usc or wash u law

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estevanrey
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usc or wash u law

Postby estevanrey » Wed Apr 28, 2010 10:40 am

trying to decide between wash u and usc, have to decide by tomorrow. USC offered 25000 a year and I liked the school when I visited. Wash u offered 35000 and my brother lives in st louis but my be relocating soon. Please somebody help me decide.

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legalease9
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Re: usc or wash u law

Postby legalease9 » Wed Apr 28, 2010 10:41 am

Where do you want to practice?

Flanker1067
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Re: usc or wash u law

Postby Flanker1067 » Wed Apr 28, 2010 10:45 am

legalease9 wrote:Where do you want to practice?



Credited.

estevanrey
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Re: usc or wash u law

Postby estevanrey » Wed Apr 28, 2010 10:53 am

probably new mexico.

estevanrey
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Re: usc or wash u law

Postby estevanrey » Wed Apr 28, 2010 10:54 am

both have good lrap programs with usc's being a little better as it covers clerkships.

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NayBoer
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Re: usc or wash u law

Postby NayBoer » Wed Apr 28, 2010 11:05 am

I couldn't tell you which is better for New Mexico. My guess would be USC, just for proximity, but given how few legal jobs there are in NM I'd go for the money at WUSTL.

USC has higher tuition, higher cost of living, and is offering you $30k less in scholarships (over 3 years). So I'm assuming the total COA difference is more like $40k or higher. I'd take WUSTL and the money.

de5igual
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Re: usc or wash u law

Postby de5igual » Wed Apr 28, 2010 11:07 am


estevanrey
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Re: usc or wash u law

Postby estevanrey » Wed Apr 28, 2010 3:31 pm

I realize that it makes money sense to go to wash u however it seems that usc has better job prospects.

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najumobi
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Re: usc or wash u law

Postby najumobi » Wed Apr 28, 2010 3:40 pm

estevanrey wrote:I realize that it makes money sense to go to wash u however it seems that usc has better job prospects.
not much of a difference between the two if you want to work in NM. usc would give you a better shot at biglaw in general. the safe choice would be wustl since it would cost you less. you really should have visited. do you have to withdraw from other schools if you pay usc's deposit? or if you're concerned about getting your wustl deposit back....don't let the refund from wustl get you to make a decision before you really have to. 200 dollars is a small sacrifice when making a decision like this. you should really visit each school b/c the criteria and scholly amounts from each school doesn't make picking one school over the other a no-brainer.

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NayBoer
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Re: usc or wash u law

Postby NayBoer » Wed Apr 28, 2010 3:45 pm

estevanrey wrote:I realize that it makes money sense to go to wash u however it seems that usc has better job prospects.
In NM? What are you using for evidence?

USC places over 85% into Pacific. Presumably the vast majority of those are in the LA area. It places less than 3% into the entire Mountain region, of which NM is part. WUSTL similarly places an insignificant less than 2% into Mountain, but you'd save at least $30k in debt by going there.

If you just want biglaw, and are willing to live in LA, absolutely go to USC. But don't assume that the job prospects of USC in LA are equal to the prospects of USC far from LA. With USC tuition (45k minus 25k) and COL (60k for 3 years) you're still looking at over 6 figures in debt (less if work during school). WUSTL is cheaper, though still pricey. If there's no clear geographic or firm advantage, then WUSTL is the smarter move.

I would pick based on whether you want to live in LA or not. If you do, go to USC. If you don't, then near-full ride at WUSTL probably becomes a better option. Also, if you just want biglaw then go to USC and be ready to work in LA. You could always try moving to NM later.

What sort of law do you want to do in New Mexico?

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romothesavior
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Re: usc or wash u law

Postby romothesavior » Wed Apr 28, 2010 3:48 pm

NayBoer wrote:
estevanrey wrote:I realize that it makes money sense to go to wash u however it seems that usc has better job prospects.
In NM? What are you using for evidence?

USC places over 85% into Pacific. Presumably the vast majority of those are in the LA area. It places less than 3% into the entire Mountain region, of which NM is part. WUSTL similarly places an insignificant less than 2% into Mountain, but you'd save at least $30k in debt by going there.

If you just want biglaw, and are willing to live in LA, absolutely go to USC. But don't assume that the job prospects of USC in LA are equal to the prospects of USC far from LA. With USC tuition (45k minus 25k) and COL (60k for 3 years) you're still looking at over 6 figures in debt (less if work during school). WUSTL is cheaper, though still pricey. If there's no clear geographic or firm advantage, then WUSTL is the smarter move.

I would pick based on whether you want to live in LA or not. If you do, go to USC. If you don't, then near-full ride at WUSTL probably becomes a better option. Also, if you just want biglaw then go to USC and be ready to work in LA. You could always try moving to NM later.

What sort of law do you want to do in New Mexico?


TITCR

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NayBoer
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Re: usc or wash u law

Postby NayBoer » Wed Apr 28, 2010 4:03 pm

Just to check myself, I ran the NALP search for NM firms to see if any did OCI at USC or WUSTL. None at either. In fact, only 4 firms are listed by NALP for the whole state. Of those, two (one with 50 attorneys and one with 66 attorneys) did OCI at UNM law. Exactly one firm did OCI outside the state (at Texas and Arizona law).

At the firm that did OCI at 3 schools, Sutin Thayer & Browne, the lion's share of attorneys went to UNM. None went to USC or WUSTL, it seems, though there are other schools represented like Notre Dame, UCLA, and BU. The other firm, if you want to check their attorneys, is Rodey, Dickason, Sloan, Akin & Robb.

I think your best bet to practice in state would be a full ride to UNM law.

notme
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Re: usc or wash u law

Postby notme » Wed Apr 28, 2010 4:28 pm

There are some vocal WUSTL fans writing on here, but look at the above referenced poll, USC dominates in that poll for a reason. IMHO you'd be crazy to take WUSTL regardless of the cost difference.

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najumobi
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Re: usc or wash u law

Postby najumobi » Wed Apr 28, 2010 4:30 pm

notme wrote:There are some vocal WUSTL fans writing on here, but look at the above referenced poll, USC dominates in that poll for a reason. IMHO you'd be crazy to take WUSTL regardless of the cost difference.
you'd go with usc @ sticker over wustl @ free?

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romothesavior
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Re: usc or wash u law

Postby romothesavior » Wed Apr 28, 2010 4:33 pm

notme wrote:There are some vocal WUSTL fans writing on here, but look at the above referenced poll, USC dominates in that poll for a reason. IMHO you'd be crazy to take WUSTL regardless of the cost difference.


Although I do admit I am going to WUSTL and I often post in WUSTL related threads, I am far from a Wash U troll. I actually have voted against them about half the time in threads like these.

The fact that there is little discernable difference in placement in NM means OP should look at other factors, such as: money difference, location preference, preference on "backup" market if NM doesn't work out, campus preference, etc.

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NayBoer
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Re: usc or wash u law

Postby NayBoer » Wed Apr 28, 2010 5:12 pm

I troll for WUSTL, though I'll be attending another school. In this case I'm not convinced there's an appreciable gain from USC, certainly not one borne out by any data posted in the thread.

OP's goals are not entirely clear, but it doesn't seem like USC will offer any better shot than WUSTL. I still say the best option is UNM with money. But it would be nice to know what kind of law he wants to practice. There just isn't much of a legal market in New Mexico. Given that, taking out an extra $40k for USC's unproven benefit seems unwise.

Also, the linked poll is not relevant because that poster prefers California, and got equal $ from both. This poster wants to work in a market covered by neither school and got an extra $30k from WashU.

musicfor18
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Re: usc or wash u law

Postby musicfor18 » Wed Apr 28, 2010 8:07 pm

najumobi wrote:
notme wrote:There are some vocal WUSTL fans writing on here, but look at the above referenced poll, USC dominates in that poll for a reason. IMHO you'd be crazy to take WUSTL regardless of the cost difference.
you'd go with usc @ sticker over wustl @ free?


I am the author of the poll you reference here. There is a big difference between this thread and mine: I was offered identical scholarships at both schools. The OP in this thread was not.

de5igual
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Re: usc or wash u law

Postby de5igual » Thu Apr 29, 2010 9:33 am

musicfor18 wrote:
najumobi wrote:
notme wrote:There are some vocal WUSTL fans writing on here, but look at the above referenced poll, USC dominates in that poll for a reason. IMHO you'd be crazy to take WUSTL regardless of the cost difference.
you'd go with usc @ sticker over wustl @ free?


I am the author of the poll you reference here. There is a big difference between this thread and mine: I was offered identical scholarships at both schools. The OP in this thread was not.


OP in this thread was offered 10K more at WUSTL, which some may say isn't that significant of a difference. Most of the arguments for each school are still valid, hence the reference to your thread.

estevanrey
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Re: usc or wash u law

Postby estevanrey » Thu Apr 29, 2010 10:36 am

I visited both schools and I felt that the size of WUSTL was a disadvantage, but the facilites, public transit, cwe were all positives.

JOThompson
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Re: usc or wash u law

Postby JOThompson » Thu Apr 29, 2010 10:45 am

I'd attend USC for the larger market in its backyard.

rundoxierun
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Re: usc or wash u law

Postby rundoxierun » Thu Apr 29, 2010 12:18 pm

estevanrey wrote:I visited both schools and I felt that the size of WUSTL was a disadvantage, but the facilites, public transit, cwe were all positives.


How exactly did you feel that ~720 vs ~600 would put WUSTL at a disadvantage.. Im really not following the logic here. Are you saying that graduating the extra ~40 people a year puts WUSTL grads at a disadvantage?? or do you mean size of the campus?

estevanrey
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Re: usc or wash u law

Postby estevanrey » Thu Apr 29, 2010 1:56 pm

No I felt that a larger class and size of law school meant less individual attention ie there was no class available for me to sit in on and it wasn't a big deal to them. It is not that the admissions staff wasn't nice because they were very nice it just that as a larger school they aren't able to pay attention to individual concerns. Also the size of the two schools are 839 and 605 and that is a signifigant difference. I attended a large undergraduate institution and I realize that the larger the school the more individual concerns are taken lighltly. That is how it is a disadvantage to attend a larger shcool not that there are more people graduating, but that could be a disadvantage in that the market will be flooded with graduates with the same diploma as you making it a more difficult career search. Also USC does not release grades to employers and wash u does so there is less diferentiating between graduates.

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romothesavior
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Re: usc or wash u law

Postby romothesavior » Thu Apr 29, 2010 1:59 pm

estevanrey wrote:No I felt that a larger class and size of law school meant less individual attention ie there was no class available for me to sit in on and it wasn't a big deal to them. It is not that the admissions staff wasn't nice because they were very nice it just that as a larger school they aren't able to pay attention to individual concerns. Also the size of the two schools are 839 and 605 and that is a signifigant difference. I attended a large undergraduate institution and I realize that the larger the school the more individual concerns are taken lighltly. That is how it is a disadvantage to attend a larger shcool not that there are more people graduating, but that could be a disadvantage in that the market will be flooded with graduates with the same diploma as you making it a more difficult career search. Also USC does not release grades to employers and wash u does so there is less diferentiating between graduates.


This is ridiculous. The 40 students is not a big difference. Wash U is a pretty average sized law school (granted, larger than the other two I considered with UIUC and Vandy), but every single student RAVED about the personalized attention they get at the school. The amount of personalization a person gets at law school is less a function of size (since the size differences are generally not that big) than a function of the atmosphere and the faculty. Every single student I have talked to from Wash U has said the faculty are incredibly open and personal.

Comparing a large state school for undergrad to a law school of ~700 people is ridiculous.

estevanrey
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Re: usc or wash u law

Postby estevanrey » Thu Apr 29, 2010 2:12 pm

ok then,
I am saying from my own personal experience the attention I recieved when I visited was less than stellar also I have heard that job prospects there (as everwhere) are hurting right now. Also the school size is 839 stop saying around 700 because that is not the same. This a big difference for law schools as it affects everything from section size in classes to the career office, and yes wash u's section size is larger. I know a Wash U 3l who is at the top of the class and was recently told that the place where they interend was not going to be able to hire this person. Now this person is scrambling to find employment.

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romothesavior
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Re: usc or wash u law

Postby romothesavior » Thu Apr 29, 2010 2:20 pm

estevanrey wrote:ok then,
I am saying from my own personal experience the attention I recieved when I visited was less than stellar also I have heard that job prospects there (as everwhere) are hurting right now. Also the school size is 839 stop saying around 700 because that is not the same. This a big difference for law schools as it affects everything from section size in classes to the career office, and yes wash u's section size is larger. I know a Wash U 3l who is at the top of the class and was recently told that the place where they interend was not going to be able to hire this person. Now this person is scrambling to find employment.


USC job prospects are slightly better than Wash U's. But some anecdotal story of some 3L getting no-offered is not conclusive evidence of anything. This kind of stuff has happened to students at just every law school in the country.

And Wash U's JD enrollment is between 700-800. Where are you getting 839? And quite frankly... it really doesn't make one bit of difference. This isn't like comparing a private liberal arts college with 2,000 kids and a state school with 40,000.

FWIW, you should go to USC if that's really where you want to go. If your gut feeling says USC and you think they will give you better prospects in NM, go there.




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