Does Harvard average LSAT scores?

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pog
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Does Harvard average LSAT scores?

Postby pog » Fri May 07, 2010 5:53 pm

I know the ABA has asked schools to weigh in only the highest reported score... just wondering if HLS looks negatively on retake attempts.

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of Benito Cereno
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Re: Does Harvard average LSAT scores?

Postby of Benito Cereno » Fri May 07, 2010 6:01 pm

pog wrote:I know the ABA has asked schools to weigh in only the highest reported score... just wondering if HLS looks negatively on retake attempts.

Evidence points to kinda/yes.

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Gamecubesupreme
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Re: Does Harvard average LSAT scores?

Postby Gamecubesupreme » Fri May 07, 2010 7:06 pm

Yale and Harvard are probably the only law schools that average (don't quote me on this though).

Just think of it as another way for them to weed out qualified applicants from a ridiculously large pool.

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soundgardener
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Re: Does Harvard average LSAT scores?

Postby soundgardener » Fri May 07, 2010 8:38 pm

I don't think they average; I think they just flat out disregard retakes. There's people on lsn that are like 170 followed by a 180 with a solid gpa that don't get in. Ostensibly the retake is all that separates them from a candidate with the same numbers but no retake.

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Always Credited
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Re: Does Harvard average LSAT scores?

Postby Always Credited » Fri May 07, 2010 8:40 pm

soundgardener wrote:I don't think they average; I think they just flat out disregard retakes. There's people on lsn that are like 170 followed by a 180 with a solid gpa that don't get in. Ostensibly the retake is all that separates them from a candidate with the same numbers but no retake.


Harvard AdComm Confessionals:

"lol you needed a practice run at a test before you aced it? fuck you. dinged, scrub"

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GeePee
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Re: Does Harvard average LSAT scores?

Postby GeePee » Fri May 07, 2010 8:42 pm

soundgardener wrote:I don't think they average; I think they just flat out disregard retakes. There's people on lsn that are like 170 followed by a 180 with a solid gpa that don't get in. Ostensibly the retake is all that separates them from a candidate with the same numbers but no retake.

I don't think I'd be admitted if this were the case. I know a few others that would be in the same boat as well.

I think it's more a matter of needing other factors to overcome a retake score. A retaken LSAT is certainly a strike against you, but it doesn't condemn your application to failure.

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adameus
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Re: Does Harvard average LSAT scores?

Postby adameus » Fri May 07, 2010 8:46 pm

GeePee wrote:
soundgardener wrote:I don't think they average; I think they just flat out disregard retakes. There's people on lsn that are like 170 followed by a 180 with a solid gpa that don't get in. Ostensibly the retake is all that separates them from a candidate with the same numbers but no retake.

I don't think I'd be admitted if this were the case. I know a few others that would be in the same boat as well.

I think it's more a matter of needing other factors to overcome a retake score. A retaken LSAT is certainly a strike against you, but it doesn't condemn your application to failure.


I completely agree.

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soundgardener
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Re: Does Harvard average LSAT scores?

Postby soundgardener » Fri May 07, 2010 8:57 pm

adameus wrote:
GeePee wrote:
soundgardener wrote:I don't think they average; I think they just flat out disregard retakes. There's people on lsn that are like 170 followed by a 180 with a solid gpa that don't get in. Ostensibly the retake is all that separates them from a candidate with the same numbers but no retake.

I don't think I'd be admitted if this were the case. I know a few others that would be in the same boat as well.

I think it's more a matter of needing other factors to overcome a retake score. A retaken LSAT is certainly a strike against you, but it doesn't condemn your application to failure.


I completely agree.


LOL, other factors like a 4.0? Yeah I think that helps. I'm just saying, I've seen a lot of people with identical numbers where one is a re-taker and one is not. Almost every time the re-taker gets pwned. There used to be a dude on TLS that worked on submarines in the navy for several years and had like a 3.9 170/177 and was rejected. I think there's a girl on here now with a 3.8 180 retake that's WL'd.

I'm not saying it's impossible to get in with a retake, but barring an astronomical GPA or yale-esque softs, I wouldn't really hold my breath.

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Always Credited
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Re: Does Harvard average LSAT scores?

Postby Always Credited » Fri May 07, 2010 8:59 pm

soundgardener wrote:
adameus wrote:
GeePee wrote:
soundgardener wrote:I don't think they average; I think they just flat out disregard retakes. There's people on lsn that are like 170 followed by a 180 with a solid gpa that don't get in. Ostensibly the retake is all that separates them from a candidate with the same numbers but no retake.

I don't think I'd be admitted if this were the case. I know a few others that would be in the same boat as well.

I think it's more a matter of needing other factors to overcome a retake score. A retaken LSAT is certainly a strike against you, but it doesn't condemn your application to failure.


I completely agree.


LOL, other factors like a 4.0? Yeah I think that helps. I'm just saying, I've seen a lot of people with identical numbers where one is a re-taker and one is not. Almost every time the re-taker gets pwned. There used to be a dude on TLS that worked on submarines in the navy for several years and had like a 3.9 170/177 and was rejected. I think there's a girl on here now with a 3.8 180 retake that's WL'd.

I'm not saying it's impossible to get in with a retake, but barring an astronomical GPA or yale-esque softs, I wouldn't really hold my breath.


Its possible that there are certain red-flags in those applications outside of the numbers game.

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soundgardener
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Re: Does Harvard average LSAT scores?

Postby soundgardener » Fri May 07, 2010 9:07 pm

Always Credited wrote:Its possible that there are certain red-flags in those applications outside of the numbers game.

It's certainly possible, but I think that there's enough of a pattern to where it's not really probable.

februaryftw
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Re: Does Harvard average LSAT scores?

Postby februaryftw » Fri May 07, 2010 11:39 pm

The one thing we know for certain is that a pure score is better than a retake score at Harvard; so yes, they hold retakes against you. The only definite pattern is that retakers seem to be waitlisted/rejected more often than those with pure scores of the same caliber.

I've seen a fair number of LSN cases where a strict averaging would probably keep the applicant out of Harvard, but they still get in. So averaging can't be it.

I doubt they disregard all but the first take, for the same reason; there are too many exceptions.

I generally think the way at works at Harvard is that--being a numbers heavy school--they place a strong weight on the LSAT as predictive of success, so they rather naturally consider your first take as most important. Once you hit retakes you are in the realm of interpretation so it'll depend on how that retake looks in the context of your application as a whole. If you slam together three LSATs in a row, I suspect your high score won't count as much at Harvard. If you have two tests separated by 3 years, and your recent score is much better, I suspect that is a decent position to be in. If you slam together 3 tests, have a nice high score (175+), and a great application otherwise (3.95+) GPA, decent major, etc.), sure, you're probably fine... and so on...

pog
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Re: Does Harvard average LSAT scores?

Postby pog » Sat May 08, 2010 6:29 pm

If you look at the Harvard website it says:

Should I retake the LSAT?

The LSAT need be taken only once. If you take the test more than once, all scores and their average will be reported and considered.


What do they mean this?

http://www.law.harvard.edu/prospective/ ... tml#retake
Last edited by pog on Sat May 08, 2010 6:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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vanwinkle
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Re: Does Harvard average LSAT scores?

Postby vanwinkle » Sat May 08, 2010 6:30 pm

It seems that they take the highest score for those apps they want to admit, and average those that they don't.

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Nom Sawyer
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Re: Does Harvard average LSAT scores?

Postby Nom Sawyer » Sat May 08, 2010 6:39 pm

vanwinkle wrote:It seems that they take the highest score for those apps they want to admit, and average those that they don't.


But they base who they want to take on the LSAT... Chicken or the Egg haha

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vanwinkle
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Re: Does Harvard average LSAT scores?

Postby vanwinkle » Sat May 08, 2010 6:44 pm

Nom Sawyer wrote:
vanwinkle wrote:It seems that they take the highest score for those apps they want to admit, and average those that they don't.

But they base who they want to take on the LSAT... Chicken or the Egg haha

It's like the Supreme Court. They decide what outcome they want, and then apply the standard of review that gets them there.

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Re: Does Harvard average LSAT scores?

Postby rundoxierun » Sat May 08, 2010 6:51 pm

I pray to god that H&S dont average... I have a 164 and a 177 and I really really really dont want to go to school in NY.. Averaging would instantly take me from HYS down to MVP (no nyc schools and too debt averse to pay what it would likely cost me to attend the notoriously aid stingy chicago and berkeley)

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Nom Sawyer
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Re: Does Harvard average LSAT scores?

Postby Nom Sawyer » Sat May 08, 2010 7:29 pm

tkgrrett wrote:I pray to god that H&S dont average... I have a 164 and a 177 and I really really really dont want to go to school in NY.. Averaging would instantly take me from HYS down to MVP (no nyc schools and too debt averse to pay what it would likely cost me to attend the notoriously aid stingy chicago and berkeley)


you... are... a... AA... male with a good GPA and a 177

translation: you could write about your undying devotion towards becoming a doctor in your law school application or your lifelong wish to go to Stanford and you would still get into Harvard. On first glance. Probably as soon as JR can call you.

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vanwinkle
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Re: Does Harvard average LSAT scores?

Postby vanwinkle » Sat May 08, 2010 7:31 pm

Nom Sawyer wrote:
tkgrrett wrote:I pray to god that H&S dont average... I have a 164 and a 177 and I really really really dont want to go to school in NY.. Averaging would instantly take me from HYS down to MVP (no nyc schools and too debt averse to pay what it would likely cost me to attend the notoriously aid stingy chicago and berkeley)


you... are... a... AA... male with a good GPA and a 177

translation: you could write about your undying devotion towards becoming a doctor in your law school application or your lifelong wish to go to Stanford and you would still get into Harvard. On first glance. Probably as soon as JR can call you.

For an AA male with a decent GPA and a PS with proper grammar and spelling, Harvard would take the damn 164, so who cares if they average or not.

rundoxierun
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Re: Does Harvard average LSAT scores?

Postby rundoxierun » Sat May 08, 2010 7:37 pm

vanwinkle wrote:
Nom Sawyer wrote:
tkgrrett wrote:I pray to god that H&S dont average... I have a 164 and a 177 and I really really really dont want to go to school in NY.. Averaging would instantly take me from HYS down to MVP (no nyc schools and too debt averse to pay what it would likely cost me to attend the notoriously aid stingy chicago and berkeley)


you... are... a... AA... male with a good GPA and a 177

translation: you could write about your undying devotion towards becoming a doctor in your law school application or your lifelong wish to go to Stanford and you would still get into Harvard. On first glance. Probably as soon as JR can call you.

For an AA male with a decent GPA and a PS with proper grammar and spelling, Harvard would take the damn 164, so who cares if they average or not.


ehhh.. everyone says this but it doesnt make the anxiety any better.. I just cant wait til september/october comes around so I can get these apps out and just forget about them.

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vanwinkle
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Re: Does Harvard average LSAT scores?

Postby vanwinkle » Sat May 08, 2010 7:41 pm

tkgrrett wrote:ehhh.. everyone says this but it doesnt make the anxiety any better.. I just cant wait til september/october comes around so I can get these apps out and just forget about them.

I certainly understand that, but if Harvard is going to overlook a low LSAT score in favor of a higher one for anyone, it's going to be for a URM, especially an AA male. A 177 LSAT is gold. It helps them maintain their LSAT median very well, while also admitting a URM that's very highly sought after.

Good luck with your cycle this fall.

s419
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Re: Does Harvard average LSAT scores?

Postby s419 » Sun May 09, 2010 10:33 am

In my case, I don't think HLS averaged. I have a 163 and 175 (avg 169) and exactly two years between the two scores. Admitted in the first round of JR2s before Thanksgiving. Not URM either and relatively good/unique softs but nothing ground-breaking or prestigious.

cflames7
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Re: Does Harvard average LSAT scores?

Postby cflames7 » Sun May 09, 2010 10:51 am

I don't think it is easy to predict a cycle for applicants who retake. In my case I was admitted after a three-take. My highest LSAT was at Harvard's median and my three-score average is below 170. I was also denied admission when I applied a year ago.

Take that for what it is worth.




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