Is law school tougher in a new state?

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Grad09
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Is law school tougher in a new state?

Postby Grad09 » Sun Apr 11, 2010 6:23 pm

Just wanted some feedback on people who have gone to a completely different state or area than where they lived or went to undergrad.

I'm from the NJ/NY area and did my undergrad in Boston. However, my best school(for simplicity, we will assume [arguably incorrectly] that my best is my highest ranked) is UCLA right now. I wouldn't mind living in CA after I graduate (I hear the weather is great). Here is the catch:

I dont know anyone in, nor have I been to, LA.

How hard is it to find employment/make connections/land a job when you have no idea where the nearest grocery store is? Has anyone ever taken this plunge? I did it in undergrad and ended up making connections and meeting people, but is it just as easy during law school?
Thanks for the insight.

crm
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Re: Is law school tougher in a new state?

Postby crm » Sun Apr 11, 2010 6:27 pm

Grad09 wrote:Just wanted some feedback on people who have gone to a completely different state or area than where they lived or went to undergrad.

I'm from the NJ/NY area and did my undergrad in Boston. However, my best school(for simplicity, we will assume [arguably incorrectly] that my best is my highest ranked) is UCLA right now. I wouldn't mind living in CA after I graduate (I hear the weather is great). Here is the catch:

I dont know anyone in, nor have I been to, LA.

How hard is it to find employment/make connections/land a job when you have no idea where the nearest grocery store is? Has anyone ever taken this plunge? I did it in undergrad and ended up making connections and meeting people, but is it just as easy during law school?
Thanks for the insight.


Would like to know this as well. Coming from Santa Barbara to possibly NY.

newyorklaw23
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Re: Is law school tougher in a new state?

Postby newyorklaw23 » Mon Apr 12, 2010 10:52 am

I'd like to hear people's experiences with this as well.

dusk2k2
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Re: Is law school tougher in a new state?

Postby dusk2k2 » Mon Apr 12, 2010 11:05 am

..
Last edited by dusk2k2 on Tue Mar 08, 2011 7:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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holybartender
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Re: Is law school tougher in a new state?

Postby holybartender » Mon Apr 12, 2010 4:50 pm

crm wrote:
Grad09 wrote:Just wanted some feedback on people who have gone to a completely different state or area than where they lived or went to undergrad.

I'm from the NJ/NY area and did my undergrad in Boston. However, my best school(for simplicity, we will assume [arguably incorrectly] that my best is my highest ranked) is UCLA right now. I wouldn't mind living in CA after I graduate (I hear the weather is great). Here is the catch:

I dont know anyone in, nor have I been to, LA.

How hard is it to find employment/make connections/land a job when you have no idea where the nearest grocery store is? Has anyone ever taken this plunge? I did it in undergrad and ended up making connections and meeting people, but is it just as easy during law school?
Thanks for the insight.


Would like to know this as well. Coming from Santa Barbara to possibly NY.


Fellow UCSB graduate?

CMDantes
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Re: Is law school tougher in a new state?

Postby CMDantes » Mon Apr 12, 2010 6:05 pm

dusk2k2 wrote:I'd like to hear about this as well. I'm, at this moment, probably 90 percent sure I'm going to be going to Minnesota, where I have no connections other than a roommate from college. I'm choosing not to attend GW at sticker even though I am from DC and have lots of friends whose parents are judges and lawyers.

I keep hearing about the importance of connections, especially in a secondary market like Minneapolis. For example, I've heard from some people that to get hired in Minnesota, you have to show a strong connection to Minneapolis apart from simply going to school there, which I don't have. Anyone have anything they can say about this?


Why would you do this? It seems like a basic understanding of the legal professional environment would lead you to the conclusion that connections are EXTREMELY important. Why would you give up your strong connections in an awesome market to move somewhere like Minneapolis without knowing anyone and competing against people who probably have much stronger connections than you?

I get the whole 'I want to venture out into uncharted territory' deal, but it seems kind of dumb considering that nature of the business.

As for those going to LA, I've heard nothing but bad things about the type of people and lifestyle there. Seems like a bunch of empty husks obsessed with glamor and celebrity mulling about being extremely rude to each other. I've never been, but had many several close friends move there for college and they came running back to Texas.

crm
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Re: Is law school tougher in a new state?

Postby crm » Mon Apr 12, 2010 6:17 pm

holybartender wrote:
crm wrote:
Grad09 wrote:Just wanted some feedback on people who have gone to a completely different state or area than where they lived or went to undergrad.

I'm from the NJ/NY area and did my undergrad in Boston. However, my best school(for simplicity, we will assume [arguably incorrectly] that my best is my highest ranked) is UCLA right now. I wouldn't mind living in CA after I graduate (I hear the weather is great). Here is the catch:

I dont know anyone in, nor have I been to, LA.

How hard is it to find employment/make connections/land a job when you have no idea where the nearest grocery store is? Has anyone ever taken this plunge? I did it in undergrad and ended up making connections and meeting people, but is it just as easy during law school?
Thanks for the insight.


Would like to know this as well. Coming from Santa Barbara to possibly NY.


Fellow UCSB graduate?


yep, class of 09!

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quickquestionthanks
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Re: Is law school tougher in a new state?

Postby quickquestionthanks » Mon Apr 12, 2010 6:21 pm

I think this depends on you. If you're subject to "culture shock" it could be bad. But if you are somewhat resilient and have experience moving around a bit (study abroad for example), you shouldn't have any trouble. I have a friend who moved to a new state with his girlfriend and it was the best decision he made. He found himself starting school with no friends, and thus no distractions :)

dusk2k2
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Re: Is law school tougher in a new state?

Postby dusk2k2 » Mon Apr 12, 2010 6:27 pm

..
Last edited by dusk2k2 on Tue Mar 08, 2011 7:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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quickquestionthanks
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Re: Is law school tougher in a new state?

Postby quickquestionthanks » Mon Apr 12, 2010 6:29 pm

dusk2k2 wrote:
Why would you do this? It seems like a basic understanding of the legal professional environment would lead you to the conclusion that connections are EXTREMELY important. Why would you give up your strong connections in an awesome market to move somewhere like Minneapolis without knowing anyone and competing against people who probably have much stronger connections than you?


Two reasons for this. 1) I just can't justify paying 44K a year to go to GW especially when I have a large scholarship offer from Minnesota. 2) If I went to GW, I would have to live at home, which is really just something I don't want to do, especially for another 3 years. I just don't enjoy it at home anymore.

Just so you can understand, I can go to Minnesota and come out with 60K of debt. If I went to GW, It would be closer to 130K.

Is this a big mistake for someone in my situation? If I already have connections in DC, wouldn't any reputable school help me to get back here, if I wanted to?



Oh yeah, forgot this part about my post. Go to GW. You don't have to live at home.

rando
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Re: Is law school tougher in a new state?

Postby rando » Mon Apr 12, 2010 6:33 pm

CMDantes wrote:
dusk2k2 wrote:I'd like to hear about this as well. I'm, at this moment, probably 90 percent sure I'm going to be going to Minnesota, where I have no connections other than a roommate from college. I'm choosing not to attend GW at sticker even though I am from DC and have lots of friends whose parents are judges and lawyers.

I keep hearing about the importance of connections, especially in a secondary market like Minneapolis. For example, I've heard from some people that to get hired in Minnesota, you have to show a strong connection to Minneapolis apart from simply going to school there, which I don't have. Anyone have anything they can say about this?


Why would you do this? It seems like a basic understanding of the legal professional environment would lead you to the conclusion that connections are EXTREMELY important. Why would you give up your strong connections in an awesome market to move somewhere like Minneapolis without knowing anyone and competing against people who probably have much stronger connections than you?

I get the whole 'I want to venture out into uncharted territory' deal, but it seems kind of dumb considering that nature of the business.

As for those going to LA, I've heard nothing but bad things about the type of people and lifestyle there. Seems like a bunch of empty husks obsessed with glamor and celebrity mulling about being extremely rude to each other. I've never been, but had many several close friends move there for college and they came running back to Texas.


Dunno. I moved all around the country and came to Atlanta on a whim. Made great connections as a 1L and have done well so far. I think that most of the great legal connections you will make will be while you are in law school and beyond.

The statement about LA above is ridiculous. People in LA think New Yorkers and Bostoners are assholes. People in NY think that everyone is inferior. People in Atlanta think Northerners are carpetbaggers. And Texas... well my Torts prof. for instance used to pick cases out of Texas to use as our counterexamples to the majority rules because it was his impression that Texas was generally ass backward.

Go where you will have the best opportunities and that you think you fit in. There are great people in every city and some major assholes too. Try not to generalize though.

CMDantes
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Re: Is law school tougher in a new state?

Postby CMDantes » Mon Apr 12, 2010 6:44 pm

rando wrote:
CMDantes wrote:
dusk2k2 wrote:I'd like to hear about this as well. I'm, at this moment, probably 90 percent sure I'm going to be going to Minnesota, where I have no connections other than a roommate from college. I'm choosing not to attend GW at sticker even though I am from DC and have lots of friends whose parents are judges and lawyers.

I keep hearing about the importance of connections, especially in a secondary market like Minneapolis. For example, I've heard from some people that to get hired in Minnesota, you have to show a strong connection to Minneapolis apart from simply going to school there, which I don't have. Anyone have anything they can say about this?


Why would you do this? It seems like a basic understanding of the legal professional environment would lead you to the conclusion that connections are EXTREMELY important. Why would you give up your strong connections in an awesome market to move somewhere like Minneapolis without knowing anyone and competing against people who probably have much stronger connections than you?

I get the whole 'I want to venture out into uncharted territory' deal, but it seems kind of dumb considering that nature of the business.

As for those going to LA, I've heard nothing but bad things about the type of people and lifestyle there. Seems like a bunch of empty husks obsessed with glamor and celebrity mulling about being extremely rude to each other. I've never been, but had many several close friends move there for college and they came running back to Texas.


Dunno. I moved all around the country and came to Atlanta on a whim. Made great connections as a 1L and have done well so far. I think that most of the great legal connections you will make will be while you are in law school and beyond.

The statement about LA above is ridiculous. People in LA think New Yorkers and Bostoners are assholes. People in NY think that everyone is inferior. People in Atlanta think Northerners are carpetbaggers. And Texas... well my Torts prof. for instance used to pick cases out of Texas to use as our counterexamples to the majority rules because it was his impression that Texas was generally ass backward.

Go where you will have the best opportunities and that you think you fit in. There are great people in every city and some major assholes too. Try not to generalize though.


While I agree with you that connections made during law school are extremely important, I always thought smaller markets preferred applicants who had actual ties to the state beyond attending law school for three years. In Texas, at least, this seems to be true. Just an 0L talking here, so you probably have more authority to comment on this kind of thing.

While Texas is definitely ass backwards in many respects, the people here (Houston, Austin, Dallas) seem a lot nicer than those in major cities elsewhere. From personal experience of Miami and New York, at least, this has been true. Generalizations are bad, I agree, but LA just seems so incredibly fake and obsessed with that sort of shitty lifestyle. I hope I'm wrong and that the OP has a fantastic time in LA, honestly, but that's just my take on it.

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kn6542
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Re: Is law school tougher in a new state?

Postby kn6542 » Mon Apr 12, 2010 6:50 pm

CMDantes wrote:
While Texas is definitely ass backwards in many respects, the people here (Houston, Austin, Dallas) seem a lot nicer than those in major cities elsewhere. From personal experience of Miami and New York, at least, this has been true. Generalizations are bad, I agree, but LA just seems so incredibly fake and obsessed with that sort of shitty lifestyle. I hope I'm wrong and that the OP has a fantastic time in LA, honestly, but that's just my take on it.

LA is like that bc nearly everyone there is in "the business" in some respect. The obsession with said shitty lifestyle is due to the industry.

So long as you're engaged in generalizations, the generalization most ppl make about Texas is that this "niceness" you claim exists is largely inherently superficial and that Texans will stab you in the back without much hesitation ... while smiling at you. This generalization is, for the most part, true. If ppl in LA bother you because they are "fake," that is primarily because it's not the kind of fake to which you're accustomed, not because it's fake at all.

pollaclc
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Re: Is law school tougher in a new state?

Postby pollaclc » Mon Apr 12, 2010 6:58 pm

kn6542 wrote:
CMDantes wrote:
While Texas is definitely ass backwards in many respects, the people here (Houston, Austin, Dallas) seem a lot nicer than those in major cities elsewhere. From personal experience of Miami and New York, at least, this has been true. Generalizations are bad, I agree, but LA just seems so incredibly fake and obsessed with that sort of shitty lifestyle. I hope I'm wrong and that the OP has a fantastic time in LA, honestly, but that's just my take on it.

LA is like that bc nearly everyone there is in "the business" in some respect. The obsession with said shitty lifestyle is due to the industry.

So long as you're engaged in generalizations, the generalization most ppl make about Texas is that this "niceness" you claim exists is largely inherently superficial and that Texans will stab you in the back without much hesitation ... while smiling at you. This generalization is, for the most part, true. If ppl in LA bother you because they are "fake," that is primarily because it's not the kind of fake to which you're accustomed, not because it's fake at all.

credited.

CMDantes
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Re: Is law school tougher in a new state?

Postby CMDantes » Mon Apr 12, 2010 6:59 pm

Right, by the group of people I have classified as "nice" I don't mean the people with whom I'm engaged in some kind of personal or professional relationship.

I meant the people on the street. I mean in New York someone will glare at you for asking them the time and laugh at a woman who expects someone to open a door for her. Or curse at you for taking too long on a stairway or something like that. In Texas people sometimes go out of their way to help you find whatever you're looking for or help you with some heavy shit you're carrying. Sure, it can be considered fake if you dissect how those same people act in their personal/professional relationships.

I mean, who gives a shit if you're a backstabbing liar when your only interaction with some random person is to give them directions or hold open a door for them.

dusk2k2
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Re: Is law school tougher in a new state?

Postby dusk2k2 » Mon Apr 12, 2010 7:00 pm

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Last edited by dusk2k2 on Tue Mar 08, 2011 7:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

WhatTheLawSchool
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Re: Is law school tougher in a new state?

Postby WhatTheLawSchool » Mon Apr 12, 2010 7:01 pm

For me personally, I'm choosing to travel across the country for school. (UT to DC) I will actually be paying much more there than I could elsewhere, but I'm following the connections. As far as home vs. away, I'd say go where the opportunities are. Even if you'll have a heavier debt load, in the end, if you can't land a job with 60k of debt, it's going to be much worse that twice that and a nice job that you got with your connections. Go where the opportunities are.

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kn6542
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Re: Is law school tougher in a new state?

Postby kn6542 » Mon Apr 12, 2010 7:04 pm

CMDantes wrote:Right, by the group of people I have classified as "nice" I don't mean the people with whom I'm engaged in some kind of personal or professional relationship.

I meant the people on the street. I mean in New York someone will glare at you for asking them the time and laugh at a woman who expects someone to open a door for her. Or curse at you for taking too long on a stairway or something like that. In Texas people sometimes go out of their way to help you find whatever you're looking for or help you with some heavy shit you're carrying. Sure, it can be considered fake if you dissect how those same people act in their personal/professional relationships.

I mean, who gives a shit if you're a backstabbing liar when your only interaction with some random person is to give them directions or hold open a door for them.

Who said you didn't mean the "people on the street?"

I didn't say it mattered. You said it matters.

I personally can manage my own affairs and don't give a shit what "people on the street" are doing.

motiontodismiss
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Re: Is law school tougher in a new state?

Postby motiontodismiss » Mon Apr 12, 2010 7:08 pm

Doing ANYTHING in a new state is tougher.

Kobe_Teeth
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Re: Is law school tougher in a new state?

Postby Kobe_Teeth » Mon Apr 12, 2010 7:10 pm

My guess is that its different for each person. If you adapt well, you'll do fine. If you don't, then you might be better off if the new area were smaller and less intimidating than say - New York. Sorta a common sense question to a degree...

However, I will say, if you're coming to Chicago, the city is actually quite manageable, (mostly) friendly, and not all that intimidating.

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holybartender
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Re: Is law school tougher in a new state?

Postby holybartender » Mon Apr 12, 2010 7:13 pm

dusk2k2 wrote:
Oh yeah, forgot this part about my post. Go to GW. You don't have to live at home.


Unfortunately, I'm Asian and am not allowed to move out of my house unless I have an actual, real job. For me to take a loan out to live on my own in DC would be hearsay. Them's just the way of Asian families, I'm afraid, and its very difficult to explain unless you are Asian or in a similar type of family. We're a very family-oriented people. Check around your college campuses for example on the west coast. You'll see that many of the undergrad Asians from the area live at home. We're just not allowed to move out. You'll never see Asians getting kicked out of their houses either or being encouraged to move out of the house. So in regards to that, I can't live on my own in DC during law school, not because physically I'm not allowed to, but because I can't, in good conscience do it without seriously disappointing my family. And don't say, "to hell with your family, its your life", because thats just the way my family is, and I can't disappoint them that way.


If you want to live out of your parents' house you'll find a way. You're 22 now, you don't have to do everything your parents tell you.

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kn6542
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Re: Is law school tougher in a new state?

Postby kn6542 » Mon Apr 12, 2010 7:16 pm

motiontodismiss wrote:Doing ANYTHING in a new state is tougher.

I really don't get why it matters. Going to law school is a change from whatever you were doing before. Since no U.S. law schools are located in 3d world countries, I'm not sure why it mattes where it is. It's not like there won't be housing, running water, or ppl who speak your language wherever you go. Just a weird question all around.

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kn6542
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Re: Is law school tougher in a new state?

Postby kn6542 » Mon Apr 12, 2010 7:19 pm

dusk2k2 wrote:
Oh yeah, forgot this part about my post. Go to GW. You don't have to live at home.


Unfortunately, I'm Asian and am not allowed to move out of my house unless I have an actual, real job. For me to take a loan out to live on my own in DC would be hearsay. Them's just the way of Asian families, I'm afraid, and its very difficult to explain unless you are Asian or in a similar type of family. We're a very family-oriented people. Check around your college campuses for example on the west coast. You'll see that many of the undergrad Asians from the area live at home. We're just not allowed to move out. You'll never see Asians getting kicked out of their houses either or being encouraged to move out of the house. So in regards to that, I can't live on my own in DC during law school, not because physically I'm not allowed to, but because I can't, in good conscience do it without seriously disappointing my family. And don't say, "to hell with your family, its your life", because thats just the way my family is, and I can't disappoint them that way.


You mean heresy, not hearsay. Please don't write heresy on your evidence exam.

Also, you do have a choice. Your choice is to cling to the benefits that your family confers upon you for doing what they tell you to do and not "disappointing" them. Quit bitching about it.

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holybartender
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Re: Is law school tougher in a new state?

Postby holybartender » Mon Apr 12, 2010 7:20 pm

kn6542 wrote: You mean heresy, not hearsay. Please don't write heresy on your evidence exam.

Also, you do have a choice. Your choice is to cling to the benefits that your family confers upon you for doing what they tell you to do and not "disappointing" them. Quit bitching about it.


Does this fall under an exception to the heresy rule?

motiontodismiss
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Re: Is law school tougher in a new state?

Postby motiontodismiss » Mon Apr 12, 2010 7:23 pm

kn6542 wrote:
motiontodismiss wrote:Doing ANYTHING in a new state is tougher.

I really don't get why it matters. Going to law school is a change from whatever you were doing before. Since no U.S. law schools are located in 3d world countries, I'm not sure why it mattes where it is. It's not like there won't be housing, running water, or ppl who speak your language wherever you go. Just a weird question all around.


You're not familiar with the area. You don't know where to go, you don't know anyone, you don't know where the nicest areas are, etc. etc. etc.




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