Backdoor(s) to law school admission. List 'em.

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r6_philly
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Re: Backdoor(s) to law school admission. List 'em.

Postby r6_philly » Sat Mar 27, 2010 5:43 pm

wired wrote:Threatening to sue because you have a disability.


that sounds like a backdoor OUT of law school.

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tinman
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Re: Backdoor(s) to law school admission. List 'em.

Postby tinman » Sat Mar 27, 2010 5:47 pm

tomhobbes wrote:
tinman wrote:
Sergio454 wrote:Legacy status, from what I remember, was a big deal for undergrad. But how big a role does it play in law school admissions?


I don't know, but an alarming number of YLS students had parents who went here. Not sure whether they get a legacy boast. I would hope not. Not such a big fan of such injustices. As if having wealthy, well educated parents who could give advice about gaining admission to top law schools was not enough, legacies get admitted with LOWER stats. Wouldn't you think, in a just world, legacies would be required to have better stats to gain admission?

I suppose when I am a parent I may not mind all the unfair advantages I can give to my children, but I'm not quite at that point yet.


Just out of curiosity, are there any sons or daughters of famous people there right now? And what percentage of YLS students come from Ivies and other elite schools?


No one spectacularly famous that I can think of, but we have sons and daughters of Congressmen, professors, school deans. There might be the children of super famous people that I don't know of.

I think more than 15% of the class comes from HYP. I don't know what you consider super elite, but a lot of people come from top 30 undergraduate institutions. We you visit in April, I can give you my Yale Facebook (an actual book that lists our undergraduate institutions), and you can see where all the current students are from.

Wow, of the 16 people in my small group, 9 of us have studied previously at HYP (6 for undergraduate). That percentage seems high to me.

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Pausanias
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Re: Backdoor(s) to law school admission. List 'em.

Postby Pausanias » Sat Mar 27, 2010 8:09 pm

Just looking at the present composition of the 2013 YLS facebook group, about 1/3 are HYP. Quite substantial. If you include Ivy and Stanford, it's more like 2/3.

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englawyer
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Re: Backdoor(s) to law school admission. List 'em.

Postby englawyer » Sat Mar 27, 2010 10:22 pm

for those that are against legacy status.... i agree but i also see that it is just as arbitrary/unfair as LSAT. most people have a cap over which they will never score, but they could still be great attorneys; due to a single 3 hour test they will not get into elite schools. how is that more or less "fair" than legacy? and if you want to say law schools should produce the best attorneys, someone from prominence will be better connected, know how to play the game, and have better access to clients. thus they would probably end up being the "better" attorney at least in terms of $$.

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tinman
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Re: Backdoor(s) to law school admission. List 'em.

Postby tinman » Sat Mar 27, 2010 10:30 pm

englawyer wrote:for those that are against legacy status.... i agree but i also see that it is just as arbitrary/unfair as LSAT. most people have a cap over which they will never score, but they could still be great attorneys; due to a single 3 hour test they will not get into elite schools. how is that more or less "fair" than legacy? and if you want to say law schools should produce the best attorneys, someone from prominence will be better connected, know how to play the game, and have better access to clients. thus they would probably end up being the "better" attorney at least in terms of $$.


haha. you are probably right. Within reason, more connected people will probably get further will less merit (think GW Bush). It greatly offends my meritocratic sense of justice, but perhaps people from prominent families should get a "elite pedigree" boast when applying to law school (in addition to it already helping them get into better undergrad schools, have money for tutors, prep courses, helping them accrue better "softs" before law school).

Perhaps their should be a nepotism section on the application where people can fill out all the family connections that will give them unmerited advantages in the future. Perhaps schools should even require recommendations from prominent social contacts that are willing to offer your jobs regardless of how crappy you perform in law school.

I agree that this things matter to an embarrassing degree.

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englawyer
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Re: Backdoor(s) to law school admission. List 'em.

Postby englawyer » Sat Mar 27, 2010 10:39 pm

tinman wrote:Perhaps their should be a nepotism section on the application where people can fill out all the family connections that will give them unmerited advantages in the future. Perhaps schools should even require recommendations from prominent social contacts that are willing to offer your jobs regardless of how crappy you perform in law school.

I agree that this things matter to an embarrassing degree.


haha..you should see an MBA application. they have those sections :P :P

perhaps law schools should try to hold the line of academic meritocracy and lead the nepotism to business schools.

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mps
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Re: Backdoor(s) to law school admission. List 'em.

Postby mps » Sat Mar 27, 2010 10:47 pm

i've always wondered, how much money do we think one must give to those schools to be considered with sub par numbers? are we thinking it must be over $1 million? or would like $500,000 make a pretty generous impression? i dont know why i spend time pondering this.

wired
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Re: Backdoor(s) to law school admission. List 'em.

Postby wired » Sun Mar 28, 2010 12:56 am

tinman wrote:
englawyer wrote:for those that are against legacy status.... i agree but i also see that it is just as arbitrary/unfair as LSAT. most people have a cap over which they will never score, but they could still be great attorneys; due to a single 3 hour test they will not get into elite schools. how is that more or less "fair" than legacy? and if you want to say law schools should produce the best attorneys, someone from prominence will be better connected, know how to play the game, and have better access to clients. thus they would probably end up being the "better" attorney at least in terms of $$.


haha. you are probably right. Within reason, more connected people will probably get further will less merit (think GW Bush). It greatly offends my meritocratic sense of justice, but perhaps people from prominent families should get a "elite pedigree" boast when applying to law school (in addition to it already helping them get into better undergrad schools, have money for tutors, prep courses, helping them accrue better "softs" before law school).

Perhaps their should be a nepotism section on the application where people can fill out all the family connections that will give them unmerited advantages in the future. Perhaps schools should even require recommendations from prominent social contacts that are willing to offer your jobs regardless of how crappy you perform in law school.

I agree that this things matter to an embarrassing degree.


Actually, economically, I would think that the legacy status would be just as important as the GPA/LSAT to law schools. Admitting students who are well connected provides a positive externality for all of the non-legacy students in the class. If you admit a class of unconnected geniuses, the class would have less connections than one that spans mediocre connected and non-connected genius.

erniesto
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Re: Backdoor(s) to law school admission. List 'em.

Postby erniesto » Sun Mar 28, 2010 1:04 am

Jules Winnfield wrote:Part-time programs.


USNews took care of this one.

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flyingpanda
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Re: Backdoor(s) to law school admission. List 'em.

Postby flyingpanda » Sun Mar 28, 2010 2:24 am

erniesto wrote:
Jules Winnfield wrote:Part-time programs.


USNews took care of this one.


Not really

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BioEBear2010
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Re: Backdoor(s) to law school admission. List 'em.

Postby BioEBear2010 » Sun Mar 28, 2010 2:31 am

Pausanias wrote:Just looking at the present composition of the 2013 YLS facebook group, about 1/3 are HYP. Quite substantial. If you include Ivy and Stanford, it's more like 2/3.

Yay for being a lowly public school kid :D

And I don't know where I stand on legacy admissions. It makes sense for a school to want to admit children of alumni (more donations), but it does seem unfair that children of (likely) well off parents get an admissions bump when they (again, likely) have more resources around them.

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tomhobbes
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Re: Backdoor(s) to law school admission. List 'em.

Postby tomhobbes » Sun Mar 28, 2010 2:48 am

BioEBear2010 wrote:
Pausanias wrote:Just looking at the present composition of the 2013 YLS facebook group, about 1/3 are HYP. Quite substantial. If you include Ivy and Stanford, it's more like 2/3.

Yay for being a lowly public school kid :D

And I don't know where I stand on legacy admissions. It makes sense for a school to want to admit children of alumni (more donations), but it does seem unfair that children of (likely) well off parents get an admissions bump when they (again, likely) have more resources around them.


Ah, to go to Berkeley. Get Ivy-level education and prestige, claim state school moral high ground.

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BioEBear2010
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Re: Backdoor(s) to law school admission. List 'em.

Postby BioEBear2010 » Sun Mar 28, 2010 2:50 am

tomhobbes wrote:
BioEBear2010 wrote:
Pausanias wrote:Just looking at the present composition of the 2013 YLS facebook group, about 1/3 are HYP. Quite substantial. If you include Ivy and Stanford, it's more like 2/3.

Yay for being a lowly public school kid :D

And I don't know where I stand on legacy admissions. It makes sense for a school to want to admit children of alumni (more donations), but it does seem unfair that children of (likely) well off parents get an admissions bump when they (again, likely) have more resources around them.


Ah, to go to Berkeley. Get Ivy-level education and prestige when you need it, claim state school moral high ground when you want it.

And it's cheap! Best of all worlds, really.

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tomhobbes
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Re: Backdoor(s) to law school admission. List 'em.

Postby tomhobbes » Sun Mar 28, 2010 2:52 am

BioEBear2010 wrote:
tomhobbes wrote:
BioEBear2010 wrote:
Pausanias wrote:Just looking at the present composition of the 2013 YLS facebook group, about 1/3 are HYP. Quite substantial. If you include Ivy and Stanford, it's more like 2/3.

Yay for being a lowly public school kid :D

And I don't know where I stand on legacy admissions. It makes sense for a school to want to admit children of alumni (more donations), but it does seem unfair that children of (likely) well off parents get an admissions bump when they (again, likely) have more resources around them.


Ah, to go to Berkeley. Get Ivy-level education and prestige when you need it, claim state school moral high ground when you want it.

And it's cheap! Best of all worlds, really.


Well I hear when you include the girls there, it's the worst of all worlds.

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BioEBear2010
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Re: Backdoor(s) to law school admission. List 'em.

Postby BioEBear2010 » Sun Mar 28, 2010 2:55 am

tomhobbes wrote:
BioEBear2010 wrote:And it's cheap! Best of all worlds, really.


Well I hear when you include the girls there, it's the worst of all worlds.

Bazinga. We can't all go to a school in the South, you lucky dog (or, rather, Tide).

I just came back from spring break at home in LA, and boy did I chose the wrong UC.

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PDaddy
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Re: Backdoor(s) to law school admission. List 'em.

Postby PDaddy » Sun Mar 28, 2010 3:26 am

acdisagod wrote:Commit a felony, go to prison, master the law, go to Michigan.


+1 LOL.

Also, for URM's, it's CLEO/Indiana CLEO, CHH (the toughest one to get into) and other law preparatories. Using SEO and UNCF prior to junior year can be helpful.

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bigchris1313
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Re: Backdoor(s) to law school admission. List 'em.

Postby bigchris1313 » Sun Mar 28, 2010 3:43 pm

BioEBear2010 wrote:
tomhobbes wrote:
BioEBear2010 wrote:
Pausanias wrote:Just looking at the present composition of the 2013 YLS facebook group, about 1/3 are HYP. Quite substantial. If you include Ivy and Stanford, it's more like 2/3.

Yay for being a lowly public school kid :D

And I don't know where I stand on legacy admissions. It makes sense for a school to want to admit children of alumni (more donations), but it does seem unfair that children of (likely) well off parents get an admissions bump when they (again, likely) have more resources around them.


Ah, to go to Berkeley. Get Ivy-level education and prestige when you need it, claim state school moral high ground when you want it.

And it's cheap! Best of all worlds, really.


Not for long...

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danidancer
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Re: Backdoor(s) to law school admission. List 'em.

Postby danidancer » Sun Mar 28, 2010 11:58 pm

Sergio454 wrote:Legacy status, from what I remember, was a big deal for undergrad. But how big a role does it play in law school admissions?


Without getting into too much detail and blowing my internet anonymity, I think my family's connection to one of the (usually stingy) schools I applied to definitely helped me net some sway-worthy scholarship money. And this was a university connection, not even a connection with the LS...

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PDaddy
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Re: Backdoor(s) to law school admission. List 'em.

Postby PDaddy » Mon Mar 29, 2010 3:00 am

I forgot another back door: Getting admitted to B-School or another grad program at the college or university can score points, depending on the school. I mean, you're already at the school, right? They give weight to that.

In fact, NULaw takes it one step further. It has a transparent backdoor to its 3-yr JD/MBA program via it's B-School (no LSAT required!)

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romothesavior
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Re: Backdoor(s) to law school admission. List 'em.

Postby romothesavior » Mon Mar 29, 2010 3:04 am

I dunno what the "backdoor" into top law schools is. You tell us, Asha.

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Mattalones
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Re: Backdoor(s) to law school admission. List 'em.

Postby Mattalones » Mon Mar 29, 2010 3:39 am

Make an appointment with the admissions dean to talk with them over a meal while they are in your town for a law school forum. It got me into a reach school with a scholarship ... and a free meal :-)

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MURPH
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Re: Backdoor(s) to law school admission. List 'em.

Postby MURPH » Mon Mar 29, 2010 5:50 am

PDaddy wrote:I forgot another back door: Getting admitted to B-School or another grad program at the college or university can score points, depending on the school. I mean, you're already at the school, right? They give weight to that.

In fact, NULaw takes it one step further. It has a transparent backdoor to its 3-yr JD/MBA program via it's B-School (no LSAT required!)

This is actually a pretty good strategy. Most law schools have cross disciplinary courses offered. If, for example, you were in a philosophy program you could take a law and philosophy course one semester and a jurisprudence course another semester. Take courses with law school professors not philosophy professors. Get A's, participate, visit office hours, etc then hit them up for LORs. Certainly two strong LORs from professors at that particular school who can actually attest that you are capable of doing excellent work would be a strong soft.

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MURPH
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Re: Backdoor(s) to law school admission. List 'em.

Postby MURPH » Tue Mar 30, 2010 11:10 am

You're right. It is a terrible strategy if you try to get into a harder program as a way of sneaking into a better program. But some schools have crappy grad school programs. If for example, the school has very low admissions standards for a Political Science master's degree but grad school students can take some law classes then it is a good strategy. You spend a year getting some stupid degree (preferably one you have an intellectual interest in), maybe even on a scholarship if you are smart and the program is weak. Then you at least have a boost compared to other applicants.

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tinman
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Re: Backdoor(s) to law school admission. List 'em.

Postby tinman » Tue Mar 30, 2010 8:29 pm

Peter North wrote:Fair enough. Agreed.

But the thing to keep in mind about schools like U. Penn, Chicago and NW is that their b-schools are world-class. Applying from the law schools for a Wharton MBA or a Kellogg MBA or a Booth MBA won't buy any "street credz" from the b-school's add comm, unlike how like how NYU allows 1L/2L students to apply to the JD/MBA without the GMAT.

Conversely, I'd venture a guess and say that for schools like Harvard, Yale, Cornell,etc. if one were to apply to the JD/MBA, adcomms at the b-schools would look at the law admission rather favorably.

In other words, a law school enrollment is somewhat of a "benefit" (but not a true "back door"), if seeking entry to a b-school's MBA program. Vice-versa, it's not the same, unless at schools like U. Penn, Chicago or NW.


Yale's SOM allows YLS students to get both a JD and an MBA in three years totally. A couple of my friends just applied and were accepted (they were 1Ls, no GMAT). So yes, if you want to get into SOM through the back door apply to YLS.

Kobe_Teeth
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Re: Backdoor(s) to law school admission. List 'em.

Postby Kobe_Teeth » Tue Mar 30, 2010 8:35 pm

Outing the admission's dean of a top law school as posting under a famous porn star's name and holding the info for blackmail?????????

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Right???????????????


Kidding!






...or am I? :?:




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