% of prestigious undergrads in LS Forum

[crackberry]

The high grades at Brown may be because they don't have a core curriculum. You just take the classes you want. So people may choose the classes they will do well in. There are no tough courses people are forced into.

That's a somewhat interesting theory, but really you aren't forced into any tough classes at traditional American universities these days. Sure, there are core requirements at other schools, but it's not like you're forced to take Chemistry or Physics or something.

[chanchito]

true. But I go to a school with a liberal arts core and some sciency people suffer with the philosophy/literature requirements... People that would otherwise stock up only on math/ science classes if it was up to them.

[AngryAvocado]

For the record I am a terrible engineer. I'm currently a huge draw on society. Also I know plenty of engineers who became IBankers actually.

Your point about making a ton of money then letting it collapse is exactly Ray's point.

These investment firms would package individual mortgages while considering each basically an independent variable. They didn't factor in variables that would be affect large numbers of the mortgages at the same time in the same area, like economic collapse. They imploded their own banks, and without unprecedented government intervention, they would have imploded the global banking system.

I don't think they were nearly as ignorant as they've been portrayed. They might not have been aware of how quickly it could hit the fan, or how bad things could get, but I think they were largely aware of the fact that what they were doing was manipulating products and formulas for short-term gain and long term detriment. Why do they care if the company or the taxpayers end up footing the bill down the line? They'll have already made millions by that point and that money won't be going anywhere. The REAL ignorance came not from the i-bankers, many of whom made out like bandits, but from some of the macro-decision makers at banks (See: Wachovia acquisition of Golden West). As our system would have it, though, almost all of those incompetent scumbags made out like bandits anyhow.

[crackberry]

true. But I go to a school with a liberal arts core and some sciency people suffer with the philosophy/literature requirements... People that would otherwise stock up only on math/ science classes if it was up to them.

Yeah but there aren't many of those kids at Brown, relatively speaking.

[lostjake]

At my school if you couldn't handle engineering courses you transfered into the liberal arts dept. How many people transfer from LA -> Engineer? Discuss.

[dutchstriker]

At my school if you couldn't handle engineering courses you transfered into the liberal arts dept. How many people transfer from LA -> Engineer? Discuss.

Almost none. Why? In part because you can't afford to miss the first semester or two of engineering courses and still graduate on time.

Oh, I'm sorry. Did you want me to say that it's because liberal arts majors are stupid?

Look, I'm sorry your GPA blows ass (relatively speaking) and you can't get into a T6 (T10?) school now. It really isn't fair that a major in which it is easier to get a high GPA (e.g. sociology) is evaluated in the same way as engineering or physics. I understand you're bitter about that. But let's not launch a polemic against liberal arts majors, many of whom (including myself) could have made capable engineers or scientists had that been an interest of theirs. Let's address the actual issue: law school admissions policies overly focused on USNWR rankings.

[lostjake]

At my school if you couldn't handle engineering courses you transfered into the liberal arts dept. How many people transfer from LA -> Engineer? Discuss.

Almost none. Why? In part because you can't afford to miss the first semester or two of engineering courses and still graduate on time.

Oh, I'm sorry. Did you want me to say that it's because liberal arts majors are stupid?

Look, I'm sorry your GPA blows ass (relatively speaking) and you can't get into a T6 (T10?) school now. It really isn't fair that a major in which it is easier to get a high GPA (e.g. sociology) is evaluated in the same way as engineering or physics. I understand you're bitter about that. But let's not launch a polemic against liberal arts majors, many of whom (including myself) could have made capable engineers or scientists had that been an interest of theirs. Let's address the actual issue: law school admissions policies overly focused on USNWR rankings.

And you can miss the first semester or two of a LA degree and graduate on time?

Honestly, I did not expect anyone to say LA majors were stupid. If you go by Albert's quote though they are insane, because history majors and indeed any liberal arts majors never find jobs after graduating college, and to expect a different result would be insanity.

[smashedpumpkins]

At my school if you couldn't handle engineering courses you transfered into the liberal arts dept. How many people transfer from LA -> Engineer? Discuss.

Almost none. Why? In part because you can't afford to miss the first semester or two of engineering courses and still graduate on time.

Oh, I'm sorry. Did you want me to say that it's because liberal arts majors are stupid?

Look, I'm sorry your GPA blows ass (relatively speaking) and you can't get into a T6 (T10?) school now. It really isn't fair that a major in which it is easier to get a high GPA (e.g. sociology) is evaluated in the same way as engineering or physics. I understand you're bitter about that. But let's not launch a polemic against liberal arts majors, many of whom (including myself) could have made capable engineers or scientists had that been an interest of theirs. Let's address the actual issue: law school admissions policies overly focused on USNWR rankings.

And you can miss the first semester or two of a LA degree and graduate on time?

Yes because there aren't sequences of courses.

[09042014]

At my school if you couldn't handle engineering courses you transfered into the liberal arts dept. How many people transfer from LA -> Engineer? Discuss.

At my school the fail chart was Engineering-> Business -> Liberal Arts ->Communications/hospitality management/basket weaving.

What makes GPA's so hard to compare is the level of effort and intelligence needed change. Someone like me who sucked it up in engineering (2.8 ) would probably have gotten 3.3/3.4 in liberal arts because my problem was lack of effort. But there were students in my classes who worked their asses off, studying for close to 100 hours a week, and were barely keeping up with me. These students would have rocked liberal arts, probably 3.8+. These students just weren't smart enough to fully grasp the material.

[lostjake]

3.39 GPA from Tech school. Every LA/Econ class I took I got an A/set curve. These weren't engineering economics either, they were the courses to get into the honors courses. Engineering major requires a lot more time/effort than a LA degree, at my school anyway. Easily spend 10+ hours in a 1 credit lab course per week.

[prezidentv8]

3.39 GPA from Tech school. Every LA/Econ class I took I got an A/set curve. These weren't engineering economics either, they were the courses to get into the honors courses. Engineering major requires a lot more time/effort than a LA degree, at my school anyway. Easily spend 10+ hours in a 1 credit lab course per week.

Lab requirements are such a turn off to science things. Although I suppose if you're into that, then you might like it. Not I.

[09042014]

3.39 GPA from Tech school. Every LA/Econ class I took I got an A/set curve. These weren't engineering economics either, they were the courses to get into the honors courses. Engineering major requires a lot more time/effort than a LA degree, at my school anyway. Easily spend 10+ hours in a 1 credit lab course per week.

Lab requirements are such a turn off to science things. Although I suppose if you're into that, then you might like it. Not I.

I think labs are an important part of the science/engineering education, but christ at least make the course worth 3 or 4 hours.

[dutchstriker]

3.39 GPA from Tech school. Every LA/Econ class I took I got an A/set curve. These weren't engineering economics either, they were the courses to get into the honors courses. Engineering major requires a lot more time/effort than a LA degree, at my school anyway. Easily spend 10+ hours in a 1 credit lab course per week.

I thought you said in another thread your GPA was 3.25?

I agree that engineering majors work much harder than liberal arts students in general. I can't really compare since the only "engineering" course I took was calculus (in which I got an A/set the curve). But the "difficult" science courses I took, like organic chemistry, were no more difficult (and in some cases easier) than my upper level philosophy courses (both conceptually and in grading).

Could just be my school though; philosophy was the toughest major behind only physics in terms of average GPA.

[lostjake]

3.39 from degree granting university, 3.25 LSAC

Also most of my upper level classes weren't "plug and chug" courses, they were courses in the line of "here's the IRL problem, solve", the grade was based both correctness of solution, seeing all possible problems, ect. Lower level classes like organic chem are more of a plug and chug type class.

[dutchstriker]

3.39 from degree granting university, 3.25 LSAC

Also most of my upper level classes weren't "plug and chug" courses, they were courses in the line of "here's the IRL problem, solve and the grade was based both correctness of solution, seeing all possible problems, ect

Sounds like a good preparation for the type of thinking needed on law school exams. Good luck.

[lostjake]

Although it should be noted that my lowest grade in college was in my Ethics course.

[09042014]

3.39 from degree granting university, 3.25 LSAC

Also most of my upper level classes weren't "plug and chug" courses, they were courses in the line of "here's the IRL problem, solve and the grade was based both correctness of solution, seeing all possible problems, ect

Sounds like a good preparation for the type of thinking needed on law school exams. Good luck.

And if he was lucky enough to pick a good engineering major, it will significantly increase his employability after law school. T14 + EE degree is almost as good as HLS in terms of chances at getting a market paying job. Of course HLS still would pwn him in clerkship, academia, and V10.

[lostjake]

ME unfortunately, starting my MSEE next week though.

[09042014]

ME unfortunately, starting my MSEE next week though.

Have you taken a lot of EE courses. Because if I wanted a MSME I'd have to start from the beginning.

I kinda wanted a MSEE, but no reputable program would take my ass, and my undergrad is respectable so I figured I'd just be hurting my employability.

[Holly Golightly]

<------ fail GPA in Comm. I win.

[lostjake]

ME unfortunately, starting my MSEE next week though.

Have you taken a lot of EE courses. Because if I wanted a MSME I'd have to start from the beginning.

I kinda wanted a MSEE, but no reputable program would take my ass, and my undergrad is respectable so I figured I'd just be hurting my employability.

Yes, at my undergrad you have to have a wide selection of engineering courses in any degree. Did the controls things and circuits anal. I have to take one more pre-req (3000 level) then its 4000 level courses. Plus my wife is an EE, so hopefully she can help. I should say though not honestly sure about the law school thing, just getting the MSEE because its cheap (20k) and I can do it while working.

[zreinhar]

LostJake, mind if I ask whre you are doing the MSEE? Ill prob be starting mine this summer too... as an EET, Im in a weird position, hence my pursuit of the MSEE, I would honestly say that if I did the Philosphy stuff I would have had trouble in the upper div courses because my attention span is short that I would lose focus on the extended passages quick, the systematic steps of engineering are what keep my attention. I thought that my short attention span would be bad for LS but after reading through pracitce exams (torts and crim law mind you) I find that the evaluations of the circumstance are alot like my eng classes, so I am really looking forward to the "learn the rules in class, apply them in the final" that is exactly the same as my eng classes were (and my math minor classes too)

[lostjake]

PM sent, if anyone else is wants the info don't be afraid to ask.