JD/MBA is the backdoor way to law school.

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nice-and-cool
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JD/MBA is the backdoor way to law school.

Postby nice-and-cool » Sun May 02, 2010 1:20 am

Especially, for NU.

I know of a person who scored in the 150s on the LSAT (you can say he's failed at it.) and took the GMAT, scoring a low 700s, which is equivalent to prob 160-something on the LSAT. He applied to NU/Kellogg and got accepted. Considering you gotta have something like 170 or 171 to get into NU law, you can say this is a bargain and truly a backdoor way to the top-tired law school.

Consider it.

I scored much higher on the GMAT but didn't give it a try because I thought it would be ridiculous and unrealistic if I got into law school only with a GMAT score. Sometimes ridiculous things happen in the world. Now I realized.

HITeacher2
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Re: JD/MBA is the backdoor way to law school.

Postby HITeacher2 » Sun May 02, 2010 1:52 am

The notion that you can backdoor into law school through b-school is kinda silly for anybody without years of work experience. For undergrads, getting into a good b-school (a much less numbers-focused admissions process) is considerably harder than getting into a law school. Even for your friend, getting into Kellogg (NU's school of business) is no easy accomplishment as the middle 80% of Kellogg students has 3-7 years of work experience -a pretty reasonable soft. And if your friend did get into Kellogg, he'd have little reason to go to law school (unless he had a passion for law) as business prospects out of Kellogg are as good as (if not better than) NU Law.

PS: It's really hard to compare the GMAT to the LSAT, but if you want a rough way to find GMAT/LSAT equivalent scores, drop the zero off the end of the GMAT score and add a 1.

600 GMAT > 160 LSAT
660 GMAT > 166 LSAT
700 GMAT > 170 LSAT
790 GMAT > 179 LSAT

A "low 700s" GMAT is roughly the same as a low 170s LSAT, certainly high enough to get into NU.

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Mrs. Jack Donaghy
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Re: JD/MBA is the backdoor way to law school.

Postby Mrs. Jack Donaghy » Sun May 02, 2010 2:00 am

Your friend's admission may be an outlier.

ughOSU
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Re: JD/MBA is the backdoor way to law school.

Postby ughOSU » Mon May 03, 2010 10:57 am

IIRC, the kellogg/NU JD/MBA admissions only requires a GMAT. And the application is different than the JD app, and I believe the admissions process is done through the business school. Basically, I don't know if anyone at NU law ever saw his LSAT score, and if they did I don't know if they considered it.

So if you're good at GMAT (math, grammar, and the easy LR/RC sections of the LSAT) and want to practice law, you're right, he may have found a solid backdoor into a top law school (couple years WE + high GMAT).

e: just fyi, none of this is typical of JD/MBA programs generally. I think NU is the only one that doesn't require both tests (although for some reason I'm thinking Duke might not either).

cavebat2000
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Re: JD/MBA is the backdoor way to law school.

Postby cavebat2000 » Mon May 03, 2010 11:04 am

Mrs. Jack Donaghy wrote:Your friend's admission may be an outlier.


pshhh, one data point is all we need to accurately predict admissions!

/sarcasm ;)

itsmytime10
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Re: JD/MBA is the backdoor way to law school.

Postby itsmytime10 » Mon May 03, 2010 11:06 am

nice-and-cool wrote:Especially, for NU.

I know of a person who scored in the 150s on the LSAT (you can say he's failed at it.) and took the GMAT, scoring a low 700s, which is equivalent to prob 160-something on the LSAT. He applied to NU/Kellogg and got accepted. Considering you gotta have something like 170 or 171 to get into NU law, you can say this is a bargain and truly a backdoor way to the top-tired law school.

Consider it.

I scored much higher on the GMAT but didn't give it a try because I thought it would be ridiculous and unrealistic if I got into law school only with a GMAT score. Sometimes ridiculous things happen in the world. Now I realized.


NU does not require the LSAT for JD/MBA.

noname4
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Re: JD/MBA is the backdoor way to law school.

Postby noname4 » Mon May 03, 2010 11:09 am

In what way is it difficult to compare performance on the LSAT and GMAT? Just look at percentile grids....

A 700 on the GMAT is the 89th percentile... the 89th percentile on the LSAT is 163. The above calculus of "removing a zero and adding a 1" is wrong.

imchuckbass58
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Re: JD/MBA is the backdoor way to law school.

Postby imchuckbass58 » Mon May 03, 2010 11:13 am

noname4 wrote:In what way is it difficult to compare performance on the LSAT and GMAT? Just look at percentile grids....

A 700 on the GMAT is the 89th percentile... the 89th percentile on the LSAT is 163. The above calculus of "removing a zero and adding a 1" is wrong.


This is correct. 99th percentile on the GMAT is roughly 760, whereas 99th percentile on the LSAT is 173.

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TheBigMediocre
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Re: JD/MBA is the backdoor way to law school.

Postby TheBigMediocre » Mon May 03, 2010 11:14 am

Isn't it more common to use the law program as a backdoor into the MBA program? If you kicked ass at UPenn during 1L and then applied, wouldn't you have a decent shot at Wharton?

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underachiever
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Re: JD/MBA is the backdoor way to law school.

Postby underachiever » Mon May 03, 2010 11:19 am

You can always backdoor your way into a schools less prestigious school, though a more prestigious school. Even more so now, b/c schools are pushing dual degrees so hard. You just need different skill attributes for different schools.
Backdoor to Penn or Northwestern Law = work experience+high GMA and go via MBA first.
Want a good MBA but have no experience/suck at GMAT go to UVA law (they look at LSAT to get into MBA at Darden)
....most other Masters degrees are a joke and if you get into either the MBA or Law school you can pick one up if ur willing to pay.

ughOSU
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Re: JD/MBA is the backdoor way to law school.

Postby ughOSU » Mon May 03, 2010 11:25 am

TheBigMediocre wrote:Isn't it more common to use the law program as a backdoor into the MBA program? If you kicked ass at UPenn during 1L and then applied, wouldn't you have a decent shot at Wharton?

Probably not a good one without WE. b-school admissions are more qualitative than law school admissions, which is why the top tier of b-schools (HSW) are at times ranked below schools that try to game the rankings (like Booth, Kellogg, Sloan). But they are still regarded as superior schools. HSW care about WE above all else. H and S have gotten the rep of being a bit more forgiving for applicants without WE, but it's a safe bet that those applicants are outliers with strong leadership credentials in UG. Wharton, however, is notoriously tough on applicants without WE.

09042014
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Re: JD/MBA is the backdoor way to law school.

Postby 09042014 » Mon May 03, 2010 11:29 am

You can also apply to the AJD and NU without taking the LSAT, and only the GMAT.

ughOSU
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Re: JD/MBA is the backdoor way to law school.

Postby ughOSU » Mon May 03, 2010 11:37 am

Desert Fox wrote:You can also apply to the AJD and NU without taking the LSAT, and only the GMAT.

the accelerated JD program? really? interesting.

09042014
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Re: JD/MBA is the backdoor way to law school.

Postby 09042014 » Mon May 03, 2010 11:38 am

ughOSU wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:You can also apply to the AJD and NU without taking the LSAT, and only the GMAT.

the accelerated JD program? really? interesting.


I'm guessing you need an LDSAC GPA of 3.75+ to get in without an LSAT though.

lawschoollll
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Re: JD/MBA is the backdoor way to law school.

Postby lawschoollll » Mon May 03, 2010 11:55 am

Can you backdoor into Wharton/Kellogg just by doing well 1L and applying for the dual degree?

imchuckbass58
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Re: JD/MBA is the backdoor way to law school.

Postby imchuckbass58 » Mon May 03, 2010 12:34 pm

underachiever wrote:You can always backdoor your way into a schools less prestigious school, though a more prestigious school.
....most other Masters degrees are a joke and if you get into either the MBA or Law school you can pick one up if ur willing to pay.


lawschoollll wrote:Can you backdoor into Wharton/Kellogg just by doing well 1L and applying for the dual degree?


No, this is absolutely wrong, at least in my experience (I'm a JD/MBA) and with regard to good schools.

I really think people overestimate the "backdoor effect." It certainly is easier to apply to the JD/MBA if you are already at the law school, but the effect is not as marked as some people make it out to be. It's not merely a matter of doin well 1L year and applying. There might be some leeway to having 2 years of work experience instead of 4 or 5, but you still have demonstrate similar work credentials, similar GMAT scores, and similarly polished essays as would a normal applicant.

Anecdotally, at Columbia (which is arguably one of those schools where the law school is "stronger" than the b school) about 8-10 1Ls and 2Ls apply every year and only 2-3 get admitted. Overwhelmingly these are people with relevant work experience (management consulting, banking, etc) and high GMAT scores. The 2Ls who applied this year also do not seem to be slouches - most of the ones I know who got rejected had good firm jobs for the summer, so it wasn't their grades holding them back.

B-schools care a lot about work experience and expressing a clear rationale for the joint degree in your essays. A business school is perfectly happy to reject a 3.9/780 if they write crap essays, and the same goes for people with stellar law school grades. Similar dynamic if you can't show how your work experience will be valuable (or why you will contribute to the learning environment without work experience).

You will get some leeway on length of work experience - the b school understands you can't work for 5 years then spend 4 more years getting a degree. Similarly, there are no yield concerns since you're already at the law school. But it's not like you can just knock out a 3.6 1L year and expect them to let you right in.

bdubs
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Re: JD/MBA is the backdoor way to law school.

Postby bdubs » Thu Oct 14, 2010 5:54 pm

Mrs. Jack Donaghy wrote:Your friend's admission may be an outlier.


TITCR. 246 applicants, 36 admits (14.6% acceptance rate). It is arguably harder to get into the JD/MBA program than it is to get into the traditional NU Law program (18.3% acceptance rate).

http://www.law.northwestern.edu/admissi ... ofile.html

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bk1
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Re: JD/MBA is the backdoor way to law school.

Postby bk1 » Thu Oct 14, 2010 6:02 pm

bdubs wrote:TITCR. 246 applicants, 36 admits (14.6% acceptance rate). It is arguably harder to get into the JD/MBA program than it is to get into the traditional NU Law program (18.3% acceptance rate).

http://www.law.northwestern.edu/admissi ... ofile.html


Thanks for resurrecting this thread for this very important update.

bdubs
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Re: JD/MBA is the backdoor way to law school.

Postby bdubs » Thu Oct 14, 2010 6:05 pm

bk1 wrote:
bdubs wrote:TITCR. 246 applicants, 36 admits (14.6% acceptance rate). It is arguably harder to get into the JD/MBA program than it is to get into the traditional NU Law program (18.3% acceptance rate).

http://www.law.northwestern.edu/admissi ... ofile.html


Thanks for resurrecting this thread for this very important update.


Round 1 applications are due today. I was browsing around.

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Patriot1208
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Re: JD/MBA is the backdoor way to law school.

Postby Patriot1208 » Thu Oct 14, 2010 6:13 pm

I am really liking all he "backdoor" talk ITT

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Grizz
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Re: JD/MBA is the backdoor way to law school.

Postby Grizz » Thu Oct 14, 2010 6:16 pm

Patriot1208 wrote:I am really liking all he "backdoor" talk ITT


So glad someone said this.

Kafka
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Re: JD/MBA is the backdoor way to law school.

Postby Kafka » Thu Oct 14, 2010 7:10 pm

Kellogg > NW Law

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hellojd
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Re: JD/MBA is the backdoor way to law school.

Postby hellojd » Fri Oct 15, 2010 5:42 am

Kafka wrote:Kellogg > NW Law


This. If someone has gotten into Kellogg, NU law is just a teeny tiny cherry on top of a huge sundae.

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Patriot1208
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Re: JD/MBA is the backdoor way to law school.

Postby Patriot1208 » Fri Oct 15, 2010 9:58 am

hellojd wrote:
Kafka wrote:Kellogg > NW Law


This. If someone has gotten into Kellogg, NU law is just a teeny tiny cherry on top of a huge sundae.


well that is a huge exaggeration.

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hellojd
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Re: JD/MBA is the backdoor way to law school.

Postby hellojd » Fri Oct 15, 2010 10:43 am

Patriot1208 wrote:
hellojd wrote:
Kafka wrote:Kellogg > NW Law


This. If someone has gotten into Kellogg, NU law is just a teeny tiny cherry on top of a huge sundae.


well that is a huge exaggeration.


I disagree :D

Kellogg is world renowned, and opens doors at ANY BB bank or consultancy (even though they're primarily known for marketing).

Can you say the same for NU law (assuming you're not top 10%, which is a safe assumption 90% of the time)?

Not trying to knock NU law by any means, it's a great school, but there's a clear winner when you compare the two grad schools. All things equal, the Kellogg grad is in a much better position than the NU law grad.
Last edited by hellojd on Fri Oct 15, 2010 10:45 am, edited 1 time in total.




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