Career Paths for JD/MBAs

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lawschoollll
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Career Paths for JD/MBAs

Postby lawschoollll » Tue May 04, 2010 11:09 am

Been thinking about doing a dual degree lately, and was wondering what kind of career path, especially early on, typical JD/MBAs follow (I'm thinking T10 or T5 MBA programs. I would guess that if you're at Wharton, Kellogg, HBS, SBS etc., and have a JD from the corresponding LS, you're probably just going to get your job through LS OCI anyway, rendering the business degree, at least early on, mostly insignificant (although I guess it could be a talking point/strength in the interview).

My question is, is there ever an added benefit to the MBA early on w/r/t the job search? Or does the usefulness usually manifest later on in the career if one wants to jump to business? Anybody getting a dual degree able to speak to this?

lawschoollll
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Re: Career Paths for JD/MBAs

Postby lawschoollll » Tue May 04, 2010 2:47 pm

Also, how do b-school grads usually get jobs; is there some kind of OCI-ish process for them too, or is it just connections?

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twert
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Re: Career Paths for JD/MBAs

Postby twert » Tue May 04, 2010 2:56 pm

i know a guy who did a joint program. he basically had to choose which career he was going to pursue and the other degree became useless

elmagic
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Re: Career Paths for JD/MBAs

Postby elmagic » Tue May 04, 2010 3:13 pm

If you can get into one of Wharton, HBS, Kellogg, Sloan or SBS, you probably shouldn't waste your time with law school unless you are going to YLS (assuming you have legit WE.)

mhernton
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Re: Career Paths for JD/MBAs

Postby mhernton » Tue May 04, 2010 3:31 pm

The "OCI" Process for MBAs is different than Law Schools.You need to have a lot more focus w/r/t your job search than Law School. If you plan on working for an Investment Bank, you need to have you internship applications ready basically by the time school starts. The applications close out usually by the end of October. Business Consulting is Right after that. If you don't have an internship for the summer in the industry you want, life gets extremely difficult in the job search. You need to look at what kind of jobs lawyers do in business. For the Banks and Energy its compliance, negotiation and a few others. Its difficult to come out of law school and go directly into those companies. A Lot of people work for the watch dog for two years, then move over to the company (SEC, FINRA, Moody's, EPA). You need to network with people in the industry you're interested in. To put things in perspective, you don't really have time to find yourself in a MBA program. Law school you can figure some things out. With a joint program, my guess is that you'll have to try to get an internship in the business you want, so you're OCI cycle will be very quick and violating some of the ABA's rules about contacting companies before the end of first Semester. I'm in a different boat, because I already the MBA going into Law School. Good Luck on what you figure out

lawschoollll
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Re: Career Paths for JD/MBAs

Postby lawschoollll » Tue May 04, 2010 3:35 pm

mhernton wrote:The "OCI" Process for MBAs is different than Law Schools.You need to have a lot more focus w/r/t your job search than Law School. If you plan on working for an Investment Bank, you need to have you internship applications ready basically by the time school starts. The applications close out usually by the end of October. Business Consulting is Right after that. If you don't have an internship for the summer in the industry you want, life gets extremely difficult in the job search. You need to look at what kind of jobs lawyers do in business. For the Banks and Energy its compliance, negotiation and a few others. Its difficult to come out of law school and go directly into those companies. A Lot of people work for the watch dog for two years, then move over to the company (SEC, FINRA, Moody's, EPA). You need to network with people in the industry you're interested in. To put things in perspective, you don't really have time to find yourself in a MBA program. Law school you can figure some things out. With a joint program, my guess is that you'll have to try to get an internship in the business you want, so you're OCI cycle will be very quick and violating some of the ABA's rules about contacting companies before the end of first Semester. I'm in a different boat, because I already the MBA going into Law School. Good Luck on what you figure out

Very helpful, thanks.

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ArthurEdens
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Re: Career Paths for JD/MBAs

Postby ArthurEdens » Tue May 04, 2010 3:38 pm

Don't waste your time or, more importantly, your money with the MBA if law is your goal. If you're working biglaw hours, how could you possibly put your MBA to use? A JD/MBA sounds good, but has little practical application.

imchuckbass58
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Re: Career Paths for JD/MBAs

Postby imchuckbass58 » Tue May 04, 2010 3:41 pm

lawschoollll wrote:Been thinking about doing a dual degree lately, and was wondering what kind of career path, especially early on, typical JD/MBAs follow (I'm thinking T10 or T5 MBA programs. I would guess that if you're at Wharton, Kellogg, HBS, SBS etc., and have a JD from the corresponding LS, you're probably just going to get your job through LS OCI anyway, rendering the business degree, at least early on, mostly insignificant (although I guess it could be a talking point/strength in the interview).

My question is, is there ever an added benefit to the MBA early on w/r/t the job search? Or does the usefulness usually manifest later on in the career if one wants to jump to business? Anybody getting a dual degree able to speak to this?


At CLS/CBS, first careers out of the JD/MBA program seems to be about 40% law, 30% consulting, 30% finance (IBD or buy side). There are a few people who go into VC, entrepreneurship, gov't, etc., but this is rare. This was skewed much higher towards business during the boom but now has swung somewhat back towards law because of the recession.

The basic MO used to be work your first summer at a firm, second summer at a bank or consulting firm, then decide what you want to do after graduation for your third summer. Now that 1L firm jobs are hard to come by, it seems to be more like get a normal 1L law job first summer (esp. gov't agencies like the FTC or SEC), get a firm job second summer, then decide what you want to do after school and do that third summer.

As far as whether the MBA helps immediately - the answer is it can, but not hugely. Management consulting firms get huge hard-ons for JD/MBAs from top schools, but it's not a guarantee. Similarly, many transactional practices tend to like JD/MBAs, but it won't make up for crap grades. So it gives you a small advantage in certain career paths, but the benefits are mostly 1) the optionality, and 2) greater perspective further down the road (i.e., if you're trying to go in house).

It's important to note also that a JD/MBA can be a handicap for certain areas. If you have a JD/MBA and want to do litigation people will question your commitment and wonder why you decided to spend another year and $50,000 doing something with minimal utility for adversarial practice.

imchuckbass58
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Re: Career Paths for JD/MBAs

Postby imchuckbass58 » Tue May 04, 2010 3:44 pm

ArthurEdens wrote:Don't waste your time or, more importantly, your money with the MBA if law is your goal. If you're working biglaw hours, how could you possibly put your MBA to use? A JD/MBA sounds good, but has little practical application.


I think this is true if you know you want to practice law for the rest of your life. But if 1) you are not sure, or 2) you plan on practicing for a while and then lateraling either to an in-house role or a business role (i.e., lots of bankruptcy lawyers end up doing restructuring work for investment banks or buy side distressed debt investing), it can really help.

lawschoollll
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Re: Career Paths for JD/MBAs

Postby lawschoollll » Tue May 04, 2010 3:56 pm

elmagic wrote:If you can get into one of Wharton, HBS, Kellogg, Sloan or SBS, you probably shouldn't waste your time with law school unless you are going to YLS (assuming you have legit WE.)

Is there a consensus as to when B-schools stop being worth it? I've always seen that beyond T5, they really don't offer much, but I'm not sure how accurate that is.

imchuckbass58
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Re: Career Paths for JD/MBAs

Postby imchuckbass58 » Tue May 04, 2010 4:03 pm

lawschoollll wrote:
elmagic wrote:If you can get into one of Wharton, HBS, Kellogg, Sloan or SBS, you probably shouldn't waste your time with law school unless you are going to YLS (assuming you have legit WE.)

Is there a consensus as to when B-schools stop being worth it? I've always seen that beyond T5, they really don't offer much, but I'm not sure how accurate that is.


1) There is no consensus

2) Even if there were a consensus, it would not be "T5." The concept of a T5 does not really exist in the business school world.

The basic break down of business school tiers is:

Harvard/Stanford
Wharton
MIT Sloan/Kellogg/Columbia/Chicago Booth (here and above, collectively "M7")
Haas/Tuck/NYU/Yale
Everything else

People are going to start yelling and saying "but MIT and Kellogg are ranked above Wharton in USNews," but the USNews rankings of business schools do not really reflect reality. There are many more respected ranking systems (FT, Businessweek, etc.), and the above roughly ranks generalized job prospects (it differs for specific industries - Columbia and Booth will vastly outplace Kellogg in finance, but Haas probably outplaces Columbia or Chicago in VC/tech). This reflects what most people in business will tell you, as well as rough recruiting preferences for companies I've worked for.

It's pretty well acknowledged that HSW are worth going to. Most people who aren't filthy elitists would say the next tier down is worth it too. After that, it gets iffy.

elmagic
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Re: Career Paths for JD/MBAs

Postby elmagic » Tue May 04, 2010 6:24 pm

lawschoollll wrote:
elmagic wrote:If you can get into one of Wharton, HBS, Kellogg, Sloan or SBS, you probably shouldn't waste your time with law school unless you are going to YLS (assuming you have legit WE.)

Is there a consensus as to when B-schools stop being worth it? I've always seen that beyond T5, they really don't offer much, but I'm not sure how accurate that is.


I'd also agree that there isn't a consensus, but the further down you go, the more your job prospects diminish in comparison to law schools.

It depends a lot on your goals but if you are looking at consulting or banking I'd say:

HBS/Wharton/SBS/YLS>Kellogg/Sloan/HLS




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