Does an MBA Deflect Attention from A Lousy UGPA from 1991? Forum

[bocajoes]

My undergraduate grades aren't something that I am very proud to disclose, and I am pretty sure that every law school admissions representative in the country would laugh when they see my transcript. However, I graduated in 1991 at a time when my priorities were...let's just say they were "different." In 2004 I was admitted to a AACSB accredited business school; I earned my MBA in 2006 with a 3.9 (B in an Economics course, A's otherwise.)

I know that I must absolutely ace the LSAT. What I am not sure of is how much my 3.9 GPA from a AASCB accredited business school will outweigh a lousy GPA from a liberal arts college, given the fact that so much time has passed between the two.

What are my chances?

[270910]

No.

[digitalcntrl]

My undergraduate grades aren't something that I am very proud to disclose, and I am pretty sure that every law school admissions representative in the country would laugh when they see my transcript. However, I graduated in 1991 at a time when my priorities were...let's just say they were "different." In 2004 I was admitted to a AACSB accredited business school; I earned my MBA in 2006 with a 3.9 (B in an Economics course, A's otherwise.)

I know that I must absolutely ace the LSAT. What I am not sure of is how much my 3.9 GPA from a AASCB accredited business school will outweigh a lousy GPA from a liberal arts college, given the fact that so much time has passed between the two.

What are my chances?

Any grade after your first bachelors is not even reported by LSAC and has virtually no bearing on your admission. At best the MBA is a soft.

[MURPH]

Any grade after your first bachelors is not even reported by LSAC and has virtually no bearing on your admission. At best the MBA is a soft.

This is incorrect. All grades from all accredited schools are reported by LSAC. They just don't count toward your LSAC calculated GPA. The other part is true. No one cares about your MBA. Sorry. My MSN grades did not make up for my BSN grades. But my LSAT score did.
Your only hope is to be above the 75% in the LSAT for the schools that you apply to. Applying early may help. (But not if you apply to Cornell because they take 6 fucking months and I still don't have an answer)

[bocajoes]

Thank you all for your absolute candor. I could tell from reading random threads on this board that the board was populated (mostly) by credible people who are "in the know."

The reality is that the time investment, the money investment/debt incurred (>$100K in loans on top of the $75K that I took for my MBA), in conjunction with the fact that I am a long-shot, is putting me off of the idea of applying. Let me elaborate: a decent LSAT prep course from Princeton or Kaplan is $1,200 (on average.) The endless hours of preparation while trying to hold down a full-time job, plus a marriage and mortgage, don't seem like they would be worth the payout. I would be graduating in 2015. I would be a 46 year old first year associate. I would have over $200K in student loans. I may not be in much better shape in terms of income than I am right now. Let's not forget that getting into even a half-decent school is a stretch (at best) with a 2.4 UGPA from a small Liberal Arts college. The risk doesn't outweigh the reward.

[270910]

Thank you all for your absolute candor. I could tell from reading random threads on this board that the board was populated (mostly) by credible people who are "in the know."

The reality is that the time investment, the money investment/debt incurred (>$100K in loans on top of the $75K that I took for my MBA), in conjunction with the fact that I am a long-shot, is putting me off of the idea of applying. Let me elaborate: a decent LSAT prep course from Princeton or Kaplan is $1,200 (on average.) The endless hours of preparation while trying to hold down a full-time job, plus a marriage and mortgage, don't seem like they would be worth the payout. I would be graduating in 2015. I would be a 46 year old first year associate. I would have over $200K in student loans. I may not be in much better shape in terms of income than I am right now. Let's not forget that getting into even a half-decent school is a stretch (at best) with a 2.4 UGPA from a small Liberal Arts college. The risk doesn't outweigh the reward.

Smart analysis. Plenty of dreams and careers to pursue where your undergrad GPA / potential debt won't be an anchor the way law school would be!

[baboon309]

1. Why do you want to go to law school?

2. Where did you get your MBA?

[MURPH]

a decent LSAT prep course from Princeton or Kaplan is $1,200

Princeton and Kaplan are among the worst prep courses available in most people's opinion. I've had some experience with Kaplan's GRE material. They suck.

Testmasters, BluePrint and Powerscore are known to be good. GetPrepped sucks, I used to tutor for them. I tossed their material and just taught students the right way to do it.

Think of your GPA and LSAT not as points on a line graph but as items to place in two sets of three boxes. At every school, there is one box for GPA below 25%, another for GPAs between 25% and 75% and a third for GPAs above 75%. It is the same for LSAT score: a low, a medium and a high scorebox. You are in the low score box for GPA. If you end up in the low score box for LSAT then don't waste your money on an application. If you end up in the middle box you may get lucky and slip in somehow. If you can get a score that puts you in the high (>75%) LSAT box then you are a splitter. You have a reasonable, but unpredictable chance of getting into that school.

I have a sub 3.0 GPA. I got into UCLA and scholarships at some other top 30 schools. I am waitlisted at several T14s. It took a year of LSAT prep, including 9 months of tutoring other students. But it can be done.

[Stringer Bell]

Just a couple of thoughts.

1. Your MBA GPA means little to nothing. However, the fact that you are so far away time wise from your UG GPA is somewhat relevant. If you pwn the LSAT, there may be some opportunities that wouldn't have been there for a fresh grad with the same GPA.
2. There can still be some nice options with a high enough LSAT, even with your GPA (Northwestern and GULC).
3. No need to pay for a Kaplan course. Powerscore bibles and practice tests can get you to 170+.
4. Your concern about being too old is valid. I'll be in my early 30's when I graduate and was somewhat worried about this. The answer that I have gotten from a CSO office and some attorneys that I know is that mid 30's may have been a little bit of a detriment several years ago, but now days work experience is beneficial and that my age is not really a problem. They also acknowledged that at some point you can be too old. You might want to contact the career services office at a couple of places you might want to target such as Northwestern to get their take on what kind of opportunities could be available for you.

[mhernton]

I had a 2.2 UGPA from 2001 and an MBA from 2006 I got into a top 30 school. The further you are from undergrad the less weight your UGPA carries. I also have every other soft known to man so the admissions board could choose to ignore my UGPA. My LSAT score was a very below average 155. You need to use your work experience and success as leverage. The ADCOMs are human they know people change. You are also not really in direct competition with the kids coming out of college into law school. You're considered a non-traditional candidate because of your age and experience. The normal criteria for guessing on whether you gain admission or not don't really apply. That being said, I wouldn't look at a top ten unless you score a 167 or above. I say that because a good friend of mine is at Columbia with a 168. He was also a non-traditional candidate with ridiculous softs. Your best bet honestly, is to call the law schools directly and talk to the dean's of admission or their assistants about your case, which is very specific and ask their opinion. You'd be surprised how frank they'll be with you. Good Luck....