Saving money during law school - Extremes

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astro1819
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Re: Saving money during law school - Extremes

Postby astro1819 » Wed Apr 21, 2010 8:23 pm

A financial aid director assured me it was possible to live on ramen noodles for 3 years. Besides the fact that I vigorously deny this claim, I refuse to sacrifice 3 years of material happiness for a measly few dollars. Especially if you have any confidence at all in your ability to earn a livable salary after law school, why punish yourself during it?

I am a firm believer in moderate consumption smoothing. "[The life-cycle model] predicts...people borrowing against future earnings during their early study and working life when income is low, saving greatly during their most productive working years and consuming saved assets during retirement." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intertemporal_consumption

The phrase "live like a lawyer now and live like a student later; live like a student now and live like a lawyer later" is just ridiculous in my opinion. Why not live like a normal person throughout?

In fact, the empirical evidence suggests that people actually follow the old adage, living like a student now and living like a lawyer later, then living like a student when they're old because they were too foolish to smooth consumption by borrowing and saving.

"The main discrepancies between predicted and actual behaviour is that people drastically 'underconsume' early and late in their lifetime by failing to borrow against future earnings and not saving enough to adequately finance retirement incomes respectively. People also seem to 'overconsume' during their highest earning years" (also from wikipedia, for better or worse)

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ccs224
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Re: Saving money during law school - Extremes

Postby ccs224 » Wed Apr 21, 2010 8:32 pm

astro1819 wrote: Especially if you have any confidence at all in your ability to earn a livable salary after law school, why punish yourself during it?


Who would have this misguided belief?

astro1819
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Re: Saving money during law school - Extremes

Postby astro1819 » Wed Apr 21, 2010 8:36 pm

ccs224 wrote:
astro1819 wrote: Especially if you have any confidence at all in your ability to earn a livable salary after law school, why punish yourself during it?


Who would have this misguided belief?


Haha, I suppose it is a quite ridiculous assumption. Recommence eating Ramen noodles. For life.

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swc65
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Re: Saving money during law school - Extremes

Postby swc65 » Wed Apr 21, 2010 10:04 pm

astro1819 wrote:
ccs224 wrote:
astro1819 wrote: Especially if you have any confidence at all in your ability to earn a livable salary after law school, why punish yourself during it?


Who would have this misguided belief?


Haha, I suppose it is a quite ridiculous assumption. Recommence eating Ramen noodles. For life.



yeah but then you die 20 years early and have twenty fewer years to earn a salary! So you actually waste money by eating bad food.

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existenz
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Re: Saving money during law school - Extremes

Postby existenz » Wed Apr 21, 2010 11:03 pm

Go to UMich, buy one of those $1000 houses in Detroit, commute, save a shitload on rent.

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GordonBombay
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Re: Saving money during law school - Extremes

Postby GordonBombay » Wed Apr 21, 2010 11:04 pm

existenz wrote:Go to UMich, buy one of those $1000 houses in Detroit, commute, save a shitload on rent.


Actually they pay you to live in Detroit.

If you really wanna make bank during law school, use that 8k first time buyers credit in Detroit, prrrrrofit

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Ford Prefect
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Re: Saving money during law school - Extremes

Postby Ford Prefect » Wed Apr 21, 2010 11:22 pm

jks289 wrote:
TipTravHoot wrote:
jks289 wrote:My husband is a PhD candidate planning on teaching, which pays roughly 35K a year. We are going to try to live almost entirely off his salary and modest savings, depending on the city we end up in. Yikes.


This is pretty close to my situation. My girlfriend will (hopefully) have a K-12 teaching job next year and we hope to live off her salary.


What city are you living in? At the moment I am deposited at WUSTL. I think it is totally doable in St Louis. But if I get off a WL and we end up in a big city it seems a lot less likely.


My ex and I lived about 30 minutes west of STL and owned a house and raised two kids on a teacher's salary. It's totally doable. You might be able to find a reasonable place in the city (if you want). My first year teaching I lived in the same general area and was able to live off my lavish salary (~$19k).

I'll likely end up in Fayetteville, Arkansas next year, so I'm pretty confident I'll be able to live on very little money. I own my car outright and should have almost all my bills paid off before I leave. I'll probably borrow significantly more my first year than the others just to make sure, though. My biggest concern is cost of travel to go see my kids.

motiontodismiss
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Re: Saving money during law school - Extremes

Postby motiontodismiss » Thu Apr 22, 2010 12:41 am

nick637 wrote:what is everyones expected COL?

I hope to take out and live on roughly 12k. I'm gonna need your prayers


Depends on where I end up going for law school.

NYC=$3,000/month+cost of books
BOS/DC=$2,500/month+cost of books
East Coast-Other=$2,000/month+cost of books
Chicago=$1,750/month+cost of books
Upper Midwest-Other=$1,250/month+cost of books
South=$1,000/month+cost of books
California=planning to avoid like the plague
West coast-Other=no schools worth going to

CoL figures all-in. Few assumptions: cell-on family plan (doesn't come out of your pocket), most utilities paid by landlord, you don't get sick, you're on parents' health insurance during law school (add another $300/month if you need your own health insurance), in-unit laundry, no extravagant shopping or trips, no existing credit card or other revolving debt, single, no roommates.

Needless to say, there's no way I'm saving any money during law school.

Btw if you end up at UMich you could probably even buy a place in Ann Arbor for a little more than the cost of a luxury car.

farewelltoarms
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Re: Saving money during law school - Extremes

Postby farewelltoarms » Thu Apr 22, 2010 2:46 am

People who live on $80 or less of food each month are either

Petite asian women
Cancer Patients
Foolish

If you want to a moderately attractive body, you cannot eat ramen all day. I budgeted like a mofo in undergrad and I still was spending like 5 dollars a day on food.

Chicken leg quarters, eggs, whole milk, peanut butter, rice, bananas, parsley. Parsley has a shit ton of vitamins found in vegetables, bananas have fructose and vitamin c and all that jazz, rice is for carbohydrates, milk is for fats, peanut butter for polyunsaturated fats, chicken leg quarters and eggs for protein. Include vitamins and your set.

If anyone has a better maximal food budgeting ideas share please.

nuss3
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Re: Saving money during law school - Extremes

Postby nuss3 » Thu Apr 22, 2010 3:25 am

farewelltoarms wrote:People who live on $80 or less of food each month are either

Petite asian women
Cancer Patients
Foolish

If you want to a moderately attractive body, you cannot eat ramen all day. I budgeted like a mofo in undergrad and I still was spending like 5 dollars a day on food.

Chicken leg quarters, eggs, whole milk, peanut butter, rice, bananas, parsley. Parsley has a shit ton of vitamins found in vegetables, bananas have fructose and vitamin c and all that jazz, rice is for carbohydrates, milk is for fats, peanut butter for polyunsaturated fats, chicken leg quarters and eggs for protein. Include vitamins and your set.

If anyone has a better maximal food budgeting ideas share please.


pasta, salmon burgers from costco (frozen patties; 12 for $13 i think, cheap as hell, go well w/pasta), bananas, beans (buy in bulk, soak, cook yourself--never buy canned), brown rice (bulk), sweet potatoes (tons of nutrients/extremely cheap), and occasional tofu. you can also buy bulk yogurt for relatively cheap. PB (and bulk nuts in general, which are calorie/nutrient dense) is good, but don't buy bread--shit is empty calories and entirely unsatisfying. and take your vitamins! water alone to drink (either from tap or from a filter--don't waste $/environmental damage on bottled water).

brown rice and homecooked beans is probably the cheapest, relatively nutritious meal you can have.

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The Dan
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Re: Saving money during law school - Extremes

Postby The Dan » Thu Apr 22, 2010 9:15 am

motiontodismiss wrote:
nick637 wrote:what is everyones expected COL?

I hope to take out and live on roughly 12k. I'm gonna need your prayers


Depends on where I end up going for law school.

NYC=$3,000/month+cost of books
BOS/DC=$2,500/month+cost of books
East Coast-Other=$2,000/month+cost of books
Chicago=$1,750/month+cost of books
Upper Midwest-Other=$1,250/month+cost of books
South=$1,000/month+cost of books
California=planning to avoid like the plague
West coast-Other=no schools worth going to

CoL figures all-in. Few assumptions: cell-on family plan (doesn't come out of your pocket), most utilities paid by landlord, you don't get sick, you're on parents' health insurance during law school (add another $300/month if you need your own health insurance), in-unit laundry, no extravagant shopping or trips, no existing credit card or other revolving debt, single, no roommates.

Needless to say, there's no way I'm saving any money during law school.

Btw if you end up at UMich you could probably even buy a place in Ann Arbor for a little more than the cost of a luxury car.


So in Boston, DC, or NYC you plan on paying well over your school's estimate for COL? What kind of loans are you going to take out? Federal loans are only going to cover approximately the first $20k in living expenses, because that's usually what schools budget. $2500 per month over 9 months comes close, but $3000 per month comes out to at least $27k for the school year.

motiontodismiss
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Re: Saving money during law school - Extremes

Postby motiontodismiss » Thu Apr 22, 2010 9:19 am

The Dan wrote:
motiontodismiss wrote:
nick637 wrote:what is everyones expected COL?

I hope to take out and live on roughly 12k. I'm gonna need your prayers


Depends on where I end up going for law school.

NYC=$3,000/month+cost of books
BOS/DC=$2,500/month+cost of books
East Coast-Other=$2,000/month+cost of books
Chicago=$1,750/month+cost of books
Upper Midwest-Other=$1,250/month+cost of books
South=$1,000/month+cost of books
California=planning to avoid like the plague
West coast-Other=no schools worth going to

CoL figures all-in. Few assumptions: cell-on family plan (doesn't come out of your pocket), most utilities paid by landlord, you don't get sick, you're on parents' health insurance during law school (add another $300/month if you need your own health insurance), in-unit laundry, no extravagant shopping or trips, no existing credit card or other revolving debt, single, no roommates.

Needless to say, there's no way I'm saving any money during law school.

Btw if you end up at UMich you could probably even buy a place in Ann Arbor for a little more than the cost of a luxury car.


So in Boston, DC, or NYC you plan on paying well over your school's estimate for COL? What kind of loans are you going to take out? Federal loans are only going to cover approximately the first $20k in living expenses, because that's usually what schools budget. $2500 per month over 9 months comes close, but $3000 per month comes out to at least $27k for the school year.


I'm being realistic. You can't realistically find an apartment that's cheaper than $1,200/month in Manhattan...unless you go out to Inwood. A more realistic range is $1,500-$2k, probably closer to $2k. Maybe one could live out in Jersey City and live on $800-$1k for rent, but if you have a late night study group or something, you might end up SOL, stuck in Manhattan for the night. The Northeast corridor is an expensive place to live.

I'll probably get stoned to death here for this, but parents are covering tuition and CoL. Graduating with no debt FTW

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The Dan
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Re: Saving money during law school - Extremes

Postby The Dan » Thu Apr 22, 2010 9:30 am

motiontodismiss wrote:
The Dan wrote:
motiontodismiss wrote:
nick637 wrote:what is everyones expected COL?

I hope to take out and live on roughly 12k. I'm gonna need your prayers


Depends on where I end up going for law school.

NYC=$3,000/month+cost of books
BOS/DC=$2,500/month+cost of books
East Coast-Other=$2,000/month+cost of books
Chicago=$1,750/month+cost of books
Upper Midwest-Other=$1,250/month+cost of books
South=$1,000/month+cost of books
California=planning to avoid like the plague
West coast-Other=no schools worth going to

CoL figures all-in. Few assumptions: cell-on family plan (doesn't come out of your pocket), most utilities paid by landlord, you don't get sick, you're on parents' health insurance during law school (add another $300/month if you need your own health insurance), in-unit laundry, no extravagant shopping or trips, no existing credit card or other revolving debt, single, no roommates.

Needless to say, there's no way I'm saving any money during law school.

Btw if you end up at UMich you could probably even buy a place in Ann Arbor for a little more than the cost of a luxury car.


So in Boston, DC, or NYC you plan on paying well over your school's estimate for COL? What kind of loans are you going to take out? Federal loans are only going to cover approximately the first $20k in living expenses, because that's usually what schools budget. $2500 per month over 9 months comes close, but $3000 per month comes out to at least $27k for the school year.


I'm being realistic. You can't realistically find an apartment that's cheaper than $1,200/month in Manhattan...unless you go out to Inwood. A more realistic range is $1,500-$2k, probably closer to $2k. Maybe one could live out in Jersey City and live on $800-$1k for rent, but if you have a late night study group or something, you might end up SOL, stuck in Manhattan for the night. The Northeast corridor is an expensive place to live.

I'll probably get stoned to death here for this, but parents are covering tuition and CoL. Graduating with no debt FTW


I don't know too much about the Manhattan market, but it's definitely possible to live more cheaply than that in Boston. I plan on being well within the COL budget.

astro1819
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Re: Saving money during law school - Extremes

Postby astro1819 » Thu Apr 22, 2010 9:39 am

motiontodismiss wrote:
I'm being realistic. You can't realistically find an apartment that's cheaper than $1,200/month in Manhattan...unless you go out to Inwood. A more realistic range is $1,500-$2k, probably closer to $2k. Maybe one could live out in Jersey City and live on $800-$1k for rent, but if you have a late night study group or something, you might end up SOL, stuck in Manhattan for the night. The Northeast corridor is an expensive place to live.

I'll probably get stoned to death here for this, but parents are covering tuition and CoL. Graduating with no debt FTW


I pay $645 a month in DC for a decent, large, and historical rowhouse that is a 10 min. bike ride/20 min metro from Georgetown Law. The options are there, if you're looking. I won't rail on you too much, but I can't believe that your parents are willing to throw down $1200+ for a place to live in DC! If you were spending your own hard-earned cash or loans, you'd find a way to find cheaper places to rent while in school.

creatinganalt
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Re: Saving money during law school - Extremes

Postby creatinganalt » Thu Apr 22, 2010 9:43 am

I really want to live cheaply but may be in Boston and am scared.

How cheaply can I live? Am hoping to keep it to 12 - 13k. Planning to be in a share house in Somerville and seeing good things for $400 - $600 ish. Would like to keep rent&utilities under $600 a month. That then leaves me $150 dollars max a month for food. The rest would go on health insurance and toothbrushes and things which are 2 - 3k a year.

All the food ideas are credited. Also buy a couple of bags of frozen veg and just add a cup to EVERYTHING to bulk it out. Bring (do not buy at school) lots of spices and herbs to add flavor. They cost a shit ton to buy and I'm bringing them from home - not like parsley which will go off. Like chilli powder and stock cubes and cinnamon and honey and black pepper. I think you need something sweet just to stop from going mad so I will buy a big box of pancake mix and keep it for emergencies. Also buy lots of oatmeal (big flakes not crushed). It's a good breakfast but also if you buy some plain yogurt and stir it in, overnight it swells up to a gorgeous snack. Or can add peanut butter or honey.

When ever you see fruit on sale, buy it, chop it up and freeze it. Then you can add to yogurt or pancakes.

Think if I can shave 30k off the cost of law school it is probably worth it.

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BriaTharen
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Re: Saving money during law school - Extremes

Postby BriaTharen » Thu Apr 22, 2010 9:59 am

nuss3 wrote:
farewelltoarms wrote:People who live on $80 or less of food each month are either

Petite asian women
Cancer Patients
Foolish

If you want to a moderately attractive body, you cannot eat ramen all day. I budgeted like a mofo in undergrad and I still was spending like 5 dollars a day on food.

Chicken leg quarters, eggs, whole milk, peanut butter, rice, bananas, parsley. Parsley has a shit ton of vitamins found in vegetables, bananas have fructose and vitamin c and all that jazz, rice is for carbohydrates, milk is for fats, peanut butter for polyunsaturated fats, chicken leg quarters and eggs for protein. Include vitamins and your set.

If anyone has a better maximal food budgeting ideas share please.


pasta, salmon burgers from costco (frozen patties; 12 for $13 i think, cheap as hell, go well w/pasta), bananas, beans (buy in bulk, soak, cook yourself--never buy canned), brown rice (bulk), sweet potatoes (tons of nutrients/extremely cheap), and occasional tofu. you can also buy bulk yogurt for relatively cheap. PB (and bulk nuts in general, which are calorie/nutrient dense) is good, but don't buy bread--shit is empty calories and entirely unsatisfying. and take your vitamins! water alone to drink (either from tap or from a filter--don't waste $/environmental damage on bottled water).

brown rice and homecooked beans is probably the cheapest, relatively nutritious meal you can have.



I disagree on bread- if you buy whole grain/wheat bread, not Bunny bread, then you can make a pretty satisfying sandwich as well as get a good dose of fiber (which will keep you full for longer).

One of the things that saved money for me when I was in undergrad was making huge meals on Sundays, then freezing them. Veggie soup and chicken and sausage gumbo are relatively easy and cheap to make, as well as make a large amount that you can freeze. Better than buying a bunch of soup cans.

waxloaf
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Re: Saving money during law school - Extremes

Postby waxloaf » Thu Apr 22, 2010 10:14 am

JessicaTiger wrote:
I disagree on bread- if you buy whole grain/wheat bread, not Bunny bread, then you can make a pretty satisfying sandwich as well as get a good dose of fiber (which will keep you full for longer).

One of the things that saved money for me when I was in undergrad was making huge meals on Sundays, then freezing them. Veggie soup and chicken and sausage gumbo are relatively easy and cheap to make, as well as make a large amount that you can freeze. Better than buying a bunch of soup cans.


I disagree on bread but agree on soups/stews/gumbos, make that stuff in the crockpot and eat it all week

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TheBigMediocre
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Re: Saving money during law school - Extremes

Postby TheBigMediocre » Thu Apr 22, 2010 10:28 am

JessicaTiger wrote:
nuss3 wrote:
farewelltoarms wrote:People who live on $80 or less of food each month are either

Petite asian women
Cancer Patients
Foolish

If you want to a moderately attractive body, you cannot eat ramen all day. I budgeted like a mofo in undergrad and I still was spending like 5 dollars a day on food.

Chicken leg quarters, eggs, whole milk, peanut butter, rice, bananas, parsley. Parsley has a shit ton of vitamins found in vegetables, bananas have fructose and vitamin c and all that jazz, rice is for carbohydrates, milk is for fats, peanut butter for polyunsaturated fats, chicken leg quarters and eggs for protein. Include vitamins and your set.

If anyone has a better maximal food budgeting ideas share please.


pasta, salmon burgers from costco (frozen patties; 12 for $13 i think, cheap as hell, go well w/pasta), bananas, beans (buy in bulk, soak, cook yourself--never buy canned), brown rice (bulk), sweet potatoes (tons of nutrients/extremely cheap), and occasional tofu. you can also buy bulk yogurt for relatively cheap. PB (and bulk nuts in general, which are calorie/nutrient dense) is good, but don't buy bread--shit is empty calories and entirely unsatisfying. and take your vitamins! water alone to drink (either from tap or from a filter--don't waste $/environmental damage on bottled water).

brown rice and homecooked beans is probably the cheapest, relatively nutritious meal you can have.



I disagree on bread- if you buy whole grain/wheat bread, not Bunny bread, then you can make a pretty satisfying sandwich as well as get a good dose of fiber (which will keep you full for longer).

One of the things that saved money for me when I was in undergrad was making huge meals on Sundays, then freezing them. Veggie soup and chicken and sausage gumbo are relatively easy and cheap to make, as well as make a large amount that you can freeze. Better than buying a bunch of soup cans.


Can you guys point me in the direct for these mass-scale recipes that remain healthy? I would have no problem spending a few hours on Sunday prepping and then freezing a week-long meal. I can eat the same thing everyday for lunch no problem.

waxloaf
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Re: Saving money during law school - Extremes

Postby waxloaf » Thu Apr 22, 2010 10:29 am

TheBigMediocre wrote:
Can you guys point me in the direct for these mass-scale recipes that remain healthy? I would have no problem spending a few hours on Sunday prepping and then freezing a week-long meal. I can eat the same thing everyday for lunch no problem.


any veggies you want, some sort of meat, a little water to cover, cook for a long ass time, season to taste, and... you've got yourself a stew baby!

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nick637
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Re: Saving money during law school - Extremes

Postby nick637 » Thu Apr 22, 2010 10:31 am

Ok so I'm looking at crock pots to buy. Anyone know what size I should get? I hope to make one meal that lasts several days

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Ford Prefect
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Re: Saving money during law school - Extremes

Postby Ford Prefect » Thu Apr 22, 2010 10:32 am

You don't really need something that's "mass-scale". Just enough to feed a regular family.

I get a lot of my recipes (or ideas, at least), here:

http://www.foodnetwork.com/recipes-and- ... index.html

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j.wellington
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Re: Saving money during law school - Extremes

Postby j.wellington » Thu Apr 22, 2010 10:34 am

I'm going to treat it like I'm a single mother raising a kid on a cashier's salary. Plenty of people get by on next to nothing, so there's no reason I can't.

Eating cheaply doesn't have to mean eating poorly or relying on ramen. There are plenty of decent meals you can prepare with simple, inexpensive foods. So long as I'm not eating out all the time I don't see that part being a problem. I also don't plan on spending much money on entertainment, and the place I'm going to school has plenty of free recreation options that I'm into. I'm not happy about debt in general, but keeping down COL is one thing I can do.

waxloaf
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Re: Saving money during law school - Extremes

Postby waxloaf » Thu Apr 22, 2010 10:35 am

nick637 wrote:Ok so I'm looking at crock pots to buy. Anyone know what size I should get? I hope to make one meal that lasts several days


6 or 8 quarts should do just fine, make sure you get one with a removable crock (most have these nowadays) for easy cleaning. If you are gonna be in your place for long periods of time you could save money by going to a yard sale and buying an old stew or stock pot with a lid and do it on the stove.

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Ford Prefect
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Re: Saving money during law school - Extremes

Postby Ford Prefect » Thu Apr 22, 2010 10:41 am

waxloaf wrote:
nick637 wrote:Ok so I'm looking at crock pots to buy. Anyone know what size I should get? I hope to make one meal that lasts several days


6 or 8 quarts should do just fine, make sure you get one with a removable crock (most have these nowadays) for easy cleaning. If you are gonna be in your place for long periods of time you could save money by going to a yard sale and buying an old stew or stock pot with a lid and do it on the stove.


Or go "shopping" at your parent's/relative's/friend's place. Ask around and you'll probably be able to find a lot of the cooking (and other various living) items you need, and free. It won't always be the case, but you probably know someone who has a perfectly good, barely used crockpot sitting around that they do not need.

I'm waiting for someone to offer me a 40" (or bigger) LCD TV. I'm sure this will happen.

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clintonius
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Re: Saving money during law school - Extremes

Postby clintonius » Thu Apr 22, 2010 10:43 am

motiontodismiss wrote:
The Dan wrote:
motiontodismiss wrote:
nick637 wrote:what is everyones expected COL?

I hope to take out and live on roughly 12k. I'm gonna need your prayers


Depends on where I end up going for law school.

NYC=$3,000/month+cost of books
BOS/DC=$2,500/month+cost of books
East Coast-Other=$2,000/month+cost of books
Chicago=$1,750/month+cost of books
Upper Midwest-Other=$1,250/month+cost of books
South=$1,000/month+cost of books
California=planning to avoid like the plague
West coast-Other=no schools worth going to

CoL figures all-in. Few assumptions: cell-on family plan (doesn't come out of your pocket), most utilities paid by landlord, you don't get sick, you're on parents' health insurance during law school (add another $300/month if you need your own health insurance), in-unit laundry, no extravagant shopping or trips, no existing credit card or other revolving debt, single, no roommates.

Needless to say, there's no way I'm saving any money during law school.

Btw if you end up at UMich you could probably even buy a place in Ann Arbor for a little more than the cost of a luxury car.


So in Boston, DC, or NYC you plan on paying well over your school's estimate for COL? What kind of loans are you going to take out? Federal loans are only going to cover approximately the first $20k in living expenses, because that's usually what schools budget. $2500 per month over 9 months comes close, but $3000 per month comes out to at least $27k for the school year.


I'm being realistic. You can't realistically find an apartment that's cheaper than $1,200/month in Manhattan...unless you go out to Inwood. A more realistic range is $1,500-$2k, probably closer to $2k. Maybe one could live out in Jersey City and live on $800-$1k for rent, but if you have a late night study group or something, you might end up SOL, stuck in Manhattan for the night. The Northeast corridor is an expensive place to live.

I'll probably get stoned to death here for this, but parents are covering tuition and CoL. Graduating with no debt FTW

I know people who have gotten apartments for $650 in Manhattan. Of course, that's price per room. I lived in Newark (a 25-minute ride from the WTC) and paid $475 for one of three bedrooms in a huge apartment. Also, the PATH train runs to New Jersey 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. You're not ever going to be stuck in Manhattan for a night.




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