Yeshiva University....Unequivocally anti-gay...Cardozo....??

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Tautology
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Re: Yeshiva University....Unequivocally anti-gay...Cardozo....??

Postby Tautology » Mon May 03, 2010 11:04 pm

hannah87 wrote:I agree that the wording here is unnecessarily strong and can be interpreted as hateful, but (as much as I disagree with discriminating against homosexuals) I still understand the school's desire to adhere to halacha and don't find it unfair for the university president to remind his students of the school's stance on the issue.


To be clear, I'm not commenting on whether President Joel's comments are "fair," or "legal" for that matter. I care that they are discriminatory, and I condemn them. If his beliefs are grounded in his religion, I condemn his religion. This is entirely separate from the question of whether people have, or should have, a right to their religious beliefs, or a right to create a private institution that discriminates because of them.

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romothesavior
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Re: Yeshiva University....Unequivocally anti-gay...Cardozo....??

Postby romothesavior » Mon May 03, 2010 11:05 pm

bigben wrote:I am shocked, SHOCKED, to hear that this person expressed the tenets of their religion at this religious university.

We should learn something from England--to the stockades with this man!

http://volokh.com/2010/05/02/street-pre ... -is-a-sin/


As long as hate is shrouded in religion its okay, right bigben?

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romothesavior
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Re: Yeshiva University....Unequivocally anti-gay...Cardozo....??

Postby romothesavior » Mon May 03, 2010 11:06 pm

Tautology wrote:
hannah87 wrote:I agree that the wording here is unnecessarily strong and can be interpreted as hateful, but (as much as I disagree with discriminating against homosexuals) I still understand the school's desire to adhere to halacha and don't find it unfair for the university president to remind his students of the school's stance on the issue.


To be clear, I'm not commenting on whether President Joel's comments are "fair," or "legal" for that matter. I care that they are discriminatory, and I condemn them. If his beliefs are grounded in his religion, I condemn his religion. This is entirely separate from the question of whether people have, or should have, a right to their religious beliefs, or a right to create a private institution that discriminates because of them.


+ a zillion

cubswin
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Re: Yeshiva University....Unequivocally anti-gay...Cardozo....??

Postby cubswin » Mon May 03, 2010 11:07 pm

Tautology wrote:
hannah87 wrote:I agree that the wording here is unnecessarily strong and can be interpreted as hateful, but (as much as I disagree with discriminating against homosexuals) I still understand the school's desire to adhere to halacha and don't find it unfair for the university president to remind his students of the school's stance on the issue.


To be clear, I'm not commenting on whether President Joel's comments are "fair," or "legal" for that matter. I care that they are discriminatory, and I condemn them. If his beliefs are grounded in his religion, I condemn his religion. This is entirely separate from the question of whether people have, or should have, a right to their religious beliefs, or a right to create a private institution that discriminates because of them.


Well, condemn his religious beliefs then. But I think it's a bit ridiculous to suggest that we shouldn't allow people to have conservative religious beliefs just because they are unfair to homosexuals.

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hannah87
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Re: Yeshiva University....Unequivocally anti-gay...Cardozo....??

Postby hannah87 » Mon May 03, 2010 11:08 pm

Tautology wrote:
hannah87 wrote:I agree that the wording here is unnecessarily strong and can be interpreted as hateful, but (as much as I disagree with discriminating against homosexuals) I still understand the school's desire to adhere to halacha and don't find it unfair for the university president to remind his students of the school's stance on the issue.


To be clear, I'm not commenting on whether President Joel's comments are "fair," or "legal" for that matter. I care that they are discriminatory, and I condemn them. If his beliefs are grounded in his religion, I condemn his religion. This is entirely separate from the question of whether people have, or should have, a right to their religious beliefs, or a right to create a private institution that discriminates because of them.


well-put.

Tautology
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Re: Yeshiva University....Unequivocally anti-gay...Cardozo....??

Postby Tautology » Mon May 03, 2010 11:11 pm

cubswin wrote:Well, condemn his religious beliefs then. But I think it's a bit ridiculous to suggest that we shouldn't allow people to have conservative religious beliefs just because they are unfair to homosexuals.


As soon as I see someone suggest that, I will condemn them as well.

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newyorker88
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Re: Cardozo....Unequivocally anti-gay

Postby newyorker88 » Mon May 03, 2010 11:12 pm

chicoalto0649 wrote:
Aeroplane wrote:My understanding is that the panel was put on by students of the undergrad school which is religious, and not the law school which is secular. The head of the law school issued a separate statement.


In light of recent events, we want to reiterate the absolute prohibition of homosexual relationships according to Jewish law.


This kind of says alot...imagine a school putting a prohibition on interracial relationships....
..


Does the school have a policy putting a prohibition on homosexual relationships? Because that's not what the article says at all.

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Mr. Matlock
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Re: Yeshiva University....Unequivocally anti-gay...Cardozo....??

Postby Mr. Matlock » Mon May 03, 2010 11:17 pm

Well, I guess they're allowed to believe what they will. In defense of my gay brothers and sisters, I say we eat ham sandwiches and BLT in protest!!

Seriously, fuck them. Religion has become very TTT to me these last few years.

--ImageRemoved--
--ImageRemoved--
Last edited by Mr. Matlock on Mon May 03, 2010 11:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

bigben
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Re: Yeshiva University....Unequivocally anti-gay...Cardozo....??

Postby bigben » Mon May 03, 2010 11:18 pm

romothesavior wrote:
bigben wrote:I am shocked, SHOCKED, to hear that this person expressed the tenets of their religion at this religious university.

We should learn something from England--to the stockades with this man!

http://volokh.com/2010/05/02/street-pre ... -is-a-sin/


As long as hate is shrouded in religion its okay, right bigben?


As long as you describe something as "hate," it's condemnable, right?

Is it "okay" ? Maybe not, whatever that means. I just want to make sure it stays LEGAL. As we see in the English motherland, apparently that is not a foregone conclusion.

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MrOrange
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Re: Yeshiva University....Unequivocally anti-gay...Cardozo....??

Postby MrOrange » Mon May 03, 2010 11:20 pm

If religious conservatives are correct in what they think/practice, does anyone else get the feeling that their God is the youngest of two or more children? You know, the "special" one who eats play doh while His elder siblings are off creating less hateful, non-retarded progeny?

I'm guessing people like those who run Yeshiva are the direct result of God's complete inability to color inside the lines.

Oh, and f--- them.

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Mr. Matlock
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Re: Yeshiva University....Unequivocally anti-gay...Cardozo....??

Postby Mr. Matlock » Mon May 03, 2010 11:22 pm

MrOrange wrote:If religious conservatives are correct in what they think/practice, does anyone else get the feeling that their God is the youngest of two or more children? You know, the "special" one who eats play doh while His elder siblings are off creating less hateful, non-retarded progeny?

I'm guessing people like those who run Yeshiva are the direct result of God's complete inability to color inside the lines.

Oh, and f--- them.

:lol: Hey Orange.

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MrOrange
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Re: Yeshiva University....Unequivocally anti-gay...Cardozo....??

Postby MrOrange » Mon May 03, 2010 11:24 pm

Mr. Matlock wrote: :lol: Hey Orange.

Heh...how goes it, sir?

bigben
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Re: Yeshiva University....Unequivocally anti-gay...Cardozo....??

Postby bigben » Mon May 03, 2010 11:25 pm

MrOrange wrote:If religious conservatives are correct in what they think/practice, does anyone else get the feeling that their God is the youngest of two or more children? You know, the "special" one who eats play doh while His elder siblings are off creating less hateful, non-retarded progeny?


lol.

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romothesavior
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Re: Yeshiva University....Unequivocally anti-gay...Cardozo....??

Postby romothesavior » Mon May 03, 2010 11:26 pm

bigben wrote:
romothesavior wrote:
bigben wrote:I am shocked, SHOCKED, to hear that this person expressed the tenets of their religion at this religious university.

We should learn something from England--to the stockades with this man!

http://volokh.com/2010/05/02/street-pre ... -is-a-sin/


As long as hate is shrouded in religion its okay, right bigben?


As long as you describe something as "hate," it's condemnable, right?

Is it "okay" ? Maybe not, whatever that means. I just want to make sure it stays LEGAL. As we see in the English motherland, apparently that is not a foregone conclusion.


No one has even approached a position saying this shouldn't be legal. I even said pretty explicitly that we should recnognize their right to have these policies if they want them. I don't want to live in a world where "open-mindedness" (whatever that means) is imposed by law either.

I just condemn their position and their religion. And I am fully entitled to do so.

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romothesavior
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Re: Yeshiva University....Unequivocally anti-gay...Cardozo....??

Postby romothesavior » Mon May 03, 2010 11:26 pm

MrOrange wrote:If religious conservatives are correct in what they think/practice, does anyone else get the feeling that their God is the youngest of two or more children? You know, the "special" one who eats play doh while His elder siblings are off creating less hateful, non-retarded progeny?

I'm guessing people like those who run Yeshiva are the direct result of God's complete inability to color inside the lines.

Oh, and f--- them.


Haha great post.

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Mr. Matlock
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Re: Yeshiva University....Unequivocally anti-gay...Cardozo....??

Postby Mr. Matlock » Mon May 03, 2010 11:29 pm

MrOrange wrote:
Mr. Matlock wrote: :lol: Hey Orange.

Heh...how goes it, sir?

Sorry.... perhaps it's my new tar.

Image

You haven't been gone that long now, have you? :D

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MrOrange
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Re: Yeshiva University....Unequivocally anti-gay...Cardozo....??

Postby MrOrange » Mon May 03, 2010 11:30 pm

Mr. Matlock wrote:
MrOrange wrote:
Mr. Matlock wrote: :lol: Hey Orange.

Heh...how goes it, sir?

Sorry.... perhaps it's my new tar.

Image

You haven't been gone that long now, have you? :D

Dude, I remember - I was just asking how're things :P

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Mr. Matlock
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Re: Yeshiva University....Unequivocally anti-gay...Cardozo....??

Postby Mr. Matlock » Mon May 03, 2010 11:34 pm

MrOrange wrote:Dude, I remember - I was just asking how're things :P

Ugh... my game is fading. BUT, hanging in there none the less. Are you about finished for the semester?

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MrOrange
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Re: Yeshiva University....Unequivocally anti-gay...Cardozo....??

Postby MrOrange » Mon May 03, 2010 11:36 pm

Mr. Matlock wrote:
MrOrange wrote:Dude, I remember - I was just asking how're things :P

Ugh... my game is fading. BUT, hanging in there none the less. Are you about finished for the semester?

Actually finished last Thursday. This semester's series of tests was a bitch. Right now I'm still recovering from the subsequent bender.

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gbpackerbacker
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Re: Yeshiva University....Unequivocally anti-gay...Cardozo....??

Postby gbpackerbacker » Mon May 03, 2010 11:43 pm

This is not representative at all of American Jews. American Jews are overwhelmingly progressive. It is sad that some people could feel that way towards any group. I just wanted to note that the views held by Cardozo-Yeshiva are not shared but by a small minority of American Jews...

dakatz
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Re: Yeshiva University....Unequivocally anti-gay...Cardozo....??

Postby dakatz » Mon May 03, 2010 11:44 pm

gbpackerbacker wrote:This is not representative at all of American Jews. American Jews are overwhelmingly progressive. It is sad that some people could feel that way towards any group. I just wanted to note that the views held by Cardozo-Yeshiva are not shared but by a small minority of American Jews...


That was my first thought as well. It is a shame that such a school represents itself as a religions institution and gives the religion itself a bad name.

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ZXCVBNM
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Re: Yeshiva University....Unequivocally anti-gay...Cardozo....??

Postby ZXCVBNM » Mon May 03, 2010 11:48 pm

MrOrange wrote:If religious conservatives are correct in what they think/practice, does anyone else get the feeling that their God is the youngest of two or more children? You know, the "special" one who eats play doh while His elder siblings are off creating less hateful, non-retarded progeny?

I'm guessing people like those who run Yeshiva are the direct result of God's complete inability to color inside the lines.

Oh, and f--- them.


And the religious ones are the haters right? Not taking sides, just saying that throwing hate back at them doesn't exactly make your position stronger. Does Richard Joel say to hate homosexuals? No, he is condeming a behavior...not homosexuals themselves. While you on the other hand...
Last edited by ZXCVBNM on Mon May 03, 2010 11:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Tautology
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Re: Yeshiva University....Unequivocally anti-gay...Cardozo....??

Postby Tautology » Mon May 03, 2010 11:48 pm

bigben wrote:
romothesavior wrote:
bigben wrote:I am shocked, SHOCKED, to hear that this person expressed the tenets of their religion at this religious university.

We should learn something from England--to the stockades with this man!

http://volokh.com/2010/05/02/street-pre ... -is-a-sin/


As long as hate is shrouded in religion its okay, right bigben?


As long as you describe something as "hate," it's condemnable, right?

Is it "okay" ? Maybe not, whatever that means. I just want to make sure it stays LEGAL. As we see in the English motherland, apparently that is not a foregone conclusion.


It is not legal to discriminate based on sexual orientation, even for a private university.

Levin vs. Yeshiva

Again, this is an issue separate from whether it is legal to make the statement President Joel made (of course it is legal).

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newyorker88
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Re: Yeshiva University....Unequivocally anti-gay...Cardozo....??

Postby newyorker88 » Mon May 03, 2010 11:49 pm

Tautology wrote:
bigben wrote:
romothesavior wrote:
bigben wrote:I am shocked, SHOCKED, to hear that this person expressed the tenets of their religion at this religious university.

We should learn something from England--to the stockades with this man!

http://volokh.com/2010/05/02/street-pre ... -is-a-sin/


As long as hate is shrouded in religion its okay, right bigben?


As long as you describe something as "hate," it's condemnable, right?

Is it "okay" ? Maybe not, whatever that means. I just want to make sure it stays LEGAL. As we see in the English motherland, apparently that is not a foregone conclusion.


It is not legal to discriminate based on sexual orientation, even for a private university.

.


How are they discriminating?

Tautology
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Re: Yeshiva University....Unequivocally anti-gay...Cardozo....??

Postby Tautology » Mon May 03, 2010 11:58 pm

newyorker88 wrote:
How are they discriminating?


They are not, and I was the first in this thread to point that out. My post was really targeted at the sentiment expressed on the first page (where there was confusion about what the school was actually doing) by bernie shmegma. I should not have directed my statement at who I did.


bernie shmegma wrote:Firstly, Yeshiva is a private institution separate from the state. The civil rights lingo is great and all for practical purposes as well trying to make a point, but careful how far you think its legitimacy goes when it comes to such institutions. Secondly, it is a private institution that practices and exercises its freedom of religion, including a heritage of natural rights. Thirdly, the law school is very different from the undergrad institution.




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