who else is excited beyond belief for LS

(Applications Advice, Letters of Recommendation . . . )
honestabe84
Posts: 491
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2010 1:47 pm

Re: who else is excited beyond belief for LS

Postby honestabe84 » Wed Apr 28, 2010 5:14 pm

LoveXOXO1 wrote:Glad to see some arguing going on here.

Let me re-focus the discussion. Legal job openings are few and far between. As BIGLAW jobs dry up, it creates a ripple effect in the legal sector. BIGLAW aspirants who couldn't get BIGLAW then use their credentials to get public interest/government jobs which were where worse-ranked schools placed graduates. Now many of these "TTT" graduates have no where to land after graduation.



From what I understand, you can't intern at a corporate law firm, focus entirely biglaw, apply for the public sector and expect to be ahead of someone who has dedicated the past three years to PI. You need to show commitment. If you never even shown a shred of interest in the public sector, I don't care what your grades are and what school you went to (within reason), you're going to be passed over for someone who has been taking classes, internships and clinics that are PI related. Employers can smell someone who using PI as a fall back option from a mile away.

Maybe in New York and the like employers care more about prestige than anything else, but where I live they're going to choose the person that's committed to the job they are applying to. Obviously, you can't be a lazy dumb ass, but you're going to have a leg up.
Last edited by honestabe84 on Wed Apr 28, 2010 5:16 pm, edited 2 times in total.

LoveXOXO1
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2010 11:23 am

Re: who else is excited beyond belief for LS

Postby LoveXOXO1 » Wed Apr 28, 2010 5:15 pm

A'nold wrote:Just b/c you guys repeat the same cliche (bolded) over and over again does not make it true. Most law grads get law jobs. I'm not talking about taking out sticker to attend John Marshall here, I'm talking about paying medium tuition at a medium school. The average law student will get a law job. Now, once again, if we are talking biglaw or bust, you're screwed, but these overgeneralizations are so freaking annoying.


Sure. You're obviously speaking from first-hand knowledge lol. This may have been true in 2005. Today, "medium tuition at a medium school" might be worth it if you are top 5%-10% of your class. Maybe.

Maybe you should have studied economics instead of political science. SUPPLY of fresh law school graduates has been rapidly increasing (classes getting bigger and new law schools popping up every year) while DEMAND has sharply contracted in 2008-2009 and is currently (at best) stagnant. Also remember that tuition at ALL schools (even "medium" ones lol) keeps creeping higher during all of this.

LoveXOXO1
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2010 11:23 am

Re: who else is excited beyond belief for LS

Postby LoveXOXO1 » Wed Apr 28, 2010 5:25 pm

honestabe84 wrote:From what I understand, you can't intern at a corporate law firm, focus entirely biglaw, apply for the public sector and expect to be ahead of someone who has dedicated the past three years to PI. You need to show commitment. If you never even shown a shred of interest in the public sector, I don't care what your grades are and what school you went to (within reason), you're going to be passed over for someone who has been taking classes, internships and clinics that are PI related. Employers can smell someone who using PI as a fall back option from a mile away.

Maybe in New York and the like employers care more about prestige than anything else, but where I live they're going to choose the person that's committed to the job they are applying to. Obviously, you can't be a lazy dumb ass, but you're going to have a leg up.


You're partly right and partly wrong. Laid off lawyers that actually have substantive legal experience outside of law school are going to trump a fresh JD that doesn't know crap...it doesn't matter what the practice area is. Public interest/legal aid organizations are not going to spend their sparse salary money training someone fresh out of law school when they can hire someone at the same cost WITH LEGAL EXPERIENCE.

I do agree with you, however, on being able to sniff out people who don't care. Sure, if the PI has the money to take on a new JD out of law school, and you have many internships and clinics that are relatable, you'll probably get the job. But you better want to make non-profit work your lifelong career, because you'll be stuck there permanently. And you'll still have to make payments for 10 years on your loans until IBR kicks in. This is all assuming that a job is available and you can beat out all of the other candidates interviewing. I know people who couldn't even get UNPAID jobs at NPOs this summer, and this is happening all through the T14.

honestabe84
Posts: 491
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2010 1:47 pm

Re: who else is excited beyond belief for LS

Postby honestabe84 » Wed Apr 28, 2010 5:32 pm

You're partly right and partly wrong. Laid off lawyers that actually have substantive legal experience outside of law school are going to trump a fresh JD that doesn't know crap...it doesn't matter what the practice area is. Public interest/legal aid organizations are not going to spend their sparse salary money training someone fresh out of law school when they can hire someone at the same cost WITH LEGAL EXPERIENCE.


I guess it depends what your legal experience is. If you've been doing doc review for some law firm for the past few years, I doubt that PI employers will think you're that much more valuable. On the other hand, if you worked in a litigation firm and you know your way around the court room then that's a different story.

I do agree with you, however, on being able to sniff out people who don't care. Sure, if the PI has the money to take on a new JD out of law school, and you have many internships and clinics that are relatable, you'll probably get the job. But you better want to make non-profit work your lifelong career, because you'll be stuck there permanently. And you'll still have to make payments for 10 years on your loans until IBR kicks in. This is all assuming that a job is available and you can beat out all of the other candidates interviewing. I know people who couldn't even get UNPAID jobs at NPOs this summer, and this is happening all through the T14.
[/quote]

Not exactly sure what you mean hear. I don't know a hell of a lot about IBR, but I thought that as soon as you start working for the govt. after law school, IBR kicks in and you start making the reduced monthly payments

Where do you live out of curiosity? It sounds like you live in an area that is surrounded by top law schools. NY? Boston? Somewhere in CA?

User avatar
OneKnight
Posts: 429
Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2009 9:00 pm

Re: who else is excited beyond belief for LS

Postby OneKnight » Wed Apr 28, 2010 5:35 pm

Wow. The title of this thread is not appropriate for the content inside. Go figure :roll:

User avatar
uwb09
Posts: 574
Joined: Tue Sep 29, 2009 2:09 am

Re: who else is excited beyond belief for LS

Postby uwb09 » Wed Apr 28, 2010 5:53 pm

LoveXOXO1 wrote:
A'nold wrote:Just b/c you guys repeat the same cliche (bolded) over and over again does not make it true. Most law grads get law jobs. I'm not talking about taking out sticker to attend John Marshall here, I'm talking about paying medium tuition at a medium school. The average law student will get a law job. Now, once again, if we are talking biglaw or bust, you're screwed, but these overgeneralizations are so freaking annoying.


Sure. You're obviously speaking from first-hand knowledge lol. This may have been true in 2005. Today, "medium tuition at a medium school" might be worth it if you are top 5%-10% of your class. Maybe.


Maybe you should have studied economics instead of political science. SUPPLY of fresh law school graduates has been rapidly increasing (classes getting bigger and new law schools popping up every year) while DEMAND has sharply contracted in 2008-2009 and is currently (at best) stagnant. Also remember that tuition at ALL schools (even "medium" ones lol) keeps creeping higher during all of this.

define "worth it"

once again, if you are going to law school to have a career as an attorney, then it is definitely worth it, because it is the only way you can have that career.

if you score a 145 on your LSAT and don't get in anywhere but T4s, then yes, it might be time to question your personal abilities as it relates to a career as an attorney. but if you can get into most T2s, have a shot at some T1s, and get good rides at TTTs, then you should be more than capable to have a good career as an attorney.

if you match that with a passion for the field, then you are looking at a happy future, even if it involves salaries in the 50-70K range (which btw most people would give their left arm to make)

if you are going to law school to make big money, aka the WRONG REASON, you are destined to crash and burn. either financially or emotionally when you get into your 2nd year of 80 hour work weeks working a job you hate just so you can cash those 6 figure paychecks

User avatar
prezidentv8
Posts: 2821
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2008 5:33 am

Re: who else is excited beyond belief for LS

Postby prezidentv8 » Wed Apr 28, 2010 6:05 pm

--ImageRemoved--

User avatar
Always Credited
Posts: 2509
Joined: Wed Jun 24, 2009 1:31 pm

Re: who else is excited beyond belief for LS

Postby Always Credited » Wed Apr 28, 2010 6:10 pm

LoveXOXO1 wrote:Glad to see some arguing going on here.

Let me re-focus the discussion. Legal job openings are few and far between. As BIGLAW jobs dry up, it creates a ripple effect in the legal sector. BIGLAW aspirants who couldn't get BIGLAW then use their credentials to get public interest/government jobs which were where worse-ranked schools placed graduates. Now many of these "TTT" graduates have no where to land after graduation.

So here are the outcome scenarios:

$120,000 in debt + NO JOB = YOUR [FRICKED].
$120,000 in debt + BIGLAW = YOUR GREAT!
$0 in debt + NO JOB = YOULL PROBABLY SURVIVE.
$0 in debt + JOB = YOUR GREAT!

To be honest, I don't really give a [dang] where you want to work or what kind of advocacy you want to do after graduation. If you don't have any debt, then knock yourself out and do whatever you want. If you have 6-figures of debt, you typically have two options: BIGLAW, or a credit score that tears you a new anus because you can't make the student loan payments. Good luck getting a house, mortgage, or any other type of legitimate loan.

I keep hearing about IBR. (Please take a moment to re-read what I posted above about the current availability of public interest and qualifying-government jobs.) THERE IS ALSO A SHORTAGE OF IBR-QUALIFYING JOBS! So kiss IBR goodbye, say hello to waiting tables/bartending/basement doc review/craigslist.

But I'll repeat. $0 in debt + NO JOB = YOUR OK. If you aren't taking on any (or very low) debt in law school, then you can totally disregard all of this gloom because you won't have to worry about crushing loan payments.

Ya, I know a lot of 1Ls and 2Ls that got non-BIGLAW summer legal jobs. The huge problem is that THEY DON'T LEAD TO FULL TIME OFFERS AFTER GRADUATION. Corporate in-house, government, etc. don't take on first-year associates because it costs to much to train them (thank you again law school for your terrible curriculum of relevant legal skills). So besides law firms and federal clerking, I don't really see many employment opportunities for new JD holders.

SportsFanatic wrote:ummmm. I didn't read the entire thread, but this person went to Chapman and is complaining about getting no offers from Big Law. I stopped reading after that.


Try reading that thread again. "Cautious T22 URM" is not the one going to Chapman. If I had to take a wild guess, I would assume he is attending a "T22." ("To be fair" attends Chapman apparently.)

honestabe84 wrote:If JDUers spent a 10th of the time working towards succeeding as they do on TLS and JDU, they would probably be senior partners at a V10 firm.


1. I've never even been to JDU.
2. By reading the few dissenters in this thread besides myself, you understand that we ARE THE SUCCESSFUL ONES telling you this?!? We are the ones that made it out alive by the skin of our teeth, and it hasn't (for the most part) been an enjoyable experience doing so. Of course I would be more skeptical of what we said if none of us had jobs and were just griping about our shitty grades and unemployment status.
3. To everyone else calling for us dissenters to be banned or our posts just put in the corner shadows in a thread that groups all of our comments together (probably so that 0L TLSers are disinclined to even look at them), you would either have to be 0Ls or law students with zero 2L/3L friends. But hey, I guess if you're going to Duke with your guys' 100% employment rate, of course you wouldn't see the slaughter...lol

A'nold wrote:A question that is never answered by you guys: What the hell do you advise people to do w/ their Poli Sci degree now?

I understand that this is an often-asked question and a very complex one. Of course, if you had been planning to go to be a lawyer since your freshman year, then you should've been watching the legal market very closely. (And yes, unless you started pursuing your polisci degree in 2008, you've been screwed. Sorry. You have only the FHA to thank.) I think anyone in a polisci program knows that there are not many BA polisci jobs out there (or liberal arts in general). Too bad. You can still get an entry-level job somewhere and defer your LS start date until things start clearing up. If you can't get some government-related job (or whatever else actually uses the knowledge learned in political science classes), then get what you can get. You really think taking out $100,000 in loans in the answer? I don't think so. You might as well buy $100,000 in lotto tickets. Probably similar odds of paying off your debt.

And to counter your question with another. Why the [heck] do 0Ls take advice from other 0Ls who have absolutely zero experience with the law school process? I want to say it's so you can keep your hopes alive and don't have to face the real-world facts that the legal market is over-saturated, and that paying back thousands of dollars in students loans will be easy.

To repeat one more time, if you won't have any loans, then you will probably be fine. If you will be taking out a significant amount in student loans (aka "paying sticker" or half-tuition even), think very long and hard about your decision to do so. In this legal market, you have a very good chance of not being able to repay them.


Fuck you.

imisscollege
Posts: 438
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 3:21 pm

Re: who else is excited beyond belief for LS

Postby imisscollege » Wed Apr 28, 2010 6:11 pm

As the OP, I think that the 0L's who are so dismissive of the advice of the angry 3L's or grads or whatever are being naive. It's a god damn bloodbath out there. I just wanted to say thanks and that I do appreciate all the negative attitudes on TLS because if it were all positive, it wouldn't be very useful because it wouldn't be realistic. I sense that, as my mother tends to say, the truth lies somewhere in between. One of the posters is implying that people at C are fucked. Maybe this is true for 1 or 2 students but I find it ridic hard to believe that this is true for even a significant fraction of people at C. Other 0L's say whatever fuck it all i'm going to a non-TTT law school I have it made. And that's obviously not true ITE.

As a result of the negative attitudes on forums like these, I am pretty happy with my decision (which I have not officially made yet but it's where I'm leaning) to attend a very strong regional t30 in a city i love with very significant money over lower t14 at sticker. I want to be a DA in this region that I love and have wanted that for quite some time. When the time is right, maybe I'll jump into politics or biglaw but for now I really just want to get into the courtroom and I don't care about money because my ride is so significant. THIS is why I am excited for law school (plus the new enviro, new schedule, and intellectual stimulation of course).

BUT If I hadn't spent the ungodly amount of hours on this site that I have, I might have made a different decision which I would now call quite uninformed. So to conclude, thank you all you realists. I know you're not trolling.

User avatar
prezidentv8
Posts: 2821
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2008 5:33 am

Re: who else is excited beyond belief for LS

Postby prezidentv8 » Wed Apr 28, 2010 6:13 pm

imisscollege wrote:As the OP, I think that the 0L's who are so dismissive of the advice of the angry 3L's or grads or whatever are being naive. It's a god damn bloodbath out there. I just wanted to say thanks and that I do appreciate all the negative attitudes on TLS because if it were all positive, it wouldn't be very useful because it wouldn't be realistic. I sense that, as my mother tends to say, the truth lies somewhere in between. One of the posters is implying that people at C are fucked. Maybe this is true for 1 or 2 students but I find it ridic hard to believe that this is true for even a significant fraction of people at C. Other 0L's say whatever fuck it all i'm going to a non-TTT law school I have it made. And that's obviously not true ITE.

As a result of the negative attitudes on forums like these, I am pretty happy with my decision (which I have not officially made yet but it's where I'm leaning) to attend a very strong regional t30 in a city i love with very significant money over lower t14 at sticker. I want to be a DA in this region that I love and have wanted that for quite some time. When the time is right, maybe I'll jump into politics or biglaw but for now I really just want to get into the courtroom and I don't care about money because my ride is so significant. THIS is why I am excited for law school (plus the new enviro, new schedule, and intellectual stimulation of course).

BUT If I hadn't spent the ungodly amount of hours on this site that I have, I might have made a different decision which I would now call quite uninformed. So to conclude, thank you all you realists. I know you're not trolling.


Eh...not trolling, maybe. Redundant, definitely.

Frank
Posts: 218
Joined: Sun Oct 19, 2008 8:25 pm

Re: who else is excited beyond belief for LS

Postby Frank » Wed Apr 28, 2010 6:21 pm

.
Last edited by Frank on Mon Sep 27, 2010 1:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
uwb09
Posts: 574
Joined: Tue Sep 29, 2009 2:09 am

Re: who else is excited beyond belief for LS

Postby uwb09 » Wed Apr 28, 2010 6:29 pm

Frank wrote:
imisscollege wrote:As the OP, I think that the 0L's who are so dismissive of the advice of the angry 3L's or grads or whatever are being naive. It's a god damn bloodbath out there. I just wanted to say thanks and that I do appreciate all the negative attitudes on TLS because if it were all positive, it wouldn't be very useful because it wouldn't be realistic. I sense that, as my mother tends to say, the truth lies somewhere in between. One of the posters is implying that people at C are fucked. Maybe this is true for 1 or 2 students but I find it ridic hard to believe that this is true for even a significant fraction of people at C. Other 0L's say whatever fuck it all i'm going to a non-TTT law school I have it made. And that's obviously not true ITE.

As a result of the negative attitudes on forums like these, I am pretty happy with my decision (which I have not officially made yet but it's where I'm leaning) to attend a very strong regional t30 in a city i love with very significant money over lower t14 at sticker. I want to be a DA in this region that I love and have wanted that for quite some time. When the time is right, maybe I'll jump into politics or biglaw but for now I really just want to get into the courtroom and I don't care about money because my ride is so significant. THIS is why I am excited for law school (plus the new enviro, new schedule, and intellectual stimulation of course).

BUT If I hadn't spent the ungodly amount of hours on this site that I have, I might have made a different decision which I would now call quite uninformed. So to conclude, thank you all you realists. I know you're not trolling.


Talk to the third of the class at C that got nothing from OCI and ask them how they feel about your description that ITE just affect 1 or 2 of CLS students. That is 135 students of 450.

excuse me while I shed a tear because law students will actually have to put in footwork and personal effort to find a job, and that major law firms aren't just giving them out like candy because of the name on your diploma

User avatar
prezidentv8
Posts: 2821
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2008 5:33 am

Re: who else is excited beyond belief for LS

Postby prezidentv8 » Wed Apr 28, 2010 6:34 pm

uwb09 wrote:excuse me while I shed a tear because law students will actually have to put in footwork and personal effort to find a job, and that major law firms aren't just giving them out like candy because of the name on your diploma


Whoa WHOA WHOA WHOA WHOA!!!!

What did I sign up for?! I thought when I graduated people would just line the streets and throw money at me!

Frank
Posts: 218
Joined: Sun Oct 19, 2008 8:25 pm

Re: who else is excited beyond belief for LS

Postby Frank » Wed Apr 28, 2010 6:37 pm

.
Last edited by Frank on Mon Sep 27, 2010 1:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

LoveXOXO1
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2010 11:23 am

Re: who else is excited beyond belief for LS

Postby LoveXOXO1 » Wed Apr 28, 2010 6:44 pm

imisscollege wrote:As the OP, I think that the 0L's who are so dismissive of the advice of the angry 3L's or grads or whatever are being naive. It's a god damn bloodbath out there. I just wanted to say thanks and that I do appreciate all the negative attitudes on TLS because if it were all positive, it wouldn't be very useful because it wouldn't be realistic. I sense that, as my mother tends to say, the truth lies somewhere in between. One of the posters is implying that people at C are fucked. Maybe this is true for 1 or 2 students but I find it ridic hard to believe that this is true for even a significant fraction of people at C. Other 0L's say whatever fuck it all i'm going to a non-TTT law school I have it made. And that's obviously not true ITE.

As a result of the negative attitudes on forums like these, I am pretty happy with my decision (which I have not officially made yet but it's where I'm leaning) to attend a very strong regional t30 in a city i love with very significant money over lower t14 at sticker. I want to be a DA in this region that I love and have wanted that for quite some time. When the time is right, maybe I'll jump into politics or biglaw but for now I really just want to get into the courtroom and I don't care about money because my ride is so significant. THIS is why I am excited for law school (plus the new enviro, new schedule, and intellectual stimulation of course).

BUT If I hadn't spent the ungodly amount of hours on this site that I have, I might have made a different decision which I would now call quite uninformed. So to conclude, thank you all you realists. I know you're not trolling.


I agree that you have made a smart choice. If you are looking to stay regional, are getting a nice scholarship, have connections with the area, then I think you are on the right track. I also think that all of your research and seeking multiple opinions will make you much more informed than you fellow 1Ls next year, and will hopefully give you a leg-up on them. Trust me, they will be competing for the same spots as you.

Obviously you won't like this warning, but ADA's will be especially hard to come by (but let's all keep our fingers crossed that state budgets can straighten themselves out in the next 3-5 years... obviously this won't happen in CA, so hopefully your T30 isn't there). If DA office is what you are shooting for, definitely load up on civil and criminal clinics at your school, and shoot for federal judge clerkship/DA intern/USAO internship your 1L summer. (Not to advertise for AutoAdmit/XOXO, but there is often a lot of good threads that discuss getting clerkship positions... COA clerks often take questions, and I think a SCOTUS clerk (non-flame) has even fielded questions and given out pointers in the past.)

I'm not sure what you are doing your 0L summer, but interning in a DA/local prosecutor's office would be great. If you did well with them, I'm sure it could open doors for you as you begin your 1L summer job search.

As far as us dissenters telling you that a LOT of CLS/T14/T25ers are having difficulty finding jobs, WHY DON'T YOU BELIEVE/LISTEN TO US? Do you understand that we actually ATTEND the law schools? Know the people without jobs, getting no-offered, graduating unemployed and suicidal? Are seeing the slaughter first hand? Especially those of us that got lucky with great jobs, why would we make this [shizz] up? It's because we see so many 0Ls in Lollipop Land and totally oblivious to the hardships going on within the walls of legal education. Maybe we actually have a heart, and even though we don't know any of you, don't want you guys/girls flushing your futures down the toilet (at least before thinking it through).

Like I keep saying, it's all about DEBT DEBT DEBT.

On a side note, I think a lot of us can see that a looming law school debt bubble (and a education debt bubble in general). http://abovethelaw.com/2010/04/the-next-bubble-law-school-tuition/ Just like the FHA convinced so many people to buy a house who couldn't end up affording the loan payments, TLSers and LSs are convincing many people to take out six figure debt to get JDs and many will not be able to afford the loan payments. At least in the housing crisis, you could give the house back. Unfortunately, you can't return a JD and ask for your money back.

imisscollege is at least thinking about his/her future debt load. Too many 0Ls are skipping this crucial step.

<3 redundancy.

User avatar
uwb09
Posts: 574
Joined: Tue Sep 29, 2009 2:09 am

Re: who else is excited beyond belief for LS

Postby uwb09 » Wed Apr 28, 2010 6:46 pm

Frank wrote:Jesus, OCI includes more than BIGLAW. Tons of gov agencies, non-profits, the works. Get a clue.

:cry:

you can't see it, but i'm playing a little violin

i'm sorry that your school has students at it that weren't given a direct path to a job from the career office and will actually have to venture out into the real world and take personal responsibility for their own future

god forbid you weren't coddled and cradled from your first 1L class to your first day of law work, what a tough world you must live in

let me go find all the people who will spend their entire lives never making more than 30-40K a year, in jobs they hate, just to get by, maybe they will feel more sympathy for you then i will, i doubt it

Frank
Posts: 218
Joined: Sun Oct 19, 2008 8:25 pm

Re: who else is excited beyond belief for LS

Postby Frank » Wed Apr 28, 2010 6:58 pm

.
Last edited by Frank on Mon Sep 27, 2010 1:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Vegas_Rebel
Posts: 327
Joined: Tue Sep 29, 2009 11:18 am

Re: who else is excited beyond belief for LS

Postby Vegas_Rebel » Wed Apr 28, 2010 8:11 pm

Reading through this thread, all I can think is that the legal markets in the big cities (LA, NY, Chi, etc.) must be much different than here. I've spoken to current law students, partners in the local market, and various other attorneys. The advice, from all of them, is that higher class rank is better, but even top 1/2 from the local T2 should be able to land a job.

If this is the job grinder that students in the huge markets are facing, I'm doubly glad that I'm staying local.

And, yes, I'm very excited.

honestabe84
Posts: 491
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2010 1:47 pm

Re: who else is excited beyond belief for LS

Postby honestabe84 » Wed Apr 28, 2010 10:32 pm

Vegas_Rebel wrote:Reading through this thread, all I can think is that the legal markets in the big cities (LA, NY, Chi, etc.) must be much different than here. I've spoken to current law students, partners in the local market, and various other attorneys. The advice, from all of them, is that higher class rank is better, but even top 1/2 from the local T2 should be able to land a job. [/b][/b]


This. Lets take NY for an example. Not only does it have a ton of law schools (many of which are outstanding), grads from great schools all over the country go there. The markets in states such as this are going to have a RIDICULOUSLY harder time getting a job than in a smaller market like Cleveland. In fact, I would say that some of the T-2 schools that have strong reputations seeking employment in their secondary market will have better prospects that many grads from top schools wishing to seek employment in NY.

It's weird because most of the attorney's in my city (secondary market) are not freaking out on nearly the same level as what would be expected in NY, LA, Chicago, etc. Don't get me wrong - the market in my city has obviously been hit hard by the recession, but it is evidently nothing compared to what some of these larger markets are experience.

User avatar
dlac
Posts: 45
Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2010 3:33 pm

Re: who else is excited beyond belief for LS

Postby dlac » Wed Apr 28, 2010 11:08 pm

This thread went from uplifting (read: corny) to downright depressing.

/wrists

Frank
Posts: 218
Joined: Sun Oct 19, 2008 8:25 pm

Re: who else is excited beyond belief for LS

Postby Frank » Wed Apr 28, 2010 11:23 pm

.
Last edited by Frank on Mon Sep 27, 2010 1:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

honestabe84
Posts: 491
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2010 1:47 pm

Re: who else is excited beyond belief for LS

Postby honestabe84 » Wed Apr 28, 2010 11:29 pm

Frank wrote:
honestabe84 wrote:
Vegas_Rebel wrote:Reading through this thread, all I can think is that the legal markets in the big cities (LA, NY, Chi, etc.) must be much different than here. I've spoken to current law students, partners in the local market, and various other attorneys. The advice, from all of them, is that higher class rank is better, but even top 1/2 from the local T2 should be able to land a job. [/b][/b]


This. Lets take NY for an example. Not only does it have a ton of law schools (many of which are outstanding), grads from great schools all over the country go there. The markets in states such as this are going to have a RIDICULOUSLY harder time getting a job than in a smaller market like Cleveland. In fact, I would say that some of the T-2 schools that have strong reputations seeking employment in their secondary market will have better prospects that many grads from top schools wishing to seek employment in NY.

It's weird because most of the attorney's in my city (secondary market) are not freaking out on nearly the same level as what would be expected in NY, LA, Chicago, etc. Don't get me wrong - the market in my city has obviously been hit hard by the recession, but it is evidently nothing compared to what some of these larger markets are experience.



You are sadly mistaken to think T14ers focus solely on NYC/LA/CITOWN BIGLAW. Or, for that matter, that we are not from areas outside these three cities. If you were raised in an area and just did not go to law school there, that is still a legit connection to the area.


I never said that T14ers focus solely on those big cities you mentioned. I'm saying that it's 10x more difficult to get a job there. Basically, a bunch of people flock to those cities in search of a 160k salary and those markets just become flooded.

honestabe84
Posts: 491
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2010 1:47 pm

Re: who else is excited beyond belief for LS

Postby honestabe84 » Wed Apr 28, 2010 11:32 pm

Frank wrote:
honestabe84 wrote:
Vegas_Rebel wrote:Reading through this thread, all I can think is that the legal markets in the big cities (LA, NY, Chi, etc.) must be much different than here. I've spoken to current law students, partners in the local market, and various other attorneys. The advice, from all of them, is that higher class rank is better, but even top 1/2 from the local T2 should be able to land a job. [/b][/b]


This. Lets take NY for an example. Not only does it have a ton of law schools (many of which are outstanding), grads from great schools all over the country go there. The markets in states such as this are going to have a RIDICULOUSLY harder time getting a job than in a smaller market like Cleveland. In fact, I would say that some of the T-2 schools that have strong reputations seeking employment in their secondary market will have better prospects that many grads from top schools wishing to seek employment in NY.

It's weird because most of the attorney's in my city (secondary market) are not freaking out on nearly the same level as what would be expected in NY, LA, Chicago, etc. Don't get me wrong - the market in my city has obviously been hit hard by the recession, but it is evidently nothing compared to what some of these larger markets are experience.



You are sadly mistaken to think T14ers focus solely on NYC/LA/CHITOWN BIGLAW. Or, for that matter, that we are not from areas outside these three cities. If you were raised in an area and just did not go to law school there, that is still a legit connection to the area. And, by the way, OCI firms are firms from all over the country. It isn't just these three cities. We had people from this past summer's OCI decide on Rochester, Buffalo, Delaware, Cleveland, etc., just to name a few 'regional' cities (or states).

You don't think a HLS grad is in a slightly better position for getting a job in, IDK, Kansas City if he/she is from Kansas City over the Kansas City Law grad? Concede me that, come on.


I'm not saying that. Of course a Harvard grad has a MUCH better shot. This is what I said: "...some of the grads from T-2 schools that have strong reputations seeking employment in their secondary market will have better prospects than many grads from top schools wishing to seek employment in NY."

Frank
Posts: 218
Joined: Sun Oct 19, 2008 8:25 pm

Re: who else is excited beyond belief for LS

Postby Frank » Wed Apr 28, 2010 11:39 pm

.
Last edited by Frank on Mon Sep 27, 2010 1:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

honestabe84
Posts: 491
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2010 1:47 pm

Re: who else is excited beyond belief for LS

Postby honestabe84 » Wed Apr 28, 2010 11:44 pm

Yes, but the firms in those big markets have 10000 applicants per open position while firms in mid-size markets only have 1000 applicants per open position. :)




Return to “Law School Admissions Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests