Tulane/UTK/American

(Applications Advice, Letters of Recommendation . . . )

Where should I go?

Tulane 15k
16
48%
UTK-5k and instate
8
24%
American-11k grant
9
27%
 
Total votes: 33

Jimmy Paperboy
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Tulane/UTK/American

Postby Jimmy Paperboy » Sat Apr 10, 2010 10:42 am

I'm reaching out to you guys.

As far as job prospects I am looking to remain in the south, but would like to have the option to work in DC or NYC.

As of right now there is not a specific specialty that I would like to pursue. Definately open to the prospect of big law though.

I am pretty debt averse but would be willing to take on debt if I have a good chance of landing a well paying job after graduation.

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Gymnast0206
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Re: Tulane/UTK/American

Postby Gymnast0206 » Sat Apr 10, 2010 11:41 am

I vote Tulane.

You're in the south and Tulane has a strong Alumni base. I'm sure they have connections in DC. Tulane is pretty widely respected and New Orleans is beautiful. That would be my pick. Besides, at American you're competing against Georgetown and GWU. You'd be something different coming from Tulane.

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Kchuck
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Re: Tulane/UTK/American

Postby Kchuck » Sat Apr 10, 2010 11:46 am

I'm with Gymnast.

No American.

UT-K if you want to stay in TN.

And Tulane for everything else.

Jimmy Paperboy
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Re: Tulane/UTK/American

Postby Jimmy Paperboy » Sat Apr 10, 2010 12:06 pm

I am giving UTK and Tulane more consideration than American. The main aspect that has me torn is trying to justify that I will have twice the debt at Tulane than I would have at UTK. I have heard numerous things about Tulane's employment prospects ranging from amazing to grim. I have visited both schools and I love both Knoxville and New Orleans. Tulane is a great school and I would love to go there but is it worth paying 2x as much as UTK?

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Gymnast0206
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Re: Tulane/UTK/American

Postby Gymnast0206 » Sat Apr 10, 2010 12:22 pm

Well . . . if I remember correctly UTK is ranked . . .like 54th? 56th? and Tulane is 45th? I mean, to me that says they're pretty much on the same level.

Go to UTK if that's where you want to be.

digitalcntrl
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Re: Tulane/UTK/American

Postby digitalcntrl » Sat Apr 10, 2010 12:35 pm

Jimmy Paperboy wrote:I'm reaching out to you guys.

As far as job prospects I am looking to remain in the south, but would like to have the option to work in DC or NYC.

As of right now there is not a specific specialty that I would like to pursue. Definately open to the prospect of big law though.

I am pretty debt averse but would be willing to take on debt if I have a good chance of landing a well paying job after graduation.


It is a bit confusing whether you are getting a 11K grant or after the grant you will pay 11K to go to American. Either way American is not worth it. American is 42K/year in tutition plus housing which will run on average $1300/month.

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gwuorbust
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Re: Tulane/UTK/American

Postby gwuorbust » Sun Apr 11, 2010 10:50 am

Gymnast0206 wrote:Well . . . if I remember correctly UTK is ranked . . .like 54th? 56th? and Tulane is 45th? I mean, to me that says they're pretty much on the same level.

Go to UTK if that's where you want to be.


In no way are UTK and Tulane on the same level.

We all know that there is little employment data out there on Tulane. For UTK, however, median private sector salary: $69,500 (Class of 2007, 65% reporting)

(note, this was at the peak, before the legal mrkt hit the fan. now I am sure these numbers are much worse.)

IMO, that is pretty grim. Plus, with UTK you are kinda stuck in Tennessee. With Tulane there is some degree of national reach. If you really like Tennessee, however, then it would make the decision easier on your part assuming you are fine w/ living there aftr graduation.

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Gymnast0206
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Re: Tulane/UTK/American

Postby Gymnast0206 » Sun Apr 11, 2010 11:37 am

gwuorbust wrote:
Gymnast0206 wrote:Well . . . if I remember correctly UTK is ranked . . .like 54th? 56th? and Tulane is 45th? I mean, to me that says they're pretty much on the same level.

Go to UTK if that's where you want to be.


In no way are UTK and Tulane on the same level.

We all know that there is little employment data out there on Tulane. For UTK, however, median private sector salary: $69,500 (Class of 2007, 65% reporting)

(note, this was at the peak, before the legal mrkt hit the fan. now I am sure these numbers are much worse.)

IMO, that is pretty grim. Plus, with UTK you are kinda stuck in Tennessee. With Tulane there is some degree of national reach. If you really like Tennessee, however, then it would make the decision easier on your part assuming you are fine w/ living there aftr graduation.


I simply meant as far as academics and what you will learn, they're going to be on the same level. Moreover, Tulane is more focused on increasing in ranking via numbers whereas UTK isn't. Also, Tulane is on its way down the rankings while UTK is moving up.

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gwuorbust
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Re: Tulane/UTK/American

Postby gwuorbust » Sun Apr 11, 2010 2:21 pm

Gymnast0206 wrote:
gwuorbust wrote:
Gymnast0206 wrote:Well . . . if I remember correctly UTK is ranked . . .like 54th? 56th? and Tulane is 45th? I mean, to me that says they're pretty much on the same level.

Go to UTK if that's where you want to be.


In no way are UTK and Tulane on the same level.

We all know that there is little employment data out there on Tulane. For UTK, however, median private sector salary: $69,500 (Class of 2007, 65% reporting)

(note, this was at the peak, before the legal mrkt hit the fan. now I am sure these numbers are much worse.)

IMO, that is pretty grim. Plus, with UTK you are kinda stuck in Tennessee. With Tulane there is some degree of national reach. If you really like Tennessee, however, then it would make the decision easier on your part assuming you are fine w/ living there aftr graduation.


I simply meant as far as academics and what you will learn, they're going to be on the same level. Moreover, Tulane is more focused on increasing in ranking via numbers whereas UTK isn't. Also, Tulane is on its way down the rankings while UTK is moving up.


1. True. There is not a substantial difference in how the law it taught at most schools (we are not talking difference btwn Yale and Cooley here). Now the quality may vary a bit w/ better professors at better schools, but Torts is Torts in general.

2. False. The exact opposite has historically been true for Tulane. They have been more focused on letting in candidates they like than having full number-only focus and cut-offs.

3. False again. Unless you have somehow seen the newest USNWR ranking most ppl agree that Tulane should be ranked in the 30s. It is becoming increasingly difficult to get into Tulane. Look at LSN: In 07/08 161 was an auto-admit. In 08/09 162 was an auto-admit and many 161 were WL or Dinged. and this 09/10 cycle even many 164s have been dinged.

so +1
-2
---
-1

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PDaddy
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Re: Tulane/UTK/American

Postby PDaddy » Sun Apr 11, 2010 2:35 pm

Gymnast0206 wrote:I vote Tulane.

You're in the south and Tulane has a strong Alumni base. I'm sure they have connections in DC. Tulane is pretty widely respected and New Orleans is beautiful. That would be my pick. Besides, at American you're competing against Georgetown and GWU. You'd be something different coming from Tulane.


There's no question about what you should do. Do you like Cajun?

Based on teaching quality, reputation and faculty scholarship, Tulane deserves to be ranked in the early-30's, if not the late-20's, and is very likely on its way up in ranking. Don't be shocked if it's ranked 38 or so this year and 30 or so next year.

--LinkRemoved--

Read the above article, and you'll understand why people keep saying Tulane is grossly underrated...and underRANKED. Hit the "ONE CLICK DOWNLOAD" link.

The spread of "intellectual capital" between institutions is important in assessing the relative faculty and teaching qualities right? On the bubble diagram, use your mouse to draw a square from UNC (located near bottom right center) to Tulane (upper right center) and you'll see that there is a consistent group of "intellectual superspreaders"(of scholarly influence) - if we think of knowledge as spreading like a virus through many channels, with the "hosts" being students, graduates, faculty, scholarly research and the like - that includes Tulane and leaves out schools ranked well above it.

The rankings resulting from the researchers' findings further support this (read lower in the analysis). In terms of intellectual capital and influence on other institutions, Tulane is easily within the top-25 law schools, as it repeatedly ranks near or above schools in the top-20, such as Vanderbilt and Emory.
Last edited by PDaddy on Sun Apr 11, 2010 2:57 pm, edited 7 times in total.

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Gymnast0206
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Re: Tulane/UTK/American

Postby Gymnast0206 » Sun Apr 11, 2010 2:40 pm

I'm not quite sure why you believe you have the authority to simply tell me I'm wrong and let that stand. However, what I've said about Tulane is my opinion. When I visited Tulane, I thought it was run more as a business. They openly discussed their desire to move up in rankings and being focused on the numbers so that they could do so. I suppose we'll see whether or not Tulane is moving up or down in about three days . . . I'd bet every penny I have that it won't break T30. I'm still cautiously optimistic, however, that I'm right in suspecting Tulane going down in ranks. If it does increase, it won't be by that much.

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gwuorbust
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Re: Tulane/UTK/American

Postby gwuorbust » Sun Apr 11, 2010 3:05 pm

Gymnast0206 wrote:I'm not quite sure why you believe you have the authority to simply tell me I'm wrong and let that stand. However, what I've said about Tulane is my opinion. When I visited Tulane, I thought it was run more as a business. They openly discussed their desire to move up in rankings and being focused on the numbers so that they could do so. I suppose we'll see whether or not Tulane is moving up or down in about three days . . . I'd bet every penny I have that it won't break T30. I'm still cautiously optimistic, however, that I'm right in suspecting Tulane going down in ranks. If it does increase, it won't be by that much.


I really don't understand what this sentence means. If "I'm right in suspecting Tulane going down in ranks" is suppose to mean: "Tulane is going down in the rankings" then I have to again say that unless you have some 'insider information' that neither of us know where Tulane is going.

I presented a rational, numbers based case that you can look at LSN yourself and confirm as true. Tulane is becoming increasingly hard to get into. Look at the graph. While you can believe whatever you like, I am just saying what I the data indicates that their medians are going up. Increasing medians would mean an increase in their ranking.

Plus, you can also look at the graphs and see that while Tulane is becoming more focused on higher numbers (which would go against your very assertion that they are going to fall in the ranking) you can see in the graph that they do make exceptions. Compare that to graph of American and you will see what I mean.

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Bustang
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Re: Tulane/UTK/American

Postby Bustang » Sun Apr 11, 2010 3:29 pm

I hate the fact that in every Tulane thread there are 2-3 posters that boast about "exceptional alumni" and Tulane's ability to "place in the South" but I have yet to see any kind of numbers or statistics to back those claims up. There are very few partners/associates from Tulane in Houston/Dallas (at the big firms) and the school didn't make the recent NLJ250 list where they ranked schools based upon the # of kids they put in those firms whereas every Texas school aside from Baylor and tttech did. Furthermore, I've seen a few posts on here (we can argue as to whether or not they're credited) about how 3Ls at Tulane are facing tremendous difficulties in finding employment outside of NOLA etc. Finally, for all those who say New Orleans is "beautiful", have you visited? I found the area surrounding Tulane to be an absolute shit-hole. Aside from the mansions none of us can afford, the area is riddled with shotgun houses, terrible looking restaurants, absolutely awful roads and a vast amount of homeless people. It made the area surrounding U of H look like a cake walk (In before people start talking about the tourist areas/parks in the french quarter).


Someone prove me wrong. I don't want to waste 300 dollars on a seat deposit there.

pocket herc
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Re: Tulane/UTK/American

Postby pocket herc » Sun Apr 11, 2010 3:48 pm

as far as overstating the case for Tulane's alumni, representation, etc. I agree only to the extent that there are a few people here who simply OVERLY enamored with the school and do not have a realistic perception of the marketability of a Tulane Law degree. I tend to think Tulane's ranking is accurate enough, and it has remained in the 40's for at least the two prior decades with the exception of one year I believe, when it fell into the 50's. Now as to New Orleans, and specifically the area around Tulane...just simply false (though the roads are horrible, this is indisputable). First, as to the area abutting Tulane...venture into Audobon Park, which is beautiful. Go down to the fly, a great place to hang out. Walk around State St., or Palmer, or the many streets that intersect St. Charles pretty much along its length. You will, if you are being at all honest, find much to be amazed by. New Orleans is an admixture of the best and worst, it is a patchwork. But god is there a lot to enjoy, whether it be the French Quarter (which is much more than Bourbon) or Magazine St., Frenchmen St., the River Bend. And shitty restaurants? Uhm...no. Quite the opposite. That is just a ridiculous claim, though I suppose I might have to allow that you could have very very particular tastes. And I haven't even gotten into the rare spirit of the city, there is always a party, a festival, a concert, or a po-boy appreciation day. City has a rhythm and a character like no place else in the country. It has it flaws, and it has some very tragic elements, and sometimes I feel like a voyeur because I get to soak in all the good stuff and not have to bear the burdens of the bad. Anyway, I have gone on too long, but I just felt obliged to respond to a careless dismissal of the city.

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Bustang
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Re: Tulane/UTK/American

Postby Bustang » Sun Apr 11, 2010 4:03 pm

Shitty looking does not equate to poor tasting. I'm not sure how I "carelessly" described the city. I drove through campus and the surrounding area during the NCAA tournament. I'm glad I did because it essentially finalized my decision to stay in Texas. I'm not going to argue with you about whether or not there are nice areas surrounding Tulane. Obviously, there are. However, the area immediately surrounding Tulane, including "midtown" iirc, are absolutely dreadful.

pocket herc
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Re: Tulane/UTK/American

Postby pocket herc » Sun Apr 11, 2010 4:19 pm

haha, alright man. Don't mean to differ with with your decision to stay in Texas, if it worked out for you that's great. "terrible-looking" restaurants is pretty ambiguous as to its meaning, and I would even say on a purely-aesthetic level many of the restaurants are quite fine looking, but whatever. As to a restaurant's essential purpose, they deliver. Mid-city isn't too hot, no argument there, though it isn't part of Tulane's immediate surroundings. The general thrust of your description, so far as I could tell, was that New Orleans was something far less than wonderful, and I just wanted to put in my two cents that that just isn't so. But it isn't for everyone, and only a visit will settle the matter for each individual.

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gwuorbust
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Re: Tulane/UTK/American

Postby gwuorbust » Sun Apr 11, 2010 4:21 pm

pocket herc wrote:haha, alright man. Don't mean to differ with with your decision to stay in Texas, if it worked out for you that's great. "terrible-looking" restaurants is pretty ambiguous as to its meaning, and I would even say on a purely-aesthetic level many of the restaurants are quite fine looking, but whatever. As to a restaurant's essential purpose, they deliver. Mid-city isn't too hot, no argument there, though it isn't part of Tulane's immediate surroundings. The general thrust of your description, so far as I could tell, was that New Orleans was something far less than wonderful, and I just wanted to put in my two cents that that just isn't so. But it isn't for everyone, and only a visit will settle the matter for each individual.


yeah, applying an objective description 'New Orleans sucks!' to something that is inherently individually subjective is bound to be problematic.

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PDaddy
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Re: Tulane/UTK/American

Postby PDaddy » Mon Apr 12, 2010 1:48 am

The NLJ lists/rankings are baffling. I, too, wonder why Tulane - if it is as good as advertized - doesn't place better in the NLJ-250 lists, while it does well in the NLJ-100. :? However, I must say that, just a few years ago (2005 to be exact), schools like Loyola, Temple, Villanova, and Chicago Kent didn't place well, yet, in 2008, they made the top-50. I have a feeling Tulane was once a top school for employment and lost some of its luster after Katrina (but still consistently places at 12-13%). If Katrina caused some of the dropoff, Tulane is about to get its swagger back. I have also seen a list of NLJ-100 employment, and Tulane outplaces schools ranked well above it there...so that it is in approximately the top-20 or top-25. When I re-locate the list, I will post the link.

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Bustang
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Re: Tulane/UTK/American

Postby Bustang » Mon Apr 12, 2010 10:19 am

PDaddy wrote:The NLJ lists/rankings are baffling. I, too, wonder why Tulane - if it is as good as advertized - doesn't place better in the NLJ-250 lists, while it does well in the NLJ-100. :? However, I must say that, just a few years ago (2005 to be exact), schools like Loyola, Temple, Villanova, and Chicago Kent didn't place well, yet, in 2008, they made the top-50. I have a feeling Tulane was once a top school for employment and lost some of its luster after Katrina (but still consistently places at 12-13%). If Katrina caused some of the dropoff, Tulane is about to get its swagger back. I have also seen a list of NLJ-100 employment, and Tulane outplaces schools ranked well above it there...so that it is in approximately the top-20 or top-25. When I re-locate the list, I will post the link.


Please do!

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Bert
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Re: Tulane/UTK/American

Postby Bert » Mon Apr 12, 2010 10:27 am

I would like to see the list as well.




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