How do you all feel about Biglaw?

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motiontodismiss
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Re: How do you all feel about Biglaw?

Postby motiontodismiss » Mon May 10, 2010 1:22 am

JollyGreenGiant wrote:
motiontodismiss wrote:
aznflyingpanda wrote:
motiontodismiss wrote:1. Work in biglaw
2. Save money
3. Work in biglaw some more
4. Build my dream house from scratch
5. Work in biglaw some more to pay for #4
6. Find a girl I like, live together, adopt kids, and go just short of marriage
7. Work in biglaw some more
8. Buy rental properties and summer properties
9. Work in biglaw, but part time, because otherwise I'd die of boredom
10. Drop dead

At least that's the plan for now.


I like my plan better because I hold off on my dream house and buy rental properties sooner. The less I work the happier I'll be. I'm not a fricking workaholic. Also I'd like to get married, but I don't give a crap about kids so I'll save some $$$ there too. Kids are expensive.


To each their own I guess. I could never see myself retiring. Ever. The closest I'll get is semiretirement (or an occasional sabbatical). I need the mental stimulation. As for building the dream house, it's been a fantasy of mine since 9th grade lol. And I'd like to live in it for a long time.


My 9th grade house had secret doors and slides. Hell, my current dream house has those.


Lol. Sounds good. Secret doors are a cool idea. Maybe a fire pole too straight into the kitchen.

PunjabiLower
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Re: How do you all feel about Biglaw?

Postby PunjabiLower » Mon May 10, 2010 1:37 am

free time>money

screw biglaw

Doodsmack
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Re: How do you all feel about Biglaw?

Postby Doodsmack » Mon May 10, 2010 1:47 am

I just think that in order for it to be a wise decision to enter biglaw, one should have experience working the kind of hours required. People like to take an annual billable requirement and divide by the number of weeks in a year to figure out your "average," but that's really meaningless considering that 1) the firm owns you and decides when you work, sometimes on short notice, and 2) you WILL have months-long stretches where you literally have no life outside of your job. I wouldn't try to tell anyone what to do with his/her life, but I would just recommend against justifying your decision in the abstract without any experience ("hey, you have to work long hours to make money in this world, it's just a fact").

honestabe84
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Re: How do you all feel about Biglaw?

Postby honestabe84 » Mon May 10, 2010 2:45 am

It's pretty obvious - Some people are suited for biglaw and others are not. Some will hate it and others wont.

It's really a matter of your personality. Some people are simply made to work long grueling hours and others have a hard time putting in 40 hrs a week.

End of story.

Doodsmack
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Re: How do you all feel about Biglaw?

Postby Doodsmack » Mon May 10, 2010 9:02 am

honestabe84 wrote:It's pretty obvious - Some people are suited for biglaw and others are not. Some will hate it and others wont.

It's really a matter of your personality. Some people are simply made to work long grueling hours and others have a hard time putting in 40 hrs a week.

End of story.


I'm not sure it's that clear-cut. Someone who is gung-ho about biglaw and seems in their first year like they are made for the long hours may get worn out.I mean, there's an argument to be made that no person can endure those hours for so many years and not get worn out. They can just learn to put up with it.

LateNight
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Re: How do you all feel about Biglaw?

Postby LateNight » Tue May 11, 2010 9:08 am

I am made to be poor. That is why I am going to law school.

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SaintClarence27
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Re: How do you all feel about Biglaw?

Postby SaintClarence27 » Tue May 11, 2010 9:15 am

I don't think I'd have a problem with it. I worked in Social Work.

legalized
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Re: How do you all feel about Biglaw?

Postby legalized » Wed May 12, 2010 10:05 am

DoubleChecks wrote:
legalized wrote:
DoubleChecks wrote:
Dtackpat75 wrote:I don't know where this whole I just want to make 100K at some point in time and have a nice family life, be a t-ball coach, retire early mentality comes from. It frankly is not a reality. Lawyer, banker, doctor, accountant, consultant, all of these jobs pay well (generally) and require alot of time. If you want to have a nice house, nice things, do "interesting work", be able to put kids through college, and spend the last 20 years of your life in retirement, then your are going to have to work...and work hard. Ofcourse, you could always take out a lot of deby, finance everything and just die before the bill collectors take everything. I mean your kids will pay it all off for you. Plus, what does it matter to you, you will be dead.

Sorry the movies aren't real boys and girls.


? I disagree if your goal is $100,000 at some point in time lol. Accountants, engineers, pharmacists, dentists, office managers (not all, but certainly some), etc. There are "a lot" of jobs/professions that can eventually pay $100,000 and leave plenty of time for a nice family life, be a t-ball coach, and retire before 66 lol. I think it is very much reality -- the only sticking point is they are really only accessible to those well educated.

I'm not saying they arent stressful at all or that they dont require a lot of time, but most of those i listed are 9-5 (8-5?) jobs w/ no work on weekends that can eventually top 3 figures and arent in the same ballpark of stress and time consumption as biglaw.

Working 'hard' is a relative term, so cant comment on that lol. But if education is the key to opportunities, a lot of these jobs exist.


Doctors have paperwork to do after they see patients.

Office managers have the stress of hiring the right people, and firing the wrong ones, on the usually limited budget.

SOX makes all of what you just said a lie for the accounting field...if you are in the 6 figures range you are first in line to be strung up by your balls if an i was dotted wrong or a t not crossed. I know a Division controller at a Fortune 500 company who demoted HIMSELF to a plant controller for the company and it was a shock to everyone but no surprise to me because as an intern people share gripes with me they don't share with more powerful folks, and he had told me if SOX existed when he was graduating, he would never have worked for a public company, or maybe not even majored in accounting at all.

He got in the field to spend most of his time doing actual accounting, and thanks to the SOX ish he spends most of his time running around making paper trails to keep his rear end from being exposed due to someone else's negligence. He warned me even though I wasn't set for accounting that his advice to me in the working world is to have a paper trail for EVERYthing. He seemed very angry about the way SOX changed his job and very miserable.

So ahm yeah, life is hard and work is hard anyway you take it.

I use to say I don't want biglaw because I have heard people don't have time for children while working and that crushes the career prospects there for women...but then I realized a few things that are true for me but not a lot of other women my age getting out of law school:

a. I have a business degree and corporate finance experience...if there is any area of law I am immediately suited for upon graduation without excess need for training, it's actually corporate law. lol. I just have a fire inside for immigration and family law because they seem to more readily lend themselves to my own practice sooner or later.

b. I already have the amount of children I want. So the concern women have about taking time off and losing their advancement because they want to have children and must be out (if they give a damn about the kid's health) to breastfeed and all that...that doesn't apply to me. Matter of fact while they are out I can take over their work cause I will never have a need for such time off again.

c. My little one will be past kindergarten by the time I start working. I won't have a TODDLER to deal with who doesn't understand if you have to work extra some days and then be home regular time other days.

d. I have worked the rinky dink retail jobs that tend to attract women with children and no professional or M-F clerical job, because they are flexible and don't b*tch about time off. The pay of those jobs ensures that women with children who most need the money stay broke and can't do sh*t with any so called free time anyway. If you are going to be stuck in a work-home grind, there should be more to show for it than hanging on to a roof over your head.

e. Life with no money isn't noble, it's STRESSFUL and unpleasant.

f. I love suits. I don't like having to think about what I need to wear to work everyday. 50 of the same thing is FINE with me, it's basically another kind of uniform and uniform jobs save the fashion decisions being made every morning.

g. If I can work in a gas station while in school I can do anything else. Hard work doesn't faze me. Hard work for b.s. pay pisses me off though.

h. My culture is used to live-in helpers. I would have one from back home no problem if I got a biglaw job. I don't like sending kids out to strangers anyway, should be someone that stays and grows with the family. That's what I had when I was back home. It's just priced like a luxury here.

So when I re-evaluated, I realized with older children who don't need as much handholding, and the ability to afford a live-in helper and even a good private school, plus the business background I already have...biglaw might actually be suited to me. Plus they are always complaining about their lack of women and minorities. I can kill 3 birds with one stone for them, and never need maternity leave. Associate, female, minority, and no need for a mommy track. Super.

That said, I am getting into law wanting to do my own practice eventually, because I don't want to answer to someone else forever.

So I feel like biglaw is just one more option. If I don't go to a top school, I can erase it as an option because I am NOT killing myself to be top of the class. Biglaw is not holy grail for me, and while I like money because I know what it's like to need it and not have it, money can't rule me, exactly because I have learned how to live regardless of if money is in my life or not. Once it doesn't have that power over you you feel a lot freer to make decisions that work for you.

Are there any biglaw immigration/family law firms? Just wondering.


lol why did you even quote my post? your post barely even relates to it...and it certainly only addressed things i didnt talk about...

1) i never mentioned doctors; im assuming by doctors you didnt mean dentists and pharmacists...even so, it goes on to point 2

2) i made it clear i didnt say these jobs WERENT stressful, i just said you could have a 9-5 life, t-ball coach, etc. etc. while making 100k...and i was saying most of them were not AS stressful as biglaw (assuming you're not pushing yourself more to break that 100k, i.e. a dentist who owns 2 of his own places or something)

3) the rest of your post was just about your own goals and plans...good for you? lol, i dont see how SOX makes everything i said about accounting a lie...does it somehow make it longer than an 8-5 ish job? does it not eventually pay $100k? cuz i dont think i said anything else about accounting that you were 'trying' to disprove


1. I was addressing both you and the guy you quoted. He mentioned doctors. You mentioned other medical fields and I don't know about dentists but pharmacists most assuredly have long hours. on their FEET. They often work 7 days on, 7 days off, and can easily be put on the overnight shift as a newbie if not at a retail pharmacy that doesn't open overnight.

2. I made it clear these jobs ARE stressful, and often involve an element that is NOT 9-5.

3. I was answering how I feel about biglaw (the OP post) with the rest of that...just details that show why my automatic "no" that I originally had towards biglaw has changed. Not part of your post. I should have separated the thoughts with **** or something, sorry.

4. Yes SOX makes a manager-level accountants job NOT 9-5ish, and often like a traveling consultant-ish. Putting out fires and covering his own azz. The life that man was living when he demoted himself was not 9-5, and involved travelling way more than he intended, and yes, was messing with his family time.

Anything paying a lot sucks a lot of time. Just how it is, as another poster stated.

And even entry level accountants (at least doing corporate accounting) are trapped in the office with pizza ordered by management doing month-end closing, and year end closing is a vacation killer.

I think you all don't know the true job descriptions of these positions or they would not look SO much less stressful than law. They are all stress, and the higher up the responsibility chain you go, the more there comes times, and more frequently, when you are in the office before-hours or after-hours.

I gave real life examples because I have family, friends, or past coworkers in these positions. So looking around for a job that pays 6 figures and is just 9-5 is not the way to think of it. Looking for a career doing something you enjoy that can bring you high income and for an employer in that career field that allows you the work life balance that works for you and your family might work out better. That's why they tell people when you're doing something you enjoy doing, it won't seem like such work. Cause at the higher paying levels you better enjoy it for the commitment it will demand of you.

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T14_Scholly
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Re: How do you all feel about Biglaw?

Postby T14_Scholly » Wed May 12, 2010 10:21 am

legalized wrote: So looking around for a job that pays 6 figures and is just 9-5 is not the way to think of it. Looking for a career doing something you enjoy that can bring you high income and for an employer in that career field that allows you the work life balance that works for you and your family might work out better.


You say you're willing to work long hours to make a lot of money, but want a work life balance that works for your family. So clearly there's a certain limit to the amount of hours you want to work. Unfortunately, in biglaw, you'll be working past that limit.

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Shot007
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Re: How do you all feel about Biglaw?

Postby Shot007 » Wed May 12, 2010 10:22 am

It funny how, generally the best jobs (money wise) are the ones that are ranked pretty low for stress levels.

sort this chart by annual top level salary, the top ten jobs money-wise (including Attorney) are all pretty low in terms of overall job quality.

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big_blue79
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Re: How do you all feel about Biglaw?

Postby big_blue79 » Wed May 12, 2010 11:34 am

motiontodismiss wrote:Lol. Sounds good. Secret doors are a cool idea. Maybe a fire pole too straight into the kitchen.


+1. A fire pole is just a stripper pole waiting to happen.

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DoubleChecks
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Re: How do you all feel about Biglaw?

Postby DoubleChecks » Wed May 12, 2010 1:28 pm

legalized wrote:1. I was addressing both you and the guy you quoted. He mentioned doctors. You mentioned other medical fields and I don't know about dentists but pharmacists most assuredly have long hours. on their FEET. They often work 7 days on, 7 days off, and can easily be put on the overnight shift as a newbie if not at a retail pharmacy that doesn't open overnight.

2. I made it clear these jobs ARE stressful, and often involve an element that is NOT 9-5.

3. I was answering how I feel about biglaw (the OP post) with the rest of that...just details that show why my automatic "no" that I originally had towards biglaw has changed. Not part of your post. I should have separated the thoughts with **** or something, sorry.

4. Yes SOX makes a manager-level accountants job NOT 9-5ish, and often like a traveling consultant-ish. Putting out fires and covering his own azz. The life that man was living when he demoted himself was not 9-5, and involved travelling way more than he intended, and yes, was messing with his family time.

Anything paying a lot sucks a lot of time. Just how it is, as another poster stated.

And even entry level accountants (at least doing corporate accounting) are trapped in the office with pizza ordered by management doing month-end closing, and year end closing is a vacation killer.

I think you all don't know the true job descriptions of these positions or they would not look SO much less stressful than law. They are all stress, and the higher up the responsibility chain you go, the more there comes times, and more frequently, when you are in the office before-hours or after-hours.

I gave real life examples because I have family, friends, or past coworkers in these positions. So looking around for a job that pays 6 figures and is just 9-5 is not the way to think of it. Looking for a career doing something you enjoy that can bring you high income and for an employer in that career field that allows you the work life balance that works for you and your family might work out better. That's why they tell people when you're doing something you enjoy doing, it won't seem like such work. Cause at the higher paying levels you better enjoy it for the commitment it will demand of you.


aw see now you just didnt even read what you quoted. the guy i quoted said doctors WERE a stressful job that had poor QOL and could not achieve a 9-5, t-ball, etc., and i agreed w/ him, thus my exclusion of it when i talked about those types of jobs...lol so you kinda refuted something that no one objected to.

pharmacists may have shitty schedules, but that is just some. while retail is stressful, it is NOT the long hours that biglaw entails. even the 7 days on, 7 days off -> 7 days off. for the most part, putting in a few yrs in pharm retail, you can dictate your schedule somewhat. i also know a lot of pharmacists of varying generations, and they are able to get a 9-5ish job, though it depends where in pharm they work as well (i.e. one is nuclear pharmacist so works graveyard shift a lot though...which sucks). dentists are my greatest regret. QOL + time + money = i shoulda gone that route lol.

and really, you are either just skimming over my comments or misunderstanding lol. once again, i did not disagree w/ you. those jobs ARE stressful, i never stated otherwise. im just saying most of them (and yes feel free to find me an exception to the rule) allow for a 9-5 ish life, t-ball coach, etc. much better than biglaw can...and they have 6 figure salaries

the part of you saying you shouldnt go after jobs just for the money is true, i was just pointing out the existence of these jobs. tbh, SOX is relatively new so i dont know its impact too well...but i still believe that, for the most part, accountants in general that make ~100k are on a more 9-5 schedule than biglaw lawyers are lol.

going up the chain certainly means more work/responsibility, but im talking more about the minimum threshold for that ~100k salary. and i dont think we are (I am?) downplaying the stress of other jobs...more like playing up the stress of biglaw, which scares the shit out of me.

SuperFreak
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Re: How do you all feel about Biglaw?

Postby SuperFreak » Thu May 27, 2010 8:35 am

Yes. $$$. Backstabbing. Exit options.

Mike19
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Re: How do you all feel about Biglaw?

Postby Mike19 » Thu May 27, 2010 9:29 am

Pearalegal wrote:They're not going to pay you 200,000 out of law school to play with bunnies.



A few pages back. But this is the single greatest qoute. ever.

starstruck393
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Re: How do you all feel about Biglaw?

Postby starstruck393 » Thu May 27, 2010 10:12 am

Mike19 wrote:
Pearalegal wrote:They're not going to pay you 200,000 out of law school to play with bunnies.



A few pages back. But this is the single greatest qoute. ever.


Shit, really? I love bunnies. You're telling me I've been lied to all this time? :cry:




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