in debt


FTFY

User avatar
Grizz
Posts: 10583
Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2010 6:31 pm

Re: Help! AU (PT) v. St. Johns (FT+$$)

Postby Grizz » Tue May 25, 2010 7:39 pm

3 Stripes wrote:
najumobi wrote: i don't think anyone should go [strike]there[/strike] anywhere if they're going to end up +200k in debt


[strike]FTFY[/strike]


HYS.

User avatar
3 Stripes
Posts: 57
Joined: Sun May 09, 2010 9:44 pm

Re: Help! AU (PT) v. St. Johns (FT+$$)

Postby 3 Stripes » Tue May 25, 2010 7:42 pm

Going to HYS doesn't mean one will end up successful.

Going to St. John's doesn't mean that one will not end up successful.

It's sad how some posters base the quality of their futures solely on the schools that they will be attending.

User avatar
najumobi
Posts: 1111
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2008 12:36 pm

Re: Help! AU (PT) v. St. Johns (FT+$$)

Postby najumobi » Tue May 25, 2010 7:45 pm

3 Stripes wrote:
najumobi wrote: i don't think anyone should go [strike]there[/strike] anywhere if they're going to end up +200k in debt


FTFY
so we agree that OP shouldn't go to American since he'd be going at sticker?

User avatar
Grizz
Posts: 10583
Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2010 6:31 pm

Re: Help! AU (PT) v. St. Johns (FT+$$)

Postby Grizz » Tue May 25, 2010 7:50 pm

3 Stripes wrote:Going to HYS doesn't mean one will end up successful.


No, but I'd pay $200,000 for the shot at biglaw, clerkship, or academia

And yes, American at sticker =

Image

User avatar
romothesavior
Posts: 14772
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 4:29 pm

Re: Help! AU (PT) v. St. Johns (FT+$$)

Postby romothesavior » Tue May 25, 2010 7:52 pm

3 Stripes wrote:Going to HYS doesn't mean one will end up successful.

Going to St. John's doesn't mean that one will not end up successful.

It's sad how some posters base the quality of their futures solely on the schools that they will be attending.


Hey, if you wanna operate off of what is "possible," then knock yourself out. Personally, I'm not really a fan of operating off of slim "ifs" or "maybes," especially when it costs me 200k.

And a quick glance at my profile would tell you where I am going, and it is not a T14. Also, I do not knock on lower T1s and T2s, and I actually think some T3s are okay choices. I have reiterated this point time and time again, often times in the face of many of the "elitist trolls" that you TTT apologetics despise. I really believe that a lower ranked school can be a good option at times. But the lower you go on the totem pole, the more homework you have to do. How much will that degree cost you? What are your realistic job opportunities? Is there a market you can tap into, or is the school in an oversaturated market? Again, schools like Florida, SMU, UC Boulder, Case Western, etc. are great options if you can go for cheap and you are satisfied with the market they feed into.

American is not cheap and it doesn't feed into ANY market... it feeds into unemployment and underemployment.

kopper
Posts: 52
Joined: Tue May 19, 2009 12:15 am

Re: Help! AU (PT) v. St. Johns (FT+$$)

Postby kopper » Tue May 25, 2010 7:58 pm

R4NDM H3RO wrote:Whats up guys,

I'm looking for some advice to decide which school would be the better option for me. I got into American's part-time program with no money and St. John's full-time with $18,200 (with TAP it's like $20,000).

Is it really worth paying PT sticker for a school ranked 48 (I plan on working at the same time)? Or should I just go with the money at a T2.

I have hopes of transferring so would going to AU over STJ give me a better edge in terms of moving up higher? Or are their ranking difference negligible.

Thanks in advance!


This may have already been raised however check to see if you can transfer from a part-time program to another school's full-time program. I planning to go going part-time myself and investigated the options of transferring and the one school I researched in the T14 did not accept part-time transfers.

User avatar
bk1
Posts: 18402
Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2010 7:06 pm

Re: Help! AU (PT) v. St. Johns (FT+$$)

Postby bk1 » Tue May 25, 2010 8:05 pm

3 Stripes wrote:Going to HYS doesn't mean one will end up successful.

Going to St. John's doesn't mean that one will not end up successful.

It's sad how some posters base the quality of their futures solely on the schools that they will be attending.


Playing Garry Kasparov at chess doesn't mean I am going to lose.

Playing a monkey at chess doesn't mean I am going to win.

If I was going to be betting $200k on the outcome of the game, I would much rather be playing the monkey.


Seriously, people should be making decisions based on what is probable, not what is possible.
Last edited by bk1 on Tue May 25, 2010 8:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

testmaster85
Posts: 18
Joined: Mon May 24, 2010 11:22 pm

Re: Help! AU (PT) v. St. Johns (FT+$$)

Postby testmaster85 » Tue May 25, 2010 8:07 pm

kopper wrote:
R4NDM H3RO wrote:Whats up guys,

I'm looking for some advice to decide which school would be the better option for me. I got into American's part-time program with no money and St. John's full-time with $18,200 (with TAP it's like $20,000).

Is it really worth paying PT sticker for a school ranked 48 (I plan on working at the same time)? Or should I just go with the money at a T2.

I have hopes of transferring so would going to AU over STJ give me a better edge in terms of moving up higher? Or are their ranking difference negligible.

Thanks in advance!


This may have already been raised however check to see if you can transfer from a part-time program to another school's full-time program. I planning to go going part-time myself and investigated the options of transferring and the one school I researched in the T14 did not accept part-time transfers.


American is a fucking shithole. Even with a full-ride it's a joke. St. John's is the real fucking deal. You are down in the nitty gritty NYC and its a war zone. The top people there do get biglaw. and the tippy top get the tippy top of biglaw. ITS WORTH THE RISK WHEN U HAVE NO DEBT COMING OUT OF ST JOHNS. U HAVE NO DEBT AND A SHOT AT 190K A YEAR INCLUDING BONUS. FUCKING TAKE IT AND WORK UR ASS OFF. U ARE LIVING IN THE MOST BEAUTIFUL CITY IN THE WORLD. ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME, OP!?

R4NDM H3RO
Posts: 24
Joined: Mon May 03, 2010 9:25 pm

Re: Help! AU (PT) v. St. Johns (FT+$$)

Postby R4NDM H3RO » Tue May 25, 2010 8:28 pm

kopper wrote:
R4NDM H3RO wrote:Whats up guys,

I'm looking for some advice to decide which school would be the better option for me. I got into American's part-time program with no money and St. John's full-time with $18,200 (with TAP it's like $20,000).

Is it really worth paying PT sticker for a school ranked 48 (I plan on working at the same time)? Or should I just go with the money at a T2.

I have hopes of transferring so would going to AU over STJ give me a better edge in terms of moving up higher? Or are their ranking difference negligible.

Thanks in advance!


This may have already been raised however check to see if you can transfer from a part-time program to another school's full-time program. I planning to go going part-time myself and investigated the options of transferring and the one school I researched in the T14 did not accept part-time transfers.


I'm was a little confused/worried about this also. According to 'The Art of the Law School Transfer' they say that at the end of your 1L, if you have 15-18 credits then most law schools will not allow you to apply for transfer until you accrue more credits. So what you would have to do is continue your second year and then apply to transfer after you attain the required 30 credits or so.

Along with the $$ this would be another reason why I'd pick St. Johns.. to avoid PT to FT transfer complications.

Does anyone have some knowledge on this?

Thanks for all the input so far.

User avatar
Grizz
Posts: 10583
Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2010 6:31 pm

Re: Help! AU (PT) v. St. Johns (FT+$$)

Postby Grizz » Tue May 25, 2010 9:06 pm

You know what's a lot easier and more likely to work than transferring? Studying for and retaking the LSAT.

User avatar
James Bond
Posts: 2349
Joined: Sun May 31, 2009 12:53 am

Re: Help! AU (PT) v. St. Johns (FT+$$)

Postby James Bond » Tue May 25, 2010 9:13 pm

shutterbug wrote:
James Bond wrote:Please do not go to St. Johns. Oh and you only get that money if you stay in the top 50%


Why you are so down on St. John's? I understand that it lags behind NYU, Columbia, Fordham, and Cardozo in NYC, but it still is a fairly respectable school around here. Granted, the OP will have to kick butt and end up in the top 20% of the class to get a decent job, but sounds like a better fit for what the OP is looking for.


It lags behind Brooklyn too. Don't forget that.

Lets look at it this way. All of the T-14 feeds into NYC. Then you have the school in the T-30 or so that are close like Boston College and Boston U. Then you have the NYC regional schools like Fordham, dozo, and Brooklyn. So AT MINIMUM, you're looking at 19-20 better, more reputable, or just higher-placing schools in the exact market a St. Johns grad is trying for. That's some scary competition

User avatar
kalvano
Posts: 11720
Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2009 2:24 am

Re: Help! AU (PT) v. St. Johns (FT+$$)

Postby kalvano » Tue May 25, 2010 10:05 pm

romothesavior wrote:
kalvano wrote:Big lulz at SMU = less debt.


In all likelihood, SMU would be cheaper for the average applicant because 1) American gives out very little scholarship money, and 2) they are notorious for YPing good candidates (seriously, look at their LSN graphs... they're ridiculous), and 3) D.C. is ridiculously expensive (although I'm sure Dallas ain't cheap either).

But okay... you're right, at sticker there isn't a whole lot of difference. Maybe 10k due to the tuition and COL differences. But just replace SMU with another random, cheap lower T1 or T2 in a decent secondary market and my point remains the same.




I know. I was just poking fun because SMU is stupidly expensive for its rank.

But they actually give out scholarship money. And SMU at sticker would be better than St. Johns.


Oh, and Dallas is dirt cheap for a major city. Anyone from any other major city would pee themselves over the Dallas COL.




Return to “Law School Admissions Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests