Is Michigan really better than UVA?

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Which is it, UVA or Michigan??

University of Virginia
62
42%
University of Michigan
85
58%
 
Total votes: 147

plum
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Re: Is Michigan really better than UVA?

Postby plum » Wed May 12, 2010 10:46 pm

.
Last edited by plum on Thu May 26, 2011 11:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

goodolgil
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Re: Is Michigan really better than UVA?

Postby goodolgil » Wed May 12, 2010 10:53 pm

Clipse rep VA.

nedberg
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Re: Is Michigan really better than UVA?

Postby nedberg » Wed May 12, 2010 10:57 pm

They're basically peer schools today, but this has not always been the case. As I see it, the Michigan > UVA sentiment stems from four major sources:

1) Michigan has historically maintained not only higher but more stable rankings. In 1987, when USNWR first released rankings, Michigan was #3 and UVA was #8. In the subsequent rankings, U of M has fluctuated between 6 and 9, with an average of about 7.5, while UVA has moved between the 7 and 14 spots, with an average closer to 9.5 or 10. (http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_eF5IpaOMmrY/S ... NWRT14.png)

2) Michigan enjoys higher peer assessment scores, which gauge public perception of schools pretty well. UVA's score was 4.4 in the most recent (2011 rankings) poll, while Michigan's score of 4.6 was higher than every school except HYSCC. (http://cache.abovethelaw.com/uploads/20 ... -large.jpg)

3) Michigan historically places more students into clerkships - look at the 1991-2005 numbers here - (http://www.leiterrankings.com/jobs/2000 ... erks.shtml) and, perhaps more importantly, into more Supreme Court clerkships (http://www.leiterrankings.com/jobs/1991 ... erks.shtml)
***Interesting aside: only Yale, Harvard and Columbia have graduated more SCOTUS justices than Michigan

4) Along with HYSCC, Michigan is often considered one of the only schools whose top graduates have a good shot at academia (sorry no evidence here, this is kind of generally accepted)

goodolgil
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Re: Is Michigan really better than UVA?

Postby goodolgil » Wed May 12, 2010 11:00 pm

Virginia does seem a lot harder to get into FWIW. I guess that could be because of its more desirable location?

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GordonBombay
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Re: Is Michigan really better than UVA?

Postby GordonBombay » Wed May 12, 2010 11:00 pm

goodolgil wrote:Clipse rep VA.


Hard!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FEP_HRsDYhk

flcath
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Re: Is Michigan really better than UVA?

Postby flcath » Wed May 12, 2010 11:01 pm

From what I understand (and this is based largely on the word of UMich alumnus Brian LeiTTTer), Michigan was once considered a T6, and so still has a better rep among the older crowd. It has also produced multiple SCOTUS justices (this, of course, really affects you).

They're definitely peer schools now, and there's no way any marginal prestige edge in favor of UMich could ever compensate for three years of that kind of weather.

goodolgil
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Re: Is Michigan really better than UVA?

Postby goodolgil » Wed May 12, 2010 11:01 pm

On a side note, We Got it 4 Cheap vol. 2 is the best mixtape EVAR

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GordonBombay
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Re: Is Michigan really better than UVA?

Postby GordonBombay » Wed May 12, 2010 11:02 pm

goodolgil wrote:On a side note, We Got it 4 Cheap vol. 2 is the best mixtape EVAR


We miss you shampoo

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Holly Golightly
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Re: Is Michigan really better than UVA?

Postby Holly Golightly » Wed May 12, 2010 11:03 pm

GordonBombay wrote:
goodolgil wrote:On a side note, We Got it 4 Cheap vol. 2 is the best mixtape EVAR


We miss you shampoo

Your username makes me happy.

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GordonBombay
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Re: Is Michigan really better than UVA?

Postby GordonBombay » Wed May 12, 2010 11:05 pm

Holly Golightly wrote:
GordonBombay wrote:
goodolgil wrote:On a side note, We Got it 4 Cheap vol. 2 is the best mixtape EVAR


We miss you shampoo

Your username makes me happy.


thank you very much. Couldn't believe it wasn't taken. Never lost a case, perfected the triple deke, what more do you want form our attorney?

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D Brooks
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Re: Is Michigan really better than UVA?

Postby D Brooks » Wed May 12, 2010 11:12 pm

GordonBombay wrote:
goodolgil wrote:Clipse rep VA.


Hard!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FEP_HRsDYhk


Image

plum
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Re: Is Michigan really better than UVA?

Postby plum » Wed May 12, 2010 11:39 pm

flcath wrote:there's no way any marginal prestige edge in favor of UMich could ever compensate for three years of that kind of weather.

this

fortissimo
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Re: Is Michigan really better than UVA?

Postby fortissimo » Wed May 12, 2010 11:48 pm

holydonkey wrote:
miamiman wrote:Serious q: can michigan indefinitely maintain its rank if the larger state in which it operates has...for lack of a better expression, failed?
Not a problem. It's not like the law school is the only top program at Michigan.

#9 School of Education
#8 College of Engineering
#6 Medical School
#9 Earth Sciences
#8 Math
#5 Library and Info Sciences
#4 Poly Sci
#3 Psychology
#7 History
#3 Sociology
#5 Nursing
#7 Public Affairs

etc etc

Also, last I heard, 97% of law grads leave the state.


+1

What are UVA's top ranked departments again? Oh law and business...uh uh uh

UVA sucks in other grad programs. Nobody gives a shit about it in science.

And Charlottesville is literally one quarter of the size of Ann Arbor, plus with 1/4 of the population. Also ANY splitter who EDs gets in....the 25th LSAT at UVA is a 165...because the entire class is comprised of splitters. At Michigan the 25th is a 167. Sorry EDers, but UVA ain't that hard to get into unless both your numbers are good.
Last edited by fortissimo on Wed May 12, 2010 11:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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vanwinkle
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Re: Is Michigan really better than UVA?

Postby vanwinkle » Wed May 12, 2010 11:49 pm

fortissimo wrote:And Charlottesville is literally one quarter of the size of Ann Arbor, plus with 1/4 of the population.

Yes, but that's easily made up for by the fact that it's not in Michigan.

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Re: Is Michigan really better than UVA?

Postby fortissimo » Wed May 12, 2010 11:50 pm

vanwinkle wrote:
fortissimo wrote:And Charlottesville is literally one quarter of the size of Ann Arbor, plus with 1/4 of the population.

Yes, but that's easily made up for by the fact that it's not in Michigan.


It's in fucking Virginia...seriously. VIRGINIA. THE SOUTH. Half your class is comprised of Southerners..for a reason.

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TCScrutinizer
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Re: Is Michigan really better than UVA?

Postby TCScrutinizer » Wed May 12, 2010 11:51 pm

vanwinkle wrote:
fortissimo wrote:And Charlottesville is literally one quarter of the size of Ann Arbor, plus with 1/4 of the population.

Yes, but that's easily made up for by the fact that it's not in Michigan.


Indeed. I've never met a Michigander that I wouldn't leave bleeding on the side of a road in a Central American country.

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vanwinkle
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Re: Is Michigan really better than UVA?

Postby vanwinkle » Wed May 12, 2010 11:53 pm

fortissimo wrote:
vanwinkle wrote:
fortissimo wrote:And Charlottesville is literally one quarter of the size of Ann Arbor, plus with 1/4 of the population.

Yes, but that's easily made up for by the fact that it's not in Michigan.

It's in fucking Virginia...seriously. VIRGINIA. THE SOUTH. Half your class is comprised of Southerners..for a reason.

Charlottesville is a liberal oasis, if your concern is backwards rednecks. There's a wonderful variety of culture and creative spirit here. It's a beautiful town, and it's hard to find people willing to bash it after they've actually been here.

Yes, it's surrounded by the rest of Virginia, but that's a hell of a lot better than being surrounded by the rest of Michigan.

fortissimo
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Re: Is Michigan really better than UVA?

Postby fortissimo » Wed May 12, 2010 11:57 pm

vanwinkle wrote:
fortissimo wrote:
vanwinkle wrote:
fortissimo wrote:And Charlottesville is literally one quarter of the size of Ann Arbor, plus with 1/4 of the population.

Yes, but that's easily made up for by the fact that it's not in Michigan.

It's in fucking Virginia...seriously. VIRGINIA. THE SOUTH. Half your class is comprised of Southerners..for a reason.

Charlottesville is a liberal oasis, if your concern is backwards rednecks. There's a wonderful variety of culture and creative spirit here. It's a beautiful town, and it's hard to find people willing to bash it after they've actually been here.

Yes, it's surrounded by the rest of Virginia, but that's a hell of a lot better than being surrounded by the rest of Michigan.


Charlottesville is probably the most conservative town out of all the top-14 locations..."liberal oasis" huh. I didn't know fratty WASPs epitomized liberalism. Since the town is 40k, of basically just students, it's pretty easy to derive the character of the town from the UVA students.

I visited, once btw.

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vanwinkle
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Re: Is Michigan really better than UVA?

Postby vanwinkle » Thu May 13, 2010 12:00 am

fortissimo wrote:Charlottesville is probably the most conservative town out of all the top-14 locations..."liberal oasis" huh.

There aren't really any "conservative" towns on the T14 list. And that includes Charlottesville.

I doubt you actually visited. Or paid attention to the town, if you did.

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Joan Hollaway
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Re: Is Michigan really better than UVA?

Postby Joan Hollaway » Thu May 13, 2010 12:04 am

vanwinkle wrote:
fortissimo wrote:Charlottesville is probably the most conservative town out of all the top-14 locations..."liberal oasis" huh.

There aren't really any "conservative" towns on the T14 list. And that includes Charlottesville.

I doubt you actually visited. Or paid attention to the town, if you did.


both michigan and virginia suck compared to any metropolis imo but it's just for three years so us uva and umich students will deal with it. not like im planning to spend much time out of the library anyway.

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OperaSoprano
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Re: Is Michigan really better than UVA?

Postby OperaSoprano » Thu May 13, 2010 12:06 am

fortissimo wrote:
vanwinkle wrote:
fortissimo wrote:And Charlottesville is literally one quarter of the size of Ann Arbor, plus with 1/4 of the population.

Yes, but that's easily made up for by the fact that it's not in Michigan.


It's in fucking Virginia...seriously. VIRGINIA. THE SOUTH. Half your class is comprised of Southerners..for a reason.


Possibly for the reason that UVA has a high percentage in state mandate? I also don't see what other graduate programs have to do with this, unless someone is going for a joint degree. People hiring law graduates know the reputation of both schools. This is another one of those dumb debates that could go on for half of forever, like whether GW is better than BU.

UVA and Michigan are both excellent schools. I am an unbiased observer, since I attend neither, and I would pick UVA. In a heartbeat. Charlottesville is quaint and gorgeous and very, very different from my own beloved home city, but I think it would be a wonderful place to attend law school. I'm not knocking Michigan, and I would love a chance to visit. I merely suggest that at this level, personal happiness is bound to play a strong role in school selection, as it should.

EDIT re: Charlottesville: I visited. I spent one long weekend there, and had to be convinced that I wanted to turn around and head back to Manhattan, so yeah, the town is that full of win.

fortissimo
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Re: Is Michigan really better than UVA?

Postby fortissimo » Thu May 13, 2010 12:06 am

vanwinkle wrote:
fortissimo wrote:Charlottesville is probably the most conservative town out of all the top-14 locations..."liberal oasis" huh.

There aren't really any "conservative" towns on the T14 list. And that includes Charlottesville.

I doubt you actually visited. Or paid attention to the town, if you did.


I visited awhile back. It's a nice looking town, but very rural (even more rural than other college towns) and not walkable whatsoever. You practically need a car to get anywhere. I'm from SF originally, so "liberal" doesn't mean willing to just have premarital sex (per other thread). It's really the perfect school for WASPs though. Also I said it is the "most conservative" out of the t-14. You can translate this to "least liberal" if you want.
Last edited by fortissimo on Thu May 13, 2010 12:11 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Bildungsroman
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Re: Is Michigan really better than UVA?

Postby Bildungsroman » Thu May 13, 2010 12:11 am

I can't say definitively which school provides the better legal education, but I would rather attend UVA than UMich.

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D Brooks
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Re: Is Michigan really better than UVA?

Postby D Brooks » Thu May 13, 2010 12:13 am

Image

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soundgardener
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Re: Is Michigan really better than UVA?

Postby soundgardener » Thu May 13, 2010 12:17 am

I'd prefer uva as well, but I'm just a lowly WASP from fly-over country.




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