Could I be considered URM???

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Xptboy
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Could I be considered URM???

Postby Xptboy » Wed Apr 28, 2010 10:40 pm

My dad is Belgian, my mom is S.Korean.
When I check the boxes I say that I am ''multiracial'', if they don't have it, I say I am ''white''
I am an international student studying UG in college

Does any of this have any impact when applying to law schools???

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romothesavior
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Re: Could I be considered URM???

Postby romothesavior » Wed Apr 28, 2010 10:41 pm

Xptboy wrote:My dad is Belgian, my mom is S.Korean.
When I check the boxes I say that I am ''multiracial'', if they don't have it, I say I am ''white''
I am an international student studying UG in college

Does any of this have any impact when applying to law schools???


1. Learn to use the search function: http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=35568
2. No. If anything, you are an overrepresented minority. Asian people do not get a URM bump, and some would argue they actually are hurt by affirmative action.

Xptboy
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Re: Could I be considered URM???

Postby Xptboy » Wed Apr 28, 2010 10:43 pm

cool thx

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You Gotta Have Faith
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Re: Could I be considered URM???

Postby You Gotta Have Faith » Wed Apr 28, 2010 10:45 pm

The only 3 categories that benefit from URM status are (1) Blacks/African-Americans, (2) Hispanics (some more than others... Cubans get the least benefit), and (3) Native-Americans (you need a tribal identification).

South Koreans certainly don't get any benefit from URM status. You can mostly lump almost all Asians into the "White" category when it comes to URM purposes for admissions. Ditto to Belgians. Sorry... URM status is created to benefit the three categories aforementioned.

The moment any/all of those groups become roughly representative of the population, they will no longer be considered URM (Asians were in this category a few decades ago). But until that time...

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Unemployed
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Re: Could I be considered URM???

Postby Unemployed » Wed Apr 28, 2010 10:47 pm

You Gotta Have Faith wrote:The only 3 categories that benefit from URM status are (1) Blacks/African-Americans, (2) Hispanics (some more than others... Cubans get the least benefit), and (3) Native-Americans (you need a tribal identification).

South Koreans certainly don't get any benefit from URM status. You can mostly lump almost all Asians into the "White" category when it comes to URM purposes for admissions. Ditto to Belgians. Sorry... URM status is created to benefit the three categories aforementioned.

The moment any/all of those groups become roughly representative of the population, they will no longer be considered URM (Asians were in this category a few decades ago). But until that time...


But...but... race is a social construct!!

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vanwinkle
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Re: Could I be considered URM???

Postby vanwinkle » Wed Apr 28, 2010 11:03 pm

You Gotta Have Faith wrote:The only 3 categories that benefit from URM status are (1) Blacks/African-Americans, (2) Hispanics (some more than others... Cubans get the least benefit), and (3) Native-Americans (you need a tribal identification).

Bolded is incorrect. For Hispanics, the categories that get the biggest benefit are Mexican-Americans and Puerto Ricans. Every other nationality gets a smaller benefit, or none at all, from what I've been able to tell.

However, the overall gist of it (URM = Black, MX or PR Hispanic, or Native American, and that's it) is correct.
Last edited by vanwinkle on Wed Apr 28, 2010 11:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

thischarmingman
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Re: Could I be considered URM???

Postby thischarmingman » Wed Apr 28, 2010 11:03 pm

You Gotta Have Faith wrote:The only 3 categories that benefit from URM status are (1) Blacks/African-Americans, (2) Hispanics (some more than others... Cubans get the least benefit), and (3) Native-Americans (you need a tribal identification).

South Koreans certainly don't get any benefit from URM status. You can mostly lump almost all Asians into the "White" category when it comes to URM purposes for admissions. Ditto to Belgians. Sorry... URM status is created to benefit the three categories aforementioned.

The moment any/all of those groups become roughly representative of the population, they will no longer be considered URM (Asians were in this category a few decades ago). But until that time...


interesting. where did you get that info about cubans?

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dlac
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Re: Could I be considered URM???

Postby dlac » Thu Apr 29, 2010 12:19 am

Koreans definitely get negative bumps at Boalt. I know this for a fact...

Probably best to leave that little tidbit out entirely.

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You Gotta Have Faith
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Re: Could I be considered URM???

Postby You Gotta Have Faith » Thu Apr 29, 2010 1:05 am

vanwinkle wrote:
You Gotta Have Faith wrote:The only 3 categories that benefit from URM status are (1) Blacks/African-Americans, (2) Hispanics (some more than others... Cubans get the least benefit), and (3) Native-Americans (you need a tribal identification).

Bolded is incorrect. For Hispanics, the categories that get the biggest benefit are Mexican-Americans and Puerto Ricans. Every other nationality gets a smaller benefit, or none at all, from what I've been able to tell.

However, the overall gist of it (URM = Black, MX or PR Hispanic, or Native American, and that's it) is correct.


1) I'm curious to know which Hispanic-related nationalities get no boost at all in your opinion. I was under the impression that all of them got *some* degree of boost.

2) While I know that Puerto Ricans and Mexicans are the main "beneficiaries" so to speak... I was under the impression that along the continuum, Cubans got the least help. That may be wrong... I dunno, nor do I really care too much, haha.

3) In any case, I'm more under the impression that this fluctuates somewhat from school to school. As one poster pointed out, at Berkeley, there's a different set of priorities. But working in the other direction, I'm pretty sure that some schools are more lacking in one type of URM than another. Thus, their needs/preferences vary, despite the fact that 2 or 3 types of URM would be considered *roughly* equal.

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flyingpanda
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Re: Could I be considered URM???

Postby flyingpanda » Thu Apr 29, 2010 1:18 am

People are convinced that being Asian got me a URM bump for UVA. Discuss.

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You Gotta Have Faith
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Re: Could I be considered URM???

Postby You Gotta Have Faith » Thu Apr 29, 2010 1:23 am

aznflyingpanda wrote:People are convinced that being Asian got me a URM bump for UVA. Discuss.




OP, sorry we've hijacked your thread, haha.

flyingpanda... perhaps Trujillo just really liked you. I mean, he's kind of Asian.

But other than that, no clue dude...
Last edited by You Gotta Have Faith on Thu Apr 29, 2010 1:26 am, edited 1 time in total.

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mpasi
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Re: Could I be considered URM???

Postby mpasi » Thu Apr 29, 2010 1:25 am

Why does ethnicity/nationality matter? The race of the applicant should be about it, right? Hispanic is Hispanic, no matter what ethnic group you're in. The apps don't go that far into detail, do they?

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vanwinkle
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Re: Could I be considered URM???

Postby vanwinkle » Thu Apr 29, 2010 1:28 am

You Gotta Have Faith wrote:1) I'm curious to know which Hispanic-related nationalities get no boost at all in your opinion. I was under the impression that all of them got *some* degree of boost.

Which get no boost at all, or at least a smaller boost? Any that aren't Mexican or Puerto Rican. However, whether that's true varies - some schools don't even seem to ask what kind of Hispanic you are, so it's hard to imagine how exactly they'd apply a boost more to some than others.

In general, though, the "Mexican or Puerto Rican" thing comes from part of Grutter v. Bollinger, the famous affirmative action case. That affirmative action plan was upheld because it was based on a compelling interest and was as narrowly tailored as possible, and in one part of the description it's explained that the compelling interest is maintaining the representation of Black, Mexican, Puerto Rican, and Native American students, all of which their studies indicate would fall without AA. Because of the "narrowly tailored" aspect of strict scrutiny in race jurisprudence, anything that isn't as narrowly tailored as possible with regard to race classifications can potentially be struck down. Schools know that focusing on Mexicans or Puerto Ricans for the sake of maintaining their enrollment is narrowly tailored enough. Some appear to be following that narrowly, from what I've seen, and only applying noticeable boosts to those kinds of Hispanics. Others don't seem to even try to differentiate between different nationalities of Hispanics at all.

So to answer your question, there is no clear simple answer because it depends on how narrowly schools construe their AA program. However, Grutter and strict scrutiny provide strong incentive for them to construe it as narrowly as possible in order for it to remain legal, which is motive for many to stick to just Mexicans and Puerto Ricans.

You Gotta Have Faith wrote:2) While I know that Puerto Ricans and Mexicans are the main "beneficiaries" so to speak... I was under the impression that along the continuum, Cubans got the least help. That may be wrong... I dunno, nor do I really care too much, haha.

See above. The grouping seems to be Mexicans and Puerto Ricans, and then everyone else (sometimes referred to as "other" Hispanics because of the "other" checkbox they might encounter). Schools know for sure it's okay to give boosts to Mexicans and Puerto Ricans under a Grutter-type admissions system. They're not as certain about other Hispanics. Some will give boosts to other Hispanics and some won't. From what I've personally observed it seems like many don't. I say this as someone who's been keeping an eye on it with a personal interest, since I'm an "other" Hispanic.

You Gotta Have Faith wrote:3) In any case, I'm more under the impression that this fluctuates somewhat from school to school. As one poster pointed out, at Berkeley, there's a different set of priorities. But working in the other direction, I'm pretty sure that some schools are more lacking in one type of URM than another. Thus, their needs/preferences vary, despite the fact that 2 or 3 types of URM would be considered *roughly* equal.

It definitely is something that fluctuates more from school to school. There are many factors (including not just how they interpret Grutter but also how many Hispanics are normally applying and whether there's a large Hispanic population in the state). Also I think a couple states have enacted bans on AA policies at public schools, which would render this moot at those schools.

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vanwinkle
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Re: Could I be considered URM???

Postby vanwinkle » Thu Apr 29, 2010 1:28 am

mpasi wrote:Why does ethnicity/nationality matter? The race of the applicant should be about it, right? Hispanic is Hispanic, no matter what ethnic group you're in. The apps don't go that far into detail, do they?

:shock:

You're clearly not Hispanic.

(Also, yes, the apps do go into that much detail. Some ask "Mexican", "Puerto Rican", or "other"; others have a longer checklist; others have a blank for you to fill in your nationality.)

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You Gotta Have Faith
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Re: Could I be considered URM???

Postby You Gotta Have Faith » Thu Apr 29, 2010 1:47 am

Fair discussion. I don't know a LOT about the differences in Hispanic admissions. But even as an Hispanic who knows a bit more about it than me... you're still trying to get the full grasp on the "other" Hispanics :mrgreen:

vanwinkle wrote: Also I think a couple states have enacted bans on AA policies at public schools, which would render this moot at those schools.


Indeed. Here are those states:

California, with Proposition 209. It is not strongly enforced (see Berkeley, generally), but technically CA schools (only the public ones though) are not supposed to take race into account. Such schools tend to admit at least one or two non-URMs with lower numbers annually, in part to show that race has little/nothing to do with it.

Nebraska with Initiative 424.

Washington with Initiative 200.

Michigan with Prop 2 in 2006 statutorily altering a fair amount of what would have been acceptable under Grutter and Gratz (though exceptions are made so as not to totally overturn it)... some are still trying to get this brought to the S.Ct. as unconstitutional. But thus far, that has not happened.

Connecticut, well, it hasn't been applied to admissions just yet. But some would say it might be heading that way based off of Ricci v. DeStefano.

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mpasi
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Re: Could I be considered URM???

Postby mpasi » Thu Apr 29, 2010 1:54 am

vanwinkle wrote:
mpasi wrote:Why does ethnicity/nationality matter? The race of the applicant should be about it, right? Hispanic is Hispanic, no matter what ethnic group you're in. The apps don't go that far into detail, do they?

:shock:

You're clearly not Hispanic.

(Also, yes, the apps do go into that much detail. Some ask "Mexican", "Puerto Rican", or "other"; others have a longer checklist; others have a blank for you to fill in your nationality.)




No, I'm black. And from Texas. Hispanic and Mexican are synonymous here, even if you're not Mexican. I just thought that even though there are subgroups within the race, the bottom line is still the same. I'm not dismissing the different cultures or anything like that, just looking at the bottom line.

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Kohinoor
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Re: Could I be considered URM???

Postby Kohinoor » Thu Apr 29, 2010 2:56 am

dlac wrote:Koreans definitely get negative bumps at Boalt. I know this for a fact...

Probably best to leave that little tidbit out entirely.

Is this one of those made up facts?

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Re: Could I be considered URM???

Postby >:-) » Thu Apr 29, 2010 3:06 am

just claim to be philipino, all asian look alike to nonasians anyways and philipinos are "hispanic" since spain owned them untill the USA kicked their butts out. USA!USA!USA! :P

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You Gotta Have Faith
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Re: Could I be considered URM???

Postby You Gotta Have Faith » Thu Apr 29, 2010 3:14 am

>:-) wrote:just claim to be philipino, all asian look alike to nonasians anyways and philipinos are "hispanic" since spain owned them untill the USA kicked their butts out. USA!USA!USA! :P


Are you like 12 years old? :lol:

Juuuuust kidding.

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Re: Could I be considered URM???

Postby >:-) » Thu Apr 29, 2010 3:17 am

why you into little boys or something? :|

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newyorker88
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Re: Could I be considered URM???

Postby newyorker88 » Thu Apr 29, 2010 3:31 am

mpasi wrote:Why does ethnicity/nationality matter? The race of the applicant should be about it, right? Hispanic is Hispanic, no matter what ethnic group you're in.


wtf? you do know there's no such race as hispanic right.

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Re: Could I be considered URM???

Postby >:-) » Thu Apr 29, 2010 3:32 am

No shit sherlock, thats what she was trying to say. Learn to read.

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flyingpanda
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Re: Could I be considered URM???

Postby flyingpanda » Thu Apr 29, 2010 3:35 am

>:-) wrote:No shit sherlock, thats what she was trying to say. Learn to read.


You are very angry for someone with an upturned smile.

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Re: Could I be considered URM???

Postby >:-) » Thu Apr 29, 2010 3:36 am

Yeah retards piss me off. He quoted her saying what he tried to explain to her.....it screams inbred idiot. :x

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Re: Could I be considered URM???

Postby >:-) » Thu Apr 29, 2010 3:37 am

How could this level of stupidity not piss off anyone who read it? This idiot should be castrated to protect the human genome. :|
newyorker88 wrote:
mpasi wrote:Why does ethnicity/nationality matter? The race of the applicant should be about it, right? Hispanic is Hispanic, no matter what ethnic group you're in.


wtf? you do know there's no such race as hispanic right.




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