% of prestigious undergrads in LS

(Applications Advice, Letters of Recommendation . . . )
User avatar
ConMan345
Posts: 577
Joined: Tue Sep 29, 2009 1:08 pm

Re: % of prestigious undergrads in LS

Postby ConMan345 » Tue Apr 20, 2010 6:20 pm

violinst wrote:
ConMan345 wrote:
violinst wrote:
Well, for Yale Law, you at least need to work your butt off to get a high LSAT score, hence a fairer game.


Hmm, this seems to be a bit of a shaky conclusion.


I know what you mean.


lawl.

But seriously, are you saying that having to work hard makes it fairer, getting a high LSAT score makes it fairer, or, more generally, the use of the LSAT makes it fairer? In any case, I think it's a fallacy to say that a 3.8 at HYPS works less hard than/is not as smart as a 3.8 at XYZ State. You could argue, actually, that grade inflation at top institution makes GPAs more like the LSAT rather than less.

User avatar
violinst
Posts: 230
Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2010 4:23 pm

Re: % of prestigious undergrads in LS

Postby violinst » Tue Apr 20, 2010 6:25 pm

ConMan345 wrote:
violinst wrote:
ConMan345 wrote:
violinst wrote:
Well, for Yale Law, you at least need to work your butt off to get a high LSAT score, hence a fairer game.


Hmm, this seems to be a bit of a shaky conclusion.


I know what you mean.


lawl.

But seriously, are you saying that having to work hard makes it fairer, getting a high LSAT score makes it fairer, or, more generally, the use of the LSAT makes it fairer? In any case, I think it's a fallacy to say that a 3.8 at HYPS works less hard than/is not as smart as a 3.8 at XYZ State. You could argue, actually, that grade inflation at top institution makes GPAs more like the LSAT rather than less.


LSAT is a fairer game.

From my perspective, I got into two of the top institutions with grade inflation ( 8) )at the time but decided to go to my LAC. Little did I know that the latter had a 2.9 curve. So...

User avatar
MrKappus
Posts: 1685
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2009 2:46 am

Re: % of prestigious undergrads in LS

Postby MrKappus » Tue Apr 20, 2010 6:31 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
CordeliusX wrote:The worst was this guy who had silk-screened for himself a "top dawg" shirt, and the back said "#1 GPA in XYZ College graduating class"... and I later learned that he was getting requests from other students there for their own shirts.

Psyche. :mrgreen:


Jokes on him, they still end up at the same school.


your inferiority complex is showing.

User avatar
ConMan345
Posts: 577
Joined: Tue Sep 29, 2009 1:08 pm

Re: % of prestigious undergrads in LS

Postby ConMan345 » Tue Apr 20, 2010 6:32 pm

violinst wrote:
ConMan345 wrote:
violinst wrote:
lawl.

But seriously, are you saying that having to work hard makes it fairer, getting a high LSAT score makes it fairer, or, more generally, the use of the LSAT makes it fairer? In any case, I think it's a fallacy to say that a 3.8 at HYPS works less hard than/is not as smart as a 3.8 at XYZ State. You could argue, actually, that grade inflation at top institution makes GPAs more like the LSAT rather than less.


LSAT is a fairer game.

From my perspective, I got into two of the top institutions with grade inflation ( 8) )at the time but decided to go to my LAC. Little did I know that the latter had a 2.9 curve. So...


Yeah, I'd be upset as well, haha. Reed, I presume?

From my perspective, LAC are claustrophobically small.

User avatar
violinst
Posts: 230
Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2010 4:23 pm

Re: % of prestigious undergrads in LS

Postby violinst » Tue Apr 20, 2010 6:43 pm

ConMan345 wrote:
violinst wrote:
ConMan345 wrote:
violinst wrote:
lawl.

But seriously, are you saying that having to work hard makes it fairer, getting a high LSAT score makes it fairer, or, more generally, the use of the LSAT makes it fairer? In any case, I think it's a fallacy to say that a 3.8 at HYPS works less hard than/is not as smart as a 3.8 at XYZ State. You could argue, actually, that grade inflation at top institution makes GPAs more like the LSAT rather than less.


LSAT is a fairer game.

From my perspective, I got into two of the top institutions with grade inflation ( 8) )at the time but decided to go to my LAC. Little did I know that the latter had a 2.9 curve. So...


Yeah, I'd be upset as well, haha. Reed, I presume?

From my perspective, LAC are claustrophobically small.


No. But what happened to Reed? I just checked its ranking. 49! Not even on the first TWO pages of the USNWR ranking! It was much higher 10 years ago (oops, I am old).

I love my LAC though. No regret here at all.

"clasutrophobically small" -- I may choose Cornell exactly for this reason.
Last edited by violinst on Tue Apr 20, 2010 6:55 pm, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
dutchstriker
Posts: 276
Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 3:15 pm

Re: % of prestigious undergrads in LS

Postby dutchstriker » Tue Apr 20, 2010 6:43 pm

They had a guest list at the HLS ASW. I actually counted up all the schools because I had a 30 hour bus ride back home.

Of the 243 students at the ASW, 150 were from either a top 10 LAC or top 25 national university (according to USNWR). 65 of those were HYPS. Most of the remainders were recognizable schools probably in the top 50. Someone did go to Sonoma State, though.

User avatar
im_blue
Posts: 3276
Joined: Sun Apr 12, 2009 3:53 am

Re: % of prestigious undergrads in LS

Postby im_blue » Tue Apr 20, 2010 7:05 pm

Both HLS and YLS have about 40% Ivy grads and another ~10% from Stanford/Berkeley.
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=48746

Rawlsian
Posts: 387
Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2009 3:53 pm

Re: % of prestigious undergrads in LS

Postby Rawlsian » Tue Apr 20, 2010 7:14 pm

ConMan345 wrote:
violinst wrote:
ConMan345 wrote:
violinst wrote:
Well, for Yale Law, you at least need to work your butt off to get a high LSAT score, hence a fairer game.


Hmm, this seems to be a bit of a shaky conclusion.


I know what you mean.


lawl.

But seriously, are you saying that having to work hard makes it fairer, getting a high LSAT score makes it fairer, or, more generally, the use of the LSAT makes it fairer? In any case, I think it's a fallacy to say that a 3.8 at HYPS works less hard than/is not as smart as a 3.8 at XYZ State. You could argue, actually, that grade inflation at top institution makes GPAs more like the LSAT rather than less.


There are studies out there that control for SAT/ACT scores, and still find private school grades significantly more inflated than those at public schools.

User avatar
whitman
Posts: 819
Joined: Tue Nov 17, 2009 4:08 am

Re: % of prestigious undergrads in LS

Postby whitman » Tue Apr 20, 2010 10:21 pm

To the person that asked about top publics: they are generally considered Berkeley, Michigan, UVA, UCLA, UNC. There are other great publics, of course, but those are the five that are considered elite.

User avatar
crackberry
Posts: 3252
Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2009 3:23 pm

Re: % of prestigious undergrads in LS

Postby crackberry » Tue Apr 20, 2010 10:23 pm

whitman wrote:To the person that asked about top publics: they are generally considered Berkeley, Michigan, UVA, UCLA, UNC. There are other great publics, of course, but those are the five that are considered elite.

To put UNC in that tier is to do a serious disservice to the other four schools in that list.

I grant you that UNC is a Top 5 large public, but it is not in the same league as Berkeley, Michigan, UVA and UCLA.

User avatar
OperaSoprano
Posts: 4410
Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2008 1:54 am

Re: % of prestigious undergrads in LS

Postby OperaSoprano » Tue Apr 20, 2010 10:27 pm

dutchstriker wrote:They had a guest list at the HLS ASW. I actually counted up all the schools because I had a 30 hour bus ride back home.

Of the 243 students at the ASW, 150 were from either a top 10 LAC or top 25 national university (according to USNWR). 65 of those were HYPS. Most of the remainders were recognizable schools probably in the top 50. Someone did go to Sonoma State, though.


TBH, this is the case up and down the law school rankings. Fordham is stuffed with Columbia, Cornell and Penn grads (though also a lot of NYU and Fordham UG). Conspicuously absent: other people who attended SUNY schools. Seriously, I think I know one person. God knows what they all think about me.

User avatar
prezidentv8
Posts: 2821
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2008 5:33 am

Re: % of prestigious undergrads in LS

Postby prezidentv8 » Tue Apr 20, 2010 10:30 pm

dutchstriker wrote:They had a guest list at the HLS ASW. I actually counted up all the schools because I had a 30 hour bus ride back home.

Of the 243 students at the ASW, 150 were from either a top 10 LAC or top 25 national university (according to USNWR). 65 of those were HYPS. Most of the remainders were recognizable schools probably in the top 50. Someone did go to Sonoma State, though.


Holy crap.

Who?!

User avatar
kdw94780
Posts: 147
Joined: Mon May 18, 2009 10:07 pm

Re: % of prestigious undergrads in LS

Postby kdw94780 » Tue Apr 20, 2010 10:34 pm

crackberry wrote:
whitman wrote:To the person that asked about top publics: they are generally considered Berkeley, Michigan, UVA, UCLA, UNC. There are other great publics, of course, but those are the five that are considered elite.

To put UNC in that tier is to do a serious disservice to the other four schools in that list.

I grant you that UNC is a Top 5 large public, but it is not in the same league as Berkeley, Michigan, UVA and UCLA.


I'd also take out Michigan for undergrad...seriously

User avatar
whitman
Posts: 819
Joined: Tue Nov 17, 2009 4:08 am

Re: % of prestigious undergrads in LS

Postby whitman » Tue Apr 20, 2010 10:37 pm

You don't think UNC's undergrad is an elite undergrad, but Michigan and UCLA are? Interesting. I'd always thought UNC and UVA undergrads were equivalent, with Michigan behind.

User avatar
violinst
Posts: 230
Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2010 4:23 pm

Re: % of prestigious undergrads in LS

Postby violinst » Tue Apr 20, 2010 10:38 pm

crackberry wrote:
whitman wrote:To the person that asked about top publics: they are generally considered Berkeley, Michigan, UVA, UCLA, UNC. There are other great publics, of course, but those are the five that are considered elite.

To put UNC in that tier is to do a serious disservice to the other four schools in that list.

I grant you that UNC is a Top 5 large public, but it is not in the same league as Berkeley, Michigan, UVA and UCLA.


I wouldn't put UCLA in that league either. Berkeley, Michigan, and UVA are comparable, imo. UCLA is a step below, then you have UNC, Wisconsin, Illinois, Colorado, Texas, etc
Last edited by violinst on Tue Apr 20, 2010 10:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

fortissimo
Posts: 597
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2010 11:05 am

Re: % of prestigious undergrads in LS

Postby fortissimo » Tue Apr 20, 2010 10:39 pm

whitman wrote:You don't think UNC's undergrad is an elite undergrad, but Michigan and UCLA are? Interesting. I'd always thought UNC and UVA undergrads were equivalent, with Michigan behind.


Not according to the rankings...

The top publics are Berkeley, Michigan, UVA, and UCLA. They have very similar 25-75 interquartile ranges.

09042014
Posts: 18282
Joined: Wed Oct 14, 2009 10:47 pm

Re: % of prestigious undergrads in LS

Postby 09042014 » Tue Apr 20, 2010 10:40 pm

whitman wrote:You don't think UNC's undergrad is an elite undergrad, but Michigan and UCLA are? Interesting. I'd always thought UNC and UVA undergrads were equivalent, with Michigan behind.


Which school are more prestigious is more regional. In the midwest people think Michigan is elite, and think UNC isn't worth shit.

fortissimo
Posts: 597
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2010 11:05 am

Re: % of prestigious undergrads in LS

Postby fortissimo » Tue Apr 20, 2010 10:41 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
whitman wrote:You don't think UNC's undergrad is an elite undergrad, but Michigan and UCLA are? Interesting. I'd always thought UNC and UVA undergrads were equivalent, with Michigan behind.


Which school are more prestigious is more regional. In the midwest people think Michigan is elite, and think UNC isn't worth shit.


Nobody knows wtf UNC is out west or in the midwest. First time I heard of it was after I graduated from college. (Then again nobody knows wtf UVA is either, but it is a legit top public.)

User avatar
whitman
Posts: 819
Joined: Tue Nov 17, 2009 4:08 am

Re: % of prestigious undergrads in LS

Postby whitman » Tue Apr 20, 2010 10:44 pm

UNC's ranking is distorted due to high in-state requirements. Berkeley's is higher, true, but they have a much larger state to draw from. As a result, UNC's SAT scores, etc, are skewed downward. So maybe the student body is slightly less elite on average, but the institution and the top of the undergrad are on par, IMO.

User avatar
crackberry
Posts: 3252
Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2009 3:23 pm

Re: % of prestigious undergrads in LS

Postby crackberry » Tue Apr 20, 2010 10:45 pm

If we're talking solely about UG, UCLA and Berkeley are pretty comparable. Berkeley is slightly better, but only slightly.

In my head it's Berkeley, UVA, UCLA, Michigan in that order, but I'm not sure why I think that.

User avatar
kdw94780
Posts: 147
Joined: Mon May 18, 2009 10:07 pm

Re: % of prestigious undergrads in LS

Postby kdw94780 » Tue Apr 20, 2010 10:46 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
whitman wrote:You don't think UNC's undergrad is an elite undergrad, but Michigan and UCLA are? Interesting. I'd always thought UNC and UVA undergrads were equivalent, with Michigan behind.


Which school are more prestigious is more regional. In the midwest people think Michigan is elite, and think UNC isn't worth shit.


All Midwestern people think Michigan is elite? Haha, people who live west of the Mississippi wouldn't know the difference between Michigan and Michigan State. I think the only big public school to have national elite status is Berkeley. Berkeley is the only one that I think would be really competitive to get into. As for UCLA, it gets overshadowed by Berkeley. I understand though that it's really prestigious in Cali though. As for UVA, if you mentioned to someone from a state like mine (Missouri), they'd have to ask you what you mean. That's true because I had to ask someone where UVA was. :-) just my two cents It's just Berkeley, select privates, and whatever the big state school is in your state area that carry loads of prestige.

fortissimo
Posts: 597
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2010 11:05 am

Re: % of prestigious undergrads in LS

Postby fortissimo » Tue Apr 20, 2010 10:47 pm

crackberry wrote: In my head it's Berkeley, UVA, UCLA, Michigan in that order, but I'm not sure why I think that.


USNews? That's exactly what the rankings are now.

When I applied for undergrad it was Berkeley, Michigan, UVA, UCLA.

User avatar
whitman
Posts: 819
Joined: Tue Nov 17, 2009 4:08 am

Re: % of prestigious undergrads in LS

Postby whitman » Tue Apr 20, 2010 10:47 pm

Maybe it's just because I'm from the south, but I didn't even consider Michigan because if I was going public, I wanted either UVA or UNC. Michigan seemed a step below (I know US News says otherwise.) So to the person that said it's regional perception, I suppose you're right.

User avatar
Unemployed
Posts: 699
Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2009 12:35 am

Re: % of prestigious undergrads in LS

Postby Unemployed » Tue Apr 20, 2010 10:49 pm

LOL at the blue collared public school kids duking it out. I don't know about the quality of my education, but at least my parents paid a lot of money for it so it's got to be prestigious.

User avatar
crackberry
Posts: 3252
Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2009 3:23 pm

Re: % of prestigious undergrads in LS

Postby crackberry » Tue Apr 20, 2010 10:49 pm

whitman wrote:Maybe it's just because I'm from the south, but I didn't even consider Michigan because if I was going public, I wanted either UVA or UNC. Michigan seemed a step below (I know US News says otherwise.) So to the person that said it's regional perception, I suppose you're right.

I have no doubt that in the South, UNC and UVA are considered the top publics, but if we were to try to look at this from a region-neutral perspective, I think UNC is a step below the other four.




Return to “Law School Admissions Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: grandpapy360 and 10 guests