Not sure where this question goes but - Shy Lawyers?

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byunbee
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Re: Not sure where this question goes but - Shy Lawyers?

Postby byunbee » Tue Apr 20, 2010 7:42 pm

Renzo wrote:
vanwinkle wrote:
Renzo wrote:Shyness can be overcome. You just need to make a conscious effort at it, and go by degrees. Start with approaching strangers at coffee shops, etc. Work your way up to public speaking engagements.

This is kind of funny, since I'm better now at public speaking than I am at speaking to strangers at coffee shops.

That actually sort of makes sense. You can usually be pretty sure that a crowd will at least be polite and listen, but there's always the possibility a stranger will be a jerk.


Not necessarily, you can say something stupid in front of a large crowd. :(

Hey-O
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Re: Not sure where this question goes but - Shy Lawyers?

Postby Hey-O » Tue Apr 20, 2010 7:48 pm

I used to so painfully shy. Terribly shy. Then I did debate and public speaking.

Biggest piece of advice: FACE YOUR FEARS.

Don't be afraid to fail miserably. In fact, its good if you fail, because then you won't have to fear it. The Earth didn't swallow you whole. No one chased you with pitchforks. The worst that can happen is that you look like an idiot. Okay. Life continues. No babies killed, no trains wrecked, and then just move on. Once I gave myself permission to fail, to look like a moron if that's what happened then I didn't fear failure so much. I could relax.

And the more you do it the better it gets. Debate, improv, toastmasters, anything that gets you up in front of people.

smalltown
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Re: Not sure where this question goes but - Shy Lawyers?

Postby smalltown » Tue Apr 20, 2010 7:54 pm

I wouldn't worry too much about it. There are so many areas of law that don't require you to speak that often. You'd be surprised at how many appellate lawyers don't do well speaking publicly because the bulk of that job is the briefs they file. By the time they to get to an oral argument, the judges already have a draft opinion most of the time. There rarely is the type of argument where you're arguing with someone at the other table. If you're calm and know the material, you don't have to worry about how you sound. It's just what you say, for the most part. Hardly anyone outside of criminal law goes to trial anymore, and those jobs are taken by people with specific skills. The most important overall skills, at least what I have seen, is effective research and making solid arguments. Sounding smooth may help at trial, but juries can also see through bullshit pretty quickly. Your arguments, in several areas of law, including civil litigation, can be developed through how you write complaints, depositions, briefs, and all other types of documents you will soon learn about.

As for the social aspects of the job, it's true it helps to be social to get a job. People like myself who aren't intellectual giants kind of need to be nice, approachable people to get jobs.

Renzo
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Re: Not sure where this question goes but - Shy Lawyers?

Postby Renzo » Tue Apr 20, 2010 8:13 pm

byunbee wrote:
Renzo wrote:
vanwinkle wrote:
Renzo wrote:Shyness can be overcome. You just need to make a conscious effort at it, and go by degrees. Start with approaching strangers at coffee shops, etc. Work your way up to public speaking engagements.

This is kind of funny, since I'm better now at public speaking than I am at speaking to strangers at coffee shops.

That actually sort of makes sense. You can usually be pretty sure that a crowd will at least be polite and listen, but there's always the possibility a stranger will be a jerk.


Not necessarily, you can say something stupid in front of a large crowd. :(

True, but you'd have to do worse than make slip-up get booed or have people walk out or some such thing.

ScaredWorkedBored
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Re: Not sure where this question goes but - Shy Lawyers?

Postby ScaredWorkedBored » Tue Apr 20, 2010 11:14 pm

At least 10% of any T25 school is some version of Aspergers. And that's on the low end; almost everyone in law school was some sort of "nerd." Something like over a third of all practicing lawyers test out as introverts.

Other than opening and closing statements to a jury, being a natural actor isn't really required or even particularly helpful. Even most litigation has little to do with oral advocacy in front of an audience.

Now if you can't be confrontational in communications or get afraid to open up e-mails, that's an entirely different issue.

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MF248
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Re: Not sure where this question goes but - Shy Lawyers?

Postby MF248 » Tue Apr 20, 2010 11:18 pm

traehekat wrote:
Leeroy Jenkins wrote:
melanieB wrote:oh come on! Plus, I don't go to bars. :shock: :lol:

public speaking isn't a pillar of lawyering.


However, going to bars is.


LOLZ

hank44
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Re: Not sure where this question goes but - Shy Lawyers?

Postby hank44 » Thu Apr 29, 2010 12:24 pm

OP, you have to be realistic. And don't dismiss this outright before at least admitting there is some truth here. If by "public advocate" you mean that you'd like to be a legal aid attorney or something like that - representing those that need help the most...you won't be able to have much of an impact, not in a chaotic courtroom.

Like everyone is saying: sure if you can work at it and get over it, or if you dont plan on being in that type of public setting much, then great. But there are other ways to help people, which essentially is what you seem to want to do (which is great). Unfortunately, being a lawyer (i dont mean getting a JD, I mean being a GOOD advocate for needy clients like you indicated) does require a certain skill set - if you don't buy that, check out some criminal court proceedings in a big city and youll know what i mean. Stick with the desire to help people, but rethink the specific lawyering jobs you alluded to. Remember, the people you seek to help will all be so, so different - culturally and in every other way you can think of...and most wont even appreciate what you do for them in the short term. Its a thankless job, being a legal aid attorney or public defender. You have to have thick skin and be able to limit how much shit you let people give you, including your own clients.

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dlac
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Re: Not sure where this question goes but - Shy Lawyers?

Postby dlac » Thu Apr 29, 2010 12:32 pm

Get a job that forces you to talk to people--i.e. retail or food service. Not only will it teach you how to overcome shyness, it'll teach you how to handle stupid b.s.

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Dustin.
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Re: Not sure where this question goes but - Shy Lawyers?

Postby Dustin. » Thu Apr 29, 2010 12:40 pm

dlac wrote:Get a job that forces you to talk to people--i.e. retail or food service. Not only will it teach you how to overcome shyness, it'll teach you how to handle stupid b.s.


Totally agree.

Get a job waiting tables. You will meet and talk to all kinds of different people. Also, you make pretty decent money.

I did this for a few years and now I have absolutely no fear of approaching/talking to anyone.

Good luck.

vikspeed
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Re: Not sure where this question goes but - Shy Lawyers?

Postby vikspeed » Thu Apr 29, 2010 12:50 pm

dlac wrote:Get a job that forces you to talk to people--i.e. retail or food service. Not only will it teach you how to overcome shyness, it'll teach you how to handle stupid b.s.


I totally agree with this. I was a pretty shy dude out of grad school, and I still have my moments. Nonetheless, I've worked retail delivery for 2 years, and I am not at all the same person anymore. It's true that continual exposure to your fear will lessen its control over your life. You'll also find that people aren't as intimidating or as judgmental as you might suppose, and many suffer from similar fears. Taking hold of your fear is what sets you apart--and to them, makes you special.

Also, as others have said, practice makes perfect indeed.

I will add one other thing. It wouldn't hurt to find someone who is the complete opposite of you and hang out with them. My closest co-worker was my complete opposite, and he helped strengthen my weaknesses and vice versa.

03121202698008
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Re: Not sure where this question goes but - Shy Lawyers?

Postby 03121202698008 » Thu Apr 29, 2010 1:09 pm

Take a Dale Carnegie class. They are designed for people just like you.

motiontodismiss
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Re: Not sure where this question goes but - Shy Lawyers?

Postby motiontodismiss » Thu Apr 29, 2010 4:13 pm

ScaredWorkedBored wrote:At least 10% of any T25 school is some version of Aspergers. And that's on the low end; almost everyone in law school was some sort of "nerd." Something like over a third of all practicing lawyers test out as introverts.

Other than opening and closing statements to a jury, being a natural actor isn't really required or even particularly helpful. Even most litigation has little to do with oral advocacy in front of an audience.

Now if you can't be confrontational in communications or get afraid to open up e-mails, that's an entirely different issue.


That's not surprising. Anyway, I thought it was 2/3 of practicing lawyers that tested introvert.

SBimmer
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Re: Not sure where this question goes but - Shy Lawyers?

Postby SBimmer » Thu Apr 29, 2010 4:22 pm

jks289 wrote:
melanieB wrote:I don't go to bars. :shock: :lol:


Join Toastmasters or other public speaking groups. Practice is how you get comfortable. Law school is going to train you how to be a lawyer, including speaking if you take advantage of what is offered. Join moot court, join the Law School musical, force yourself to try things that seem awful. If at the end of school you still HATE public speaking, then there are plenty of paths in the law that don't involve being a courtroom. Good luck.



+1 Particularly, http://www.toastmasters.org - It's simply repetition that help you improve. No pun intended, but you can NEVER teach one to swim if they don't jump in the pool. Jump in...you won't drown.

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A'nold
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Re: Not sure where this question goes but - Shy Lawyers?

Postby A'nold » Thu Apr 29, 2010 4:32 pm

OP, I am a law student and we just got through appellate briefs and oral arguments. We barely had to prepare for the oral arguments and spent like 2 freaking months pouring into this brief non-stop. I stayed up for like 36 straight hours putting the finishing touches on it b/f it was due. The oral argument was worth only like 5% of the grade and took like an hour to prepare for. But guess what students were most worried about and asked questions about? That's right, the oral argument.

My opponent was a very outgoing guy. His legs behind the podium were shaking so hard I just could not figure out how he hadn't fallen down. I've never seen somebody shake so hard. My friend, a very outgoing and seemingly confident guy, spent like 5 minutes trying to remember his opening lines and stopped and continued w/ his voice cracking 5 + times. Everyone is nervous during this type of stuff. You'll do fine.

thisguy456
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Re: Not sure where this question goes but - Shy Lawyers?

Postby thisguy456 » Thu Apr 29, 2010 4:33 pm

For one, being shy is alright. It's just one of many personality traits. The type-A world we live in might not have much use for it, but it's perfectly alright to be shy. Like everyone else, I would try to put yourself in front of as many people, or do some type of public speaking course. I wouldn't necessarily expect shyness to go away entirely--it's not as easy as some people are making it--but practice will at least better prepare you to be a public speaker. I'm shy, and I hated public speaking. It's still a nervous proposition now, but after public speaking courses I know I'm much better at it. I don't think I'll ever jump at the chance of speaking in front of peers or a large crowd, but at least I have the confidence in knowing that with the right preparation I'm not half bad, and that's all that I can ask for.

Anne Saxton
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Re: Not sure where this question goes but - Shy Lawyers?

Postby Anne Saxton » Sat Feb 14, 2015 1:41 am

deleted

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eliminatorjr
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Re: Not sure where this question goes but - Shy Lawyers?

Postby eliminatorjr » Sat Feb 14, 2015 2:49 am

Anne Saxton wrote:A lawyer doesn't have to be shy as he has to deal with a lot of complications that can be involved in a case. A good lawyer is passionate about his job and represents his/her client with full expertise. A divorce lawyer, especially needs to have all the tricks and skills needed to shift the case in his client's favor.


+1

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lacrossebrother
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Re: Not sure where this question goes but - Shy Lawyers?

Postby lacrossebrother » Sat Feb 14, 2015 3:03 am

Umm spam...and report to bar?

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KingDongKong
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Re: Not sure where this question goes but - Shy Lawyers?

Postby KingDongKong » Sat Feb 14, 2015 3:18 am

I can't believe that nobody's pointed out that going to CUNY will probably hurt OP's chances of being a lawyer more than being shy will.

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PeanutsNJam
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Re: Not sure where this question goes but - Shy Lawyers?

Postby PeanutsNJam » Sat Feb 14, 2015 8:12 am

ScaredWorkedBored wrote:At least 10% of any T25 school is some version of Aspergers. And that's on the low end; almost everyone in law school was some sort of "nerd." Something like over a third of all practicing lawyers test out as introverts.

Other than opening and closing statements to a jury, being a natural actor isn't really required or even particularly helpful. Even most litigation has little to do with oral advocacy in front of an audience.

Now if you can't be confrontational in communications or get afraid to open up e-mails, that's an entirely different issue.


This post.

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TheSpanishMain
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Re: Not sure where this question goes but - Shy Lawyers?

Postby TheSpanishMain » Sat Feb 14, 2015 10:32 am

KingDongKong wrote:I can't believe that nobody's pointed out that going to CUNY will probably hurt OP's chances of being a lawyer more than being shy will.


TLS was a very different place five years ago. Also, OP ended up at American, presumably at sticker. Poor girl.




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