University of Wisconsin vs. William & Mary vs Washington

(Applications Advice, Letters of Recommendation . . . )

Washington v Wisconsin v W&M

University of Washington
6
18%
University of Wisconsin
13
38%
William & Mary
15
44%
 
Total votes: 34

4llin
Posts: 20
Joined: Mon Mar 08, 2010 7:12 pm

University of Wisconsin vs. William & Mary vs Washington

Postby 4llin » Fri Apr 16, 2010 7:24 pm

Given the new US News Rankings which puts these schools at more or less a tie, which school should I choose?

Here's some info:

(1) I am a current resident of Washington State, therefore net debt would be $50,000 less at WA than at W&M or Wisconsin
(2) I do not want to practice in Washington State, I want to practice in Chicago or New York
(3) I would prefer to move for law school for a new experience (I was an undergrad at Washington)
(4) I am applying to - and for the purpose of this post let's assume I've been admitted to - all 3 MBA programs & plan to JD/MBA


Thoughts?

4llin
Posts: 20
Joined: Mon Mar 08, 2010 7:12 pm

Re: University of Wisconsin vs. William & Mary vs Washington

Postby 4llin » Sat Apr 17, 2010 3:32 am

.

ScaredWorkedBored
Posts: 409
Joined: Sat Jul 11, 2009 12:39 pm

Re: University of Wisconsin vs. William & Mary vs Washington

Postby ScaredWorkedBored » Sat Apr 17, 2010 9:00 am

Comporable quality schools. William & Mary has obviously much stronger East Coast placement for law. Wisconsin has an orders-of-magnitude better MBA school.

It sounds like you want the hell out of the Pacific Northwest, which would summarily eliminate Washington despite the financial edge.

chris888777
Posts: 65
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2007 10:49 am

Re: University of Wisconsin vs. William & Mary vs Washington

Postby chris888777 » Sat Apr 17, 2010 9:15 am

You want to practice in Chicago or New York which has me concerned about your choice of schools. Wisconsin would be ok for Chicago but not great. From my research, the schools that feed into Chicago from the Midwest are UChicago, Northwestern, Notre dame, WUSTL, Minn, Illinois, Iowa, Ohio State, and then Wisconsin. I think it would be somewhat difficult to get into the Chicago market from wisconsin assuming you graduate <10 percent of your class. William and Mary would not give you a much better shot in NYC unless you have great connections. NYC law firms have grads from the entire T14 plus Vandy, Texas, Notre Dame and Fordham to chose from (not to mention the top of the Cardozo and Brooklyn classes) My advice would be to pick the city you really want to live in and reapply next semester. With the schools you are choosing between (all great schools) It would be tough to break into the Chicago and NYC markets. If you got into William and Mary, I assume you would have a decent shot at Notre Dame, Illinois, Iowa, Fordham and Cardozo which would give you a much better shot at getting into the Chicago and New York Markets.

Good Luck with your decision.
Last edited by chris888777 on Sun Apr 18, 2010 11:05 am, edited 1 time in total.

ScaredWorkedBored
Posts: 409
Joined: Sat Jul 11, 2009 12:39 pm

Re: University of Wisconsin vs. William & Mary vs Washington

Postby ScaredWorkedBored » Sat Apr 17, 2010 9:43 am

chris888777 wrote: If you got into William and Mary, I assume you would have a decent shot at Notre Dame, Illinois, Iowa, Fordham and Cardozo which would give you a much better shot at getting into the Chicago and New York Markets.


The only one that really makes sense there over his current options is Fordham because of its unique circumstances. All the others are pretty much the same situation as the current schools - a 75%+ chance you won't do well enough to grab a large firm job in Chicago or New York. Deferring for a year to try to, e.g., go to Iowa over Wisconsin...does not compute.

4llin
Posts: 20
Joined: Mon Mar 08, 2010 7:12 pm

Re: University of Wisconsin vs. William & Mary vs Washington

Postby 4llin » Sat Apr 17, 2010 1:28 pm

Thanks for the thoughts. I certainly am aware of which schools are competing for which markets, so let's leave NY out of the picture. Looking at the Chicago market specifically I am not convinced that:

chris888777 wrote:Minn, Illinois, Iowa, Ohio State


are all favored over either W&M or Wisconsin. Also, Cardozo? .... definitely not sure about that. Anyone have placement data on this?

I have a reasonable shot at ND & WUSTL, but not at U Chicago or the rest of the T14 barring a 7 points increase on the LSAT.

Before I retake and wait another year to start school - something I really don't want to do - I want to be more convinced that T15-T22 places substantially better than T28 in Chicago. By convinced I mean w/ data or strong examples. Anyone?

chris888777
Posts: 65
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2007 10:49 am

Re: University of Wisconsin vs. William & Mary vs Washington

Postby chris888777 » Sun Apr 18, 2010 11:03 am

You are right. The schools i named probably would not give you a much better shot. All I was trying to say was that the schools i listed placed better than Wisconsin in Chicago (but not by much-except for Chicago, NW, WUSTL and ND) And Fordham (along with Cardozo-but again not by much) will give you a better shot at NYC than William and Mary. William and Mary is great but you would have to be in the top 20% or better to have a decent shot at the NYC market and with such a good student body that is a difficult task.

I just wanted to state that the New York and Chicago markets are among the most difficult to break into out of Law School and that your current choice of schools may not give you the best opportunities. The list of schools i provided were more of an example of schools you would be competing with rather than schools that would definitely trump Wisconsin (for Chicago) and William and Mary (for New York) If your dead set in your desire to break into one of these two markets I think you should really think about re-applying and looking at schools that would give you a better shot. I am from New York and have two friends who graduated in the top 30% of Fordhams class who are having difficulty because of the current shortage in job opportunities in New York. Unlike may cities around the US, Chicago and New York are dominated by large firms with very little mid law. In these cities (unless you want to go into public interest of govt) its really big law or bust. In New York, those who can't find employment in the city have to go out to long island or upstate NY which i'm sure is a far cry from what you are looking for.

Good luck with your decision and take comfort in the fact that if you end up at one of the schools you will have great opportunities for employment in the region they are located should Chicago or New York not work out.

Chris

BobDole34
Posts: 76
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 8:03 pm

Re: University of Wisconsin vs. William & Mary vs Washington

Postby BobDole34 » Mon Apr 19, 2010 1:48 am

Chris, your research is totally wrong. Wisconsin feeds as well into the Chicago market as other Midwestern schools. This economy is tough for everyone and with all due respect to the OP, his options are pretty limited. What Wisconsin offers however, is a really safe home base. OP will be employed in the upper Midwest with some ease.

And while I haven't really read this thread too much, a poster with in-state at a Wisconsin - or any midwestern public in the top tier - is a fool to pass it up for WUSTL's mythic employment advantage. Tell that to their current 2L class.

edit: Just noticed OP is a WA resident. Either go to WA or don't attend LS this cycle. Seriously.

CanadianWolf
Posts: 10439
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 4:54 pm

Re: University of Wisconsin vs. William & Mary vs Washington

Postby CanadianWolf » Mon Apr 19, 2010 1:55 am

I don't know your stats but maybe the MBA schools will help you decide. Do you envision yourself as an attorney with an MBA, or as a business graduate with a law degree?
It might be helpful to contact the placement offices at all three schools for MBA grads as well as for law grads.

User avatar
A'nold
Posts: 3622
Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 9:07 pm

Re: University of Wisconsin vs. William & Mary vs Washington

Postby A'nold » Mon Apr 19, 2010 2:06 am

I am completely bewildered by somebody that would rather live in VA or WI than WA State and the Seattle area. Please leave then, you don't deserve its greatness. :wink:

ScaredWorkedBored
Posts: 409
Joined: Sat Jul 11, 2009 12:39 pm

Re: University of Wisconsin vs. William & Mary vs Washington

Postby ScaredWorkedBored » Mon Apr 19, 2010 9:44 am

BobDole34 wrote:Chris, your research is totally wrong. Wisconsin feeds as well into the Chicago market as other Midwestern schools. This economy is tough for everyone and with all due respect to the OP, his options are pretty limited. What Wisconsin offers however, is a really safe home base. OP will be employed in the upper Midwest with some ease.


Yeah, I don't know where his research is coming from other than mindlessly reciting the rough order of US News rankings. All the 20ish-30ish Big 10 schools place similarly. Illinois does a bit better because of where it's home state adjustment is but not enough to bet on, let alone make it better than a 50/50. The difference between finishing Top 15% or Top 25% after your 1L year is generally one class.

There's just no Fordham equivalent for Chicago BigLaw. And WUSTL & Notre Dame are absolutely miserable right now if you want to talk about how Fordham isn't doing so hot.

4llin
Posts: 20
Joined: Mon Mar 08, 2010 7:12 pm

Re: University of Wisconsin vs. William & Mary vs Washington

Postby 4llin » Mon Apr 19, 2010 6:01 pm

BobDole34 wrote: edit: Just noticed OP is a WA resident. Either go to WA or don't attend LS this cycle. Seriously.


Do you mean this because of the particular schools or because of the timing ("this cycle"). If you are referring to the timing, care to share why?




Return to “Law School Admissions Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Baidu [Spider], Google [Bot] and 3 guests