Weird line in Cornell scholarship letter

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NervousInKC
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Re: Weird line in Cornell scholarship letter

Postby NervousInKC » Thu May 06, 2010 9:30 pm

shepdawg wrote:These scholarships are crazy full of conditions. Mine says that the scholarship becomes a loan with back interest if I transfer or don't take the CA bar exam.


Which school said that?

goodolgil
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Re: Weird line in Cornell scholarship letter

Postby goodolgil » Thu May 06, 2010 10:03 pm

I dunno. Some of it I don't buy. Schools charge astronomical tuitions, and then give some students small discounts so they can boost their USNWR rank and now all of a sudden there's a moral obligation to donate to the school?

I'm all for giving back, but I don't find a scholarship offer to be a particularly compelling reason.

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romothesavior
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Re: Weird line in Cornell scholarship letter

Postby romothesavior » Thu May 06, 2010 10:11 pm

kaydish21 wrote:I've seen a bunch of PI scholarships that also state there is an either implicit or explicit expectation that the scholarship is repaid if you do not enter public interest law. Some of them have interest and others don't. Nonetheless, the wording in that is beyond ridiculous.


This is a different issue. PI schollies are given with certain strings attached (namely, that you enter public interest work). Those types of lines serve as a reminder to students that they must enter PI if they wish to retain the scholarship, otherwise they have to pay it back.

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Helmholtz
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Re: Weird line in Cornell scholarship letter

Postby Helmholtz » Thu May 06, 2010 10:14 pm

I laughed. Could somebody on here reply to Cornell with a philosophical argument on why no such moral obligation exists?

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romothesavior
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Re: Weird line in Cornell scholarship letter

Postby romothesavior » Thu May 06, 2010 10:18 pm

Helmholtz wrote:I laughed. Could somebody on here reply to Cornell with a philosophical argument on why no such moral obligation exists?


Dear Cornell,

Your scholarship represents a "bribe" of sorts, which is specifically designed to attract my high GPA and LSAT score and thus, increase your ranking in the USNWR (although such an inrease is unlikely, given the large gap between you and the T12). You got exactly what you "paid for" when you awarded me this scholarship; nothing more, nothing less. As such, I am not morally obligated to repay this scholarship.

Sincerely,
An applicant who actually got scholly $$$, unlike romothesavior

pegleg
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Re: Weird line in Cornell scholarship letter

Postby pegleg » Fri May 07, 2010 6:28 pm

shepdawg wrote:These scholarships are crazy full of conditions. Mine says that the scholarship becomes a loan with back interest if I transfer or don't take the CA bar exam.


What school??

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extragnarls
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Re: Weird line in Cornell scholarship letter

Postby extragnarls » Fri May 07, 2010 10:45 pm

romothesavior wrote:
Helmholtz wrote:I laughed. Could somebody on here reply to Cornell with a philosophical argument on why no such moral obligation exists?


Dear Cornell,

Your scholarship represents a "bribe" of sorts, which is specifically designed to attract my high GPA and LSAT score and thus, increase your ranking in the USNWR (although such an inrease is unlikely, given the large gap between you and the T12). You got exactly what you "paid for" when you awarded me this scholarship; nothing more, nothing less. As such, I am not morally obligated to repay this scholarship.

Sincerely,
An applicant who actually got scholly $$$, unlike romothesavior


This is philosophy major-approved. The way Cornell said it was mad tacky, and it's strange a law school of all places would be so careless with a word like "moral." But, here at UVA they just like to remind us about our extremely high alumni giving rate any time it's even vaguely relevant. Apparently it's the highest in the country, which is something to take pride in (not so subtle UVA trolling), but it's still not like we don't all know why they're reminding us about that.

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FlightoftheEarls
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Re: Weird line in Cornell scholarship letter

Postby FlightoftheEarls » Fri May 07, 2010 11:16 pm

extragnarls wrote:
romothesavior wrote:
Helmholtz wrote:I laughed. Could somebody on here reply to Cornell with a philosophical argument on why no such moral obligation exists?


Dear Cornell,

Your scholarship represents a "bribe" of sorts, which is specifically designed to attract my high GPA and LSAT score and thus, increase your ranking in the USNWR (although such an inrease is unlikely, given the large gap between you and the T12). You got exactly what you "paid for" when you awarded me this scholarship; nothing more, nothing less. As such, I am not morally obligated to repay this scholarship.

Sincerely,
An applicant who actually got scholly $$$, unlike romothesavior


This is philosophy major-approved. The way Cornell said it was mad tacky, and it's strange a law school of all places would be so careless with a word like "moral." But, here at UVA they just like to remind us about our extremely high alumni giving rate any time it's even vaguely relevant. Apparently it's the highest in the country, which is something to take pride in (not so subtle UVA trolling), but it's still not like we don't all know why they're reminding us about that.

Agreed. The moral obligation thing is absurd. You are doing them a favor by giving them better numbers to increase their position, and I think it's foolish to think for a second that they aren't offering you money hoping to attract better candidates to make their school look better.

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romothesavior
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Re: Weird line in Cornell scholarship letter

Postby romothesavior » Fri May 07, 2010 11:19 pm

extragnarls wrote:
romothesavior wrote:
Helmholtz wrote:I laughed. Could somebody on here reply to Cornell with a philosophical argument on why no such moral obligation exists?


Dear Cornell,

Your scholarship represents a "bribe" of sorts, which is specifically designed to attract my high GPA and LSAT score and thus, increase your ranking in the USNWR (although such an inrease is unlikely, given the large gap between you and the T12). You got exactly what you "paid for" when you awarded me this scholarship; nothing more, nothing less. As such, I am not morally obligated to repay this scholarship.

Sincerely,
An applicant who actually got scholly $$$, unlike romothesavior


This is philosophy major-approved. The way Cornell said it was mad tacky, and it's strange a law school of all places would be so careless with a word like "moral." But, here at UVA they just like to remind us about our extremely high alumni giving rate any time it's even vaguely relevant. Apparently it's the highest in the country, which is something to take pride in (not so subtle UVA trolling), but it's still not like we don't all know why they're reminding us about that.


Well, I am a philosophy major... so I know a thing or two about moral judgments. :D

(Hint: THEY'RE ALL FALSE! Richard Joyce + J.L. Mackie FTW!)

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Borhas
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Re: Weird line in Cornell scholarship letter

Postby Borhas » Sat May 08, 2010 7:08 am

goodolgil wrote:"Please note that scholarship awards are given with the understanding that there is a moral obligation to repay the Law School if future financial circumstances permit repayment."

Oh whatever.

Oh, and tuition is $51,150 for the coming year. Jesus.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

wtf is wrong with them, moral obligation? GTFO

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ShibaDan
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Re: Weird line in Cornell scholarship letter

Postby ShibaDan » Sat May 08, 2010 8:07 am

Borhas wrote:
goodolgil wrote:"Please note that scholarship awards are given with the understanding that there is a moral obligation to repay the Law School if future financial circumstances permit repayment."

Oh whatever.

Oh, and tuition is $51,150 for the coming year. Jesus.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

wtf is wrong with them, moral obligation? GTFO


Yeah, not just you but mine had that too. I was wondering if it was only put on larger schollys? If you don't mind sharing was yours rather big? Mine was 90k and so I felt like even though it wad handled really poorly, I got what they were saying. I still chose mich though so whatevs.

musicfor18
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Re: Weird line in Cornell scholarship letter

Postby musicfor18 » Sat May 08, 2010 8:58 am

The scholarship notification I got from WUSTL had a similar, but decidedly less tacky, sentence:

"As is the case with all our awards, we hope your success as a Scholar in Law, during and after law school, will inspire and enable you to repay this award at some point in your career for the benefit of future students."

goodolgil
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Re: Weird line in Cornell scholarship letter

Postby goodolgil » Sat May 08, 2010 4:37 pm

def2104 wrote:
Borhas wrote:
goodolgil wrote:"Please note that scholarship awards are given with the understanding that there is a moral obligation to repay the Law School if future financial circumstances permit repayment."

Oh whatever.

Oh, and tuition is $51,150 for the coming year. Jesus.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

wtf is wrong with them, moral obligation? GTFO


Yeah, not just you but mine had that too. I was wondering if it was only put on larger schollys? If you don't mind sharing was yours rather big? Mine was 90k and so I felt like even though it wad handled really poorly, I got what they were saying. I still chose mich though so whatevs.


Nah, mine was just 45k

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shepdawg
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Re: Weird line in Cornell scholarship letter

Postby shepdawg » Sun May 09, 2010 1:50 am

pegleg wrote:
shepdawg wrote:These scholarships are crazy full of conditions. Mine says that the scholarship becomes a loan with back interest if I transfer or don't take the CA bar exam.


What school??

California Western

pegleg
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Re: Weird line in Cornell scholarship letter

Postby pegleg » Sun May 09, 2010 11:57 am

shepdawg wrote:
pegleg wrote:
shepdawg wrote:These scholarships are crazy full of conditions. Mine says that the scholarship becomes a loan with back interest if I transfer or don't take the CA bar exam.


What school??

California Western



Was that expressly stated in your scholarship letter?

sharpnsmooth
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Re: Weird line in Cornell scholarship letter

Postby sharpnsmooth » Sun May 09, 2010 12:04 pm

goodolgil wrote:"Please note that scholarship awards are given with the understanding that there is a moral obligation to repay the Law School if future financial circumstances permit repayment."

Oh whatever.

Oh, and tuition is $51,150 for the coming year. Jesus.


i understand all of the above arguments, but i don't have a problem with it. it's stating that if you're so wealthy that you can afford to pay it back then you should. this being said, by leaving a sour taste in your mouth, they seem to be hurting their ability to get a much larger donation from you should circumstances make such a donation possible. the concept is fine, but the execution is poor.

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legalease9
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Re: Weird line in Cornell scholarship letter

Postby legalease9 » Sun May 09, 2010 12:22 pm

romothesavior wrote:
kaydish21 wrote:I've seen a bunch of PI scholarships that also state there is an either implicit or explicit expectation that the scholarship is repaid if you do not enter public interest law. Some of them have interest and others don't. Nonetheless, the wording in that is beyond ridiculous.


This is a different issue. PI schollies are given with certain strings attached (namely, that you enter public interest work). Those types of lines serve as a reminder to students that they must enter PI if they wish to retain the scholarship, otherwise they have to pay it back.


Exactly. The whole idea of the scholarship is to help PI candidates live on their low income, not get corporate lawyers richer. PI schollys are designed to help the community, unlike Cornell's moral obligation, which is designed to enrich the University.

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legalease9
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Re: Weird line in Cornell scholarship letter

Postby legalease9 » Sun May 09, 2010 12:24 pm

romothesavior wrote:
holybartender wrote:It comes in every Cornell scholarship letter. It has no binding force, they're just saying if you make boatloads of money later it'd be nice if you donated to the school.


There are ways of going about this without calling it a "moral obligation." Also, its bad form to be soliciting donations before you even send in a deposit.


This.

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SaintClarence27
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Re: Weird line in Cornell scholarship letter

Postby SaintClarence27 » Sun May 09, 2010 1:48 pm

musicfor18 wrote:The scholarship notification I got from WUSTL had a similar, but decidedly less tacky, sentence:

"As is the case with all our awards, we hope your success as a Scholar in Law, during and after law school, will inspire and enable you to repay this award at some point in your career for the benefit of future students."


See, I think this phrasing was entirely appropriate and well-considered. The Cornell phrasing, with their explicit guilt-tripping, was rather douchey. Seriously, I'd have to REALLY want to attend Cornell for that to not turn me off of the school. "Moral" obligation? WTF??? You should tell them that they have a MORAL OBLIGATION to find you a biglaw job then!

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shepdawg
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Re: Weird line in Cornell scholarship letter

Postby shepdawg » Sun May 09, 2010 2:32 pm

pegleg wrote:Was that expressly stated in your scholarship letter?

"In the event that I transfer or withdraw from California Western, or do not take the California Bar as stated above, I understand that the scholarship will revert to a loan, retroactive to the date I enrolled, and I must repay the loan in full plus interest."

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Big Shrimpin
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Re: Weird line in Cornell scholarship letter

Postby Big Shrimpin » Sun May 09, 2010 2:47 pm

shepdawg wrote:
pegleg wrote:Was that expressly stated in your scholarship letter?

"In the event that I transfer or withdraw from California Western, or do not take the California Bar as stated above, I understand that the scholarship will revert to a loan, retroactive to the date I enrolled, and I must repay the loan in full plus interest."


wowzers...Ks, ftw

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KMaine
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Re: Weird line in Cornell scholarship letter

Postby KMaine » Sun May 09, 2010 2:56 pm

Did also find the Cornell language to be poorly chosen. Think that the term "bribe" is a little extreme. The fact is, if it wasn't for alumni contributions many more of us would be paying sticker at schools. In that way, if I do become financially successful, I do feel somewhat obliged to help others have the same opportunity that I did. However, I do not quite think that it is a moral obligation, and if it is, I don't really want somebody else telling me that it is.

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iShotFirst
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Re: Weird line in Cornell scholarship letter

Postby iShotFirst » Sun May 09, 2010 3:04 pm

Ya you are supposed to donate to a school because they helped you get somewhere in life and you liked your experience, not because they try and guilt trip you. Attitude like that would make me not even want to donate later.

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violinst
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Re: Weird line in Cornell scholarship letter

Postby violinst » Sun May 09, 2010 3:18 pm

GULC's letter also had pretty much the same thing.

I am fine with it, because it is reasonable. And if I do make enough, I will certainly donate.

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Antipodean
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Re: Weird line in Cornell scholarship letter

Postby Antipodean » Sun May 09, 2010 7:22 pm

Damn, but the sense of entitlement in this thread is strong. A successful alumnus has donated money to help your way through law school. Assuming you are in a position to do the same, you are absolutely under a moral obligation to pay the favour forward.

Sometimes I think that people on TLS get so hung up on the whole admissions game that they lose sight of the big picture of life. :?




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