3.25 and t6, possible?

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saltoftheearth
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Re: 3.25 and t6, possible?

Postby saltoftheearth » Mon Apr 05, 2010 4:28 pm

CMDantes wrote:Pretty much the only bad thing about my application will be the horrendous GPA.


+ avg softs + no LSAT score

with anything below a 173, your chances at the T10 don't are not great (with pulling an ED)

so study hard

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kittenmittons
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Re: 3.25 and t6, possible?

Postby kittenmittons » Mon Apr 05, 2010 4:32 pm

ENJOY NORTHWESTERN

09042014
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Re: 3.25 and t6, possible?

Postby 09042014 » Mon Apr 05, 2010 4:33 pm

kittenmittons wrote:ENJOY NORTHWESTERN


lol so true.

CMDantes
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Re: 3.25 and t6, possible?

Postby CMDantes » Mon Apr 05, 2010 5:18 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
And the difference between a 175 and a 180 is having to take a piss during one 35 minute section.

Once you get past 173ish area the LSAT isn't about how smart you are, its about how detailed you can be under pressures, plus a large helping of luck.

I see your point about one year destroying your chances, but what the does LSAT have to do with it?


I definitely agree with you on that. I shouldn't have said 'genius' in relation to a 180, I recognize it's mostly about luck at that point.

I brought up the LSAT mainly due to the extreme importance schools seem to give their rankings. It seems like a 180 would be pretty desirable, even with the resulting dip in their GPA median. Desirable enough to give someone a shot, anyway.

To scribelaw: my apologies for getting defensive, but no one likes being judged...regardless of the validity behind the judgement. I know law schools admissions is all about that, but I'd rather leave it to them to assess my worthiness.

What's this about northwestern btw? They not give a shit about GPA?

Edited for clarity
Last edited by CMDantes on Mon Apr 05, 2010 5:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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kittenmittons
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Re: 3.25 and t6, possible?

Postby kittenmittons » Mon Apr 05, 2010 5:19 pm

CMDantes wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
And the difference between a 175 and a 180 is having to take a piss during one 35 minute section.

Once you get past 173ish area the LSAT isn't about how smart you are, its about how detailed you can be under pressures, plus a large helping of luck.

I see your point about one year destroying your chances, but what the does LSAT have to do with it?


I definitely agree with you on that. I shouldn't have said 'genius' in relation to a 180, I recognize it's mostly about luck at that point.

I brought up the LSAT mainly due to the extreme importance schools seem to give their rankings. It seems like a 180 would be pretty desirable, even with the resulting dip in their GPA median. Desirable enough to give someone a shot, anyway.

To scribelaw: my apologies for getting defensive, but no one likes being judged...regardless of the validity behind the judgement.

What's this about northwestern btw? They not give a shit about GPA?

About Northwete

http://northwestern.lawschoolnumbers.com/stats

CMDantes
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Re: 3.25 and t6, possible?

Postby CMDantes » Mon Apr 05, 2010 5:23 pm

kittenmittons wrote:
CMDantes wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
And the difference between a 175 and a 180 is having to take a piss during one 35 minute section.

Once you get past 173ish area the LSAT isn't about how smart you are, its about how detailed you can be under pressures, plus a large helping of luck.

I see your point about one year destroying your chances, but what the does LSAT have to do with it?


I definitely agree with you on that. I shouldn't have said 'genius' in relation to a 180, I recognize it's mostly about luck at that point.

I brought up the LSAT mainly due to the extreme importance schools seem to give their rankings. It seems like a 180 would be pretty desirable, even with the resulting dip in their GPA median. Desirable enough to give someone a shot, anyway.

To scribelaw: my apologies for getting defensive, but no one likes being judged...regardless of the validity behind the judgement.

What's this about northwestern btw? They not give a shit about GPA?

About Northwete

http://northwestern.lawschoolnumbers.com/stats


lol that 2.7 acceptance is encouraging

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flyingpanda
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Re: 3.25 and t6, possible?

Postby flyingpanda » Mon Apr 05, 2010 5:25 pm

Get your LSAT score first before you even start dreaming of these schools.

CMDantes
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Re: 3.25 and t6, possible?

Postby CMDantes » Mon Apr 05, 2010 5:29 pm

aznflyingpanda wrote:Get your LSAT score first before you even start dreaming of these schools.


Meh, nothing wrong with wishful thinking while bored at work.

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KibblesAndVick
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Re: 3.25 and t6, possible?

Postby KibblesAndVick » Mon Apr 05, 2010 5:30 pm

Desert Fox wrote:And the difference between a 175 and a 180 is having to take a piss during one 35 minute section.

Once you get past 173ish area the LSAT isn't about how smart you are, its about how detailed you can be under pressures, plus a large helping of luck.

I see your point about one year destroying your chances, but what the does LSAT have to do with it?


This is spot on. Similarly, and equally disheartening, law schools don't give a damn how you earned your GPA unless something really horrible happened to you. Learning about law school admissions has made me realize it's one of the least holistic processes imaginable. I lol every time a school claims to have "holistic" admissions. Even though I stand to gain a great deal from the system thinking about it(or more specifically why there isn't more being done to change it) makes my brain bleed.
Last edited by KibblesAndVick on Mon Apr 05, 2010 5:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

09042014
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Re: 3.25 and t6, possible?

Postby 09042014 » Mon Apr 05, 2010 5:30 pm

CMDantes wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
And the difference between a 175 and a 180 is having to take a piss during one 35 minute section.

Once you get past 173ish area the LSAT isn't about how smart you are, its about how detailed you can be under pressures, plus a large helping of luck.

I see your point about one year destroying your chances, but what the does LSAT have to do with it?


I definitely agree with you on that. I shouldn't have said 'genius' in relation to a 180, I recognize it's mostly about luck at that point.

I brought up the LSAT mainly due to the extreme importance schools seem to give their rankings. It seems like a 180 would be pretty desirable, even with the resulting dip in their GPA median. Desirable enough to give someone a shot, anyway.

To scribelaw: my apologies for getting defensive, but no one likes being judged...regardless of the validity behind the judgement. I know law schools admissions is all about that, but I'd rather leave it to them to assess my worthiness.

What's this about northwestern btw? They not give a shit about GPA?

Edited for clarity


These top schools can find enough people who didn't screw up, and have a great LSAT to more than fill their classes. I can't hold it against them that they are choosy.

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rayiner
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Re: 3.25 and t6, possible?

Postby rayiner » Mon Apr 05, 2010 5:39 pm

I brought up the LSAT mainly due to the extreme importance schools seem to give their rankings. It seems like a 180 would be pretty desirable, even with the resulting dip in their GPA median. Desirable enough to give someone a shot, anyway.


The rankings uses the median score. Even Yale has a 173 median. For rankings purposes, a 173 and a 180 are the same.

I know of one sub-3.4 who got into a T6, and she had a 3.1/180, at a top grade-deflating university (U of Chicago), and got in off the waitlist.

You have no hope of T6 even with a 180.

You have a good shot at T7-14 if you can get a 172+ LSAT, though. If you rock a 172, I'd focus on MVPN.

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flyingpanda
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Re: 3.25 and t6, possible?

Postby flyingpanda » Mon Apr 05, 2010 5:42 pm

Admissions aren't perfect, but the way they are now at least gives GPA fails like me and DF a chance to crack the t10.

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kittenmittons
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Re: 3.25 and t6, possible?

Postby kittenmittons » Mon Apr 05, 2010 5:43 pm

aznflyingpanda wrote:Admissions aren't perfect, but the way they are now at least gives GPA fails like me and DF a chance to crack the t10.

Lawl @ UVA or Auschwitz-Chicago being T10

09042014
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Re: 3.25 and t6, possible?

Postby 09042014 » Mon Apr 05, 2010 5:46 pm

KibblesAndVick wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:And the difference between a 175 and a 180 is having to take a piss during one 35 minute section.

Once you get past 173ish area the LSAT isn't about how smart you are, its about how detailed you can be under pressures, plus a large helping of luck.

I see your point about one year destroying your chances, but what the does LSAT have to do with it?


This is spot on. Similarly, and equally disheartening, law schools don't give a damn how you earned your GPA unless something really horrible happened to you. Learning about law school admissions has made me realize it's one of the least holistic processes imaginable. I lol every time a school claims to have "holistic" admissions. Even though I stand to gain a great deal from the system thinking about it(or more specifically why there isn't more being done to change it) makes my brain bleed.


The real problem with law school admissions is that the background of the applicants vary to such a large degree, and because of that the admissions lack good criteria to
judge applicants.

Take engineering grad school for example. They usually require very substantial coursework in the specific field of engineering. So you've got mostly BS in EE applying to PhD in EE programs. So they know your coursework and what your grades mean. They take into account the difficultly of your undergrad program. They know what sort of research is good. They know which company is good to work for.

The applicants are all directly comparable. But there is no prelaw coursework, and law schools prefer it that way. They want to be your entire law education. It is like you are applying to College 2.0. So they rely on GPA, and a standardized test.

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flyingpanda
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Re: 3.25 and t6, possible?

Postby flyingpanda » Mon Apr 05, 2010 5:47 pm

kittenmittons wrote:
aznflyingpanda wrote:Admissions aren't perfect, but the way they are now at least gives GPA fails like me and DF a chance to crack the t10.

Lawl @ UVA or Auschwitz-Chicago being T10


Better than UT, amirite?

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kittenmittons
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Re: 3.25 and t6, possible?

Postby kittenmittons » Mon Apr 05, 2010 5:48 pm

aznflyingpanda wrote:
kittenmittons wrote:
aznflyingpanda wrote:Admissions aren't perfect, but the way they are now at least gives GPA fails like me and DF a chance to crack the t10.

Lawl @ UVA or Auschwitz-Chicago being T10

Better than UT, amirite?

How dare you disrespect the University of Tennessee, it's a venerable institution.

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FlanAl
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Re: 3.25 and t6, possible?

Postby FlanAl » Mon Apr 05, 2010 5:49 pm

i feel like this might be hijacking so feel free to completely disregard but what about someone with grades essentially the equivalent of this but with no LSDAS GPA (international student)? Still ruled out of the t6?

CMDantes
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Re: 3.25 and t6, possible?

Postby CMDantes » Mon Apr 05, 2010 6:15 pm

rayiner wrote:
I brought up the LSAT mainly due to the extreme importance schools seem to give their rankings. It seems like a 180 would be pretty desirable, even with the resulting dip in their GPA median. Desirable enough to give someone a shot, anyway.


The rankings uses the median score. Even Yale has a 173 median. For rankings purposes, a 173 and a 180 are the same.

I know of one sub-3.4 who got into a T6, and she had a 3.1/180, at a top grade-deflating university (U of Chicago), and got in off the waitlist.

You have no hope of T6 even with a 180.

You have a good shot at T7-14 if you can get a 172+ LSAT, though. If you rock a 172, I'd focus on MVPN.


Desert Fox wrote:
The real problem with law school admissions is that the background of the applicants vary to such a large degree, and because of that the admissions lack good criteria to
judge applicants.

Take engineering grad school for example. They usually require very substantial coursework in the specific field of engineering. So you've got mostly BS in EE applying to PhD in EE programs. So they know your coursework and what your grades mean. They take into account the difficultly of your undergrad program. They know what sort of research is good. They know which company is good to work for.

The applicants are all directly comparable. But there is no prelaw coursework, and law schools prefer it that way. They want to be your entire law education. It is like you are applying to College 2.0. So they rely on GPA, and a standardized test.


I agree with you guys, I really do. I just feel that the entire process would be improved if they actually were a bit more holistic. Seems like the schools are potentially missing out on some truly great candidates because of their strict adherence to the numbers. I understand the necessity, though. I'll just have to keep busting my ass and distinguish myself in other ways once I'm in/done with law school.

For the record, I've pretty much accepted the fact that even the top ten is a long shot for me. Although I'm PTing pretty well and steadily improving, I'm not so stupid as to bank on a high LSAT score.

I want to work in Texas anyway, so if I get into UT (15*) I'll be pretty happy. They have amazing placement in Texas. If I do manage to get into the top 10, it will just make me that much happier. Not banking on it.

Anyway thanks again to everyone for the thoughtful responses and debate.




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