Whittier vs. Golden Gate vs. La Verne

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bvillaro
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Whittier vs. Golden Gate vs. La Verne

Postby bvillaro » Thu Apr 15, 2010 1:16 am

I know they are all T4s so spare the jokes/sarcasm please.

Can anyone give me pros/cons to each school, or maybe any helpful opinions by which I can base my decision?

Whittier is offering me $8,000 for the first year, w/ a chance for more based on how my first year goes.
GGU is offering $30,000 total, conditionally.
La Verne is offering $25,000+ for my first year which is about 70% tuition, conditional as well.

I'm still waiting to hear back from other schools, but these were the first to accept me that I'd actually consider.

Thanks for the input, it's greatly appreciated!

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amputatedbrain
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Re: Whittier vs. Golden Gate vs. La Verne

Postby amputatedbrain » Thu Apr 15, 2010 1:36 pm

Go the one that's the cheapest for you. Be careful about how you weigh scholarships with strict requirements that you may not be able to meet though.

Frankly, GGU would appeal the least to me regardless. They have a terrible reputation . . . I remember they were in danger of losing accredition because their bar passage rate was so low (like 35% or something). And you'd be in direct competition with Stanford, Berkeley, and Hasting.

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nahgems
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Re: Whittier vs. Golden Gate vs. La Verne

Postby nahgems » Thu Apr 15, 2010 3:05 pm

amputatedbrain wrote:Frankly, GGU would appeal the least to me regardless. They have a terrible reputation . . . I remember they were in danger of losing accredition because their bar passage rate was so low (like 35% or something). And you'd be in direct competition with Stanford, Berkeley, and Hasting.


Actually, their bar pass rate is 68.40, fairly close to the CA average of 71.15%

MidlawMyth
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Re: Whittier vs. Golden Gate vs. La Verne

Postby MidlawMyth » Thu Apr 15, 2010 3:09 pm

Do not hesitate to drop out if you lose the conditional scholarships. Those schools try to scam people baiting them with 1st year scholarships that are almost impossible to maintain.

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nahgems
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Re: Whittier vs. Golden Gate vs. La Verne

Postby nahgems » Thu Apr 15, 2010 3:35 pm

MidlawMyth wrote:Do not hesitate to drop out if you lose the conditional scholarships. Those schools try to scam people baiting them with 1st year scholarships that are almost impossible to maintain.


I'm curious about where your data comes from. I hear a lot of chatter on the boards about T4s giving scholarships, but making it impossible to keep them. That hasn't been my experience (as a student at a T4 w/ a full scholarship). While the grading curves are steep, the scholarship students seem to be at the top of the curve. After all, we got scholarships because *someone* thought we would succeed in law school. I don't know the financial aid status of all my peers - so my data is obviously incomplete. Many students have openly shared their scholarship information. After first semester, I only know one person in danger of losing a scholarship. I know of least 7 others who are solidly keeping theirs. It seems like the majority of scholarship students succeed in law school (which generally means they keep their award). But I’m a math geek. I love numbers. So I’d be interested to see any data you have on this issue.

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A'nold
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Re: Whittier vs. Golden Gate vs. La Verne

Postby A'nold » Thu Apr 15, 2010 3:50 pm

I don't know, I think I would actually choose Golden Gate unlike the poster above.

Danteshek
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Re: Whittier vs. Golden Gate vs. La Verne

Postby Danteshek » Thu Apr 15, 2010 3:59 pm

A'nold wrote:I don't know, I think I would actually choose Golden Gate unlike the poster above.


Agreed.

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Chicklets
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Re: Whittier vs. Golden Gate vs. La Verne

Postby Chicklets » Thu Apr 15, 2010 6:32 pm

Bar Exam Statistics*** 2007 2006 2005 2004 2002 2001 AVG*
State in which most graduates took bar exam: CA CA CA CA CA CA
School's bar passage rate: 60.4% 43.2% 34.8% 29% 54% 52.7% 45.7%

Golden Gate's Bar Passage rate may be 68% now, but it was indeed below 30% just 6 years ago.....

(Unable to edit formatting.... sorry)

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amputatedbrain
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Re: Whittier vs. Golden Gate vs. La Verne

Postby amputatedbrain » Thu Apr 15, 2010 6:45 pm

nahgems wrote:
amputatedbrain wrote:Frankly, GGU would appeal the least to me regardless. They have a terrible reputation . . . I remember they were in danger of losing accredition because their bar passage rate was so low (like 35% or something). And you'd be in direct competition with Stanford, Berkeley, and Hasting.


Actually, their bar pass rate is 68.40, fairly close to the CA average of 71.15%


Was gonna find the stats but looks like Chicklets did it for me. I didn't realize they'd bounced back to the high 60's, but they were in danger of losing accreditation not too long ago.
Last edited by amputatedbrain on Thu Apr 15, 2010 9:05 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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20160810
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Re: Whittier vs. Golden Gate vs. La Verne

Postby 20160810 » Thu Apr 15, 2010 7:34 pm

They are all, as you know, pretty bad law schools. The stark reality is that taking out substantial debt to attend any of them is a really dicey proposition. It seems like the game plan might be to take the close to full 1st year scholly at La Verne, gun like crazy, pray for a top-5% spot in your class, and then transfer to a T1 school after 1L before you are stuck paying $40,000 a year for a JD from LaVerne. But doing that means you need to realize that:

A.) No matter how hard you work, grades in law school are often difficult to predict
B.) There is a substantial chance that you will not be top-5%
C.) If that happens, there is an even more substantial chance that your best bet is dropping out rather than paying full tuition for 2L

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NayBoer
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Re: Whittier vs. Golden Gate vs. La Verne

Postby NayBoer » Thu Apr 15, 2010 7:38 pm

Pretty sure Whittier was on ABA probation for a low pass rate a couple years ago.

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20160810
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Re: Whittier vs. Golden Gate vs. La Verne

Postby 20160810 » Thu Apr 15, 2010 7:43 pm

NayBoer wrote:Pretty sure Whittier was on ABA probation for a low pass rate a couple years ago.


They did, however, have the good sense not to accept 2008 applicant and erstwhile TLS legend PreLawDelt.

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NayBoer
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Re: Whittier vs. Golden Gate vs. La Verne

Postby NayBoer » Thu Apr 15, 2010 7:57 pm

SoftBoiledLife wrote:
NayBoer wrote:Pretty sure Whittier was on ABA probation for a low pass rate a couple years ago.


They did, however, have the good sense not to accept 2008 applicant and erstwhile TLS legend PreLawDelt.
No imagination. They could've carved out a reputation as the free expression school.

eth3n
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Re: Whittier vs. Golden Gate vs. La Verne

Postby eth3n » Thu Apr 15, 2010 7:57 pm

http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_blog ... ornia.html

La verne was the 20th ranked school in CA bar passage rates last July with 34%, did you apply to cal-western? I have heard despite their t4 status they are on the move, although this is pretty anecdotal. However their CA bar passage rate is intimidating for such a poorly ranked school (they are also in SD which isn't an entirely over saturated market, like bay area w/GGU)

Although like SBL said, its a huge risk to attend any of these laws schools in a normal economy. I know many 1Ls at Davis (#28 IIRC) who are top of the class and had substantial difficulty finding summer positions ITE. Basically, unless you have personal connections in the industry, I would avoid going to lawschool, even if you are aiming at non-prestigious jobs. Some people will not be dissuaded from taking their shot. But do the math ahead of time, MINIMIZE COST, and be prepared to drop it and start a new career if it doesn't work out. You don't want to be one of those people who throws 150k at a t3 and then starts a blog about how evil law schools are once they are unemployed and only being able to payoff $100 of their principle each month.

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Chicklets
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Re: Whittier vs. Golden Gate vs. La Verne

Postby Chicklets » Thu Apr 15, 2010 11:48 pm

SoftBoiledLife wrote:
NayBoer wrote:Pretty sure Whittier was on ABA probation for a low pass rate a couple years ago.


They did, however, have the good sense not to accept 2008 applicant and erstwhile TLS legend PreLawDelt.


Wasting time tonight, and this post led me to look up PreLawDelt (before my joining TLS community). It was SO entertaining!

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arhmcpo
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Re: Whittier vs. Golden Gate vs. La Verne

Postby arhmcpo » Fri Apr 16, 2010 12:02 am

Did you apply to Cal Western? Cuz there becoming UC-SD law school aka they actually have a shot at becoming a much more solid school than they are currently as a result of UC oversight.

Whittier has an absolutely horrific reputation from what I know of the school. I would say no one actually graduates from Whittier, 1/3rd drop out, 1/3rd are cut, and 1/3rd transfer out. Also heard La Verne is...not so good to be nice; so I'm picking golden gate.

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Concept2
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Re: Whittier vs. Golden Gate vs. La Verne

Postby Concept2 » Fri Apr 16, 2010 12:06 am

Although all word of mouth I have heard TJLS is getting better and building a new facility. Not sure how they stack up against the others but GG and Whittier would be a definite no go if I was in your situation.

Danteshek
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Re: Whittier vs. Golden Gate vs. La Verne

Postby Danteshek » Fri Apr 16, 2010 1:05 am

arhmcpo wrote:Did you apply to Cal Western? Cuz there becoming UC-SD law school aka they actually have a shot at becoming a much more solid school than they are currently as a result of UC oversight.

Whittier has an absolutely horrific reputation from what I know of the school. I would say no one actually graduates from Whittier, 1/3rd drop out, 1/3rd are cut, and 1/3rd transfer out. Also heard La Verne is...not so good to be nice; so I'm picking golden gate.


Cal Western is a good school in its own right. It certainly does not need an additional layer of bureaucracy to be successful. Also, your opinion of Whittier is alarmist. I actually admire a school that has the balls to let people go who are not likely to pass the bar. Every school in CA should be doing this.

Grad09
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Re: Whittier vs. Golden Gate vs. La Verne

Postby Grad09 » Fri Apr 16, 2010 1:10 am

I would choose Golden Gate.

I hear they have a number of solid professors that teach at other bay area schools. Sure the market is saturated, but your chances of hitting a 120K job from any t4 at graduation is minimal. Their employment stats don't look too bad considering their tier and reputation.

If you got into the Honors Lawyering Program I would go hands down. If you haven't been accepted, ask them to accept you if you commit to them. It isn't likely but it can't hurt to ask. You will make some good connections with that co-op program, and hopefully secure your job after you graduate.

If you want to be a lawyer for the right reasons, it is worth any amount of money you are willing to pay. I would advise to sit out a year, study and retake the LSAT, anything around a 156ish should get you into the HLP at GGU w/money (assuming your GPA is around 3.2 or so).

So sit out a year, save up money and retake, OR go to Golden Gate.

HTH

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20160810
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Re: Whittier vs. Golden Gate vs. La Verne

Postby 20160810 » Fri Apr 16, 2010 1:28 am

Chicklets wrote:
SoftBoiledLife wrote:
NayBoer wrote:Pretty sure Whittier was on ABA probation for a low pass rate a couple years ago.


They did, however, have the good sense not to accept 2008 applicant and erstwhile TLS legend PreLawDelt.


Wasting time tonight, and this post led me to look up PreLawDelt (before my joining TLS community). It was SO entertaining!


My biggest issue with PLD (may he RIP) was that, according to his PS, "it all started" with both oil and "a simple childrens toy," depending on which paragraph one started off reading. It can't have all started with both, so which was it? He never clarified this point, and I'll forever wonder.

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onthecusp
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Re: Whittier vs. Golden Gate vs. La Verne

Postby onthecusp » Fri Apr 16, 2010 4:19 am

bvillaro wrote:I know they are all T4s so spare the jokes/sarcasm please.

Can anyone give me pros/cons to each school, or maybe any helpful opinions by which I can base my decision?

Whittier is offering me $8,000 for the first year, w/ a chance for more based on how my first year goes.
GGU is offering $30,000 total, conditionally.
La Verne is offering $25,000+ for my first year which is about 70% tuition, conditional as well.

I'm still waiting to hear back from other schools, but these were the first to accept me that I'd actually consider.

Thanks for the input, it's greatly appreciated!


I can offer some useful input since I threw applications out to Whittier and La Verne.

Of the three schools, Whittier is most risky. They have no restrictions on your first year scholarship, however, it's not renewable. The only reason you get a scholly in your 2nd and 3rd years is if you are in the top 20% in your class.

1-5% = 100% Scholarship
6-10% = 75% Scholarship
11-15% = 50% Scholarship
16-20 % = 25 % Scholarship
21% and below = paying sticker at a Tier 4 school that just got off probation from the ABA.


La Verne is pretty lenient with their scholly's. They offered me 30K per year if I remain in the top 30%

Top 40% = 75% of scholly
Top 50% = 50%
Top 60% = 25%
Top 70% and below...you got bigger problems.

If you're asking me what's the better option between Whittier and La Verne....they are pretty much a wash. Choose the cheaper safer option. Seriously, anything below Chapman, Pacific or Southwestern really isn't going to make a difference.

On a side note, I'd pay sticker at either of those schools before I graduated Golden Gate, Whittier, or La Verne. But that's just me.

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onthecusp
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Re: Whittier vs. Golden Gate vs. La Verne

Postby onthecusp » Fri Apr 16, 2010 4:23 am

SoftBoiledLife wrote:They are all, as you know, pretty bad law schools. The stark reality is that taking out substantial debt to attend any of them is a really dicey proposition. It seems like the game plan might be to take the close to full 1st year scholly at La Verne, gun like crazy, pray for a top-5% spot in your class, and then transfer to a T1 school after 1L before you are stuck paying $40,000 a year for a JD from LaVerne. But doing that means you need to realize that:

A.) No matter how hard you work, grades in law school are often difficult to predict
B.) There is a substantial chance that you will not be top-5%
C.) If that happens, there is an even more substantial chance that your best bet is dropping out rather than paying full tuition for 2L


He's not paying sticker...he got scholly's numbnuts.

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NayBoer
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Re: Whittier vs. Golden Gate vs. La Verne

Postby NayBoer » Fri Apr 16, 2010 1:20 pm

onthecusp wrote:
SoftBoiledLife wrote:They are all, as you know, pretty bad law schools. The stark reality is that taking out substantial debt to attend any of them is a really dicey proposition. It seems like the game plan might be to take the close to full 1st year scholly at La Verne, gun like crazy, pray for a top-5% spot in your class, and then transfer to a T1 school after 1L before you are stuck paying $40,000 a year for a JD from LaVerne. But doing that means you need to realize that:

A.) No matter how hard you work, grades in law school are often difficult to predict
B.) There is a substantial chance that you will not be top-5%
C.) If that happens, there is an even more substantial chance that your best bet is dropping out rather than paying full tuition for 2L


He's not paying sticker...he got scholly's numbnuts.


La Verne is offering $25,000+ for my first year which is about 70% tuition, conditional as well.

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ellebee
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Re: Whittier vs. Golden Gate vs. La Verne

Postby ellebee » Fri Apr 16, 2010 1:29 pm

Have you visited any of these schools? If the above posters are correct (anything lower than Chapman doesn't matter) then consider living costs and the environment as well. If you move to GGU then SF is REALLY expensive. Living in Costa Mesa near Whittier would be decently priced.

I visited GGU and it's more of a huge building than a campus. A lot of the students I met during ASD weren't sure what they wanted to do with their law degrees or if they wanted to attend law school anyway.

Whittier is a small campus but it provides more of a college lifestyle.

I guess I can't really give advice when it comes to financial decisions. For me, visitng these schools made a major impact in my desire to attend there.

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tadams86
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Re: Whittier vs. Golden Gate vs. La Verne

Postby tadams86 » Fri Apr 16, 2010 1:38 pm

onthecusp wrote:
bvillaro wrote:I know they are all T4s so spare the jokes/sarcasm please.

Can anyone give me pros/cons to each school, or maybe any helpful opinions by which I can base my decision?

Whittier is offering me $8,000 for the first year, w/ a chance for more based on how my first year goes.
GGU is offering $30,000 total, conditionally.
La Verne is offering $25,000+ for my first year which is about 70% tuition, conditional as well.

I'm still waiting to hear back from other schools, but these were the first to accept me that I'd actually consider.

Thanks for the input, it's greatly appreciated!


I can offer some useful input since I threw applications out to Whittier and La Verne.

Of the three schools, Whittier is most risky. They have no restrictions on your first year scholarship, however, it's not renewable. The only reason you get a scholly in your 2nd and 3rd years is if you are in the top 20% in your class.

1-5% = 100% Scholarship
6-10% = 75% Scholarship
11-15% = 50% Scholarship
16-20 % = 25 % Scholarship
21% and below = paying sticker at a Tier 4 school that just got off probation from the ABA.


La Verne is pretty lenient with their scholly's. They offered me 30K per year if I remain in the top 30%

Top 40% = 75% of scholly
Top 50% = 50%
Top 60% = 25%
Top 70% and below...you got bigger problems.

If you're asking me what's the better option between Whittier and La Verne....they are pretty much a wash. Choose the cheaper safer option. Seriously, anything below Chapman, Pacific or Southwestern really isn't going to make a difference.

On a side note, I'd pay sticker at either of those schools before I graduated Golden Gate, Whittier, or La Verne. But that's just me.



The information on whittier schollys is inaccurate, at least according to a friend who was accepted and received a scholly. She was given 15k with a 25% stipulation, and later given a 4k stipend for some clinic they have. Now before I hear a bunch of crap, I realize that being in the top 25% of your class is rather steep, but better than automatically losing the scholly after first year.

**note- I am pretty sure my friend is not lying to me.




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