Disastrous Cycle...want some advice for next cycle.

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PlugInBaby
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Disastrous Cycle...want some advice for next cycle.

Postby PlugInBaby » Thu Mar 25, 2010 2:12 pm

Current stats and factors: 3.77/161, okay softs, misdemeanor assault and battery from 03

Schools that Went Complete in Mid-December
U of Washington: Pending
Seattle U: Waitlisted
Chicago-Kent: Accepted with 20k per year

Schools that went Complete in Mid-February
DePaul: "Priority Consideration" (We like you, but we're out of room for now)
Loyola CHI: Pending
St. Louis U: Rejected

I was first stunned by the Seattle U waitlisting, but with the positive feedback from Kent and to a lesser extent DePaul I thought that was an anomaly. Then I got the snail mail rejection from St. Louis U...not WUSTL...SLU. Comparing my numbers along with what SU and SLU usually get, I am a shoo-in. Right now I feel something must be really REALLY wrong with my application. Either that or the Jesuits think I am the antichrist.

Would it be advisable to send an email to admissions of SLU to find out why they decided to ding me? I have no intentions of applying their the next cycle, I just want to learn exactly what my mistakes were. I am also thinking of asking for the opinion of my LOR professors, asking if there were any possible "red flags" in their recommendations.

My PS had no intention of being polarizing although I could understand why it may have been. I thought it was quite well written and was really proud of it (I did not get it read by anyone else however until well after the fact.) Nor was my PS catered to any school in particular.

Could the misdemeanor conviction from seven years ago made that great of an impact to waitlist or ding someone who has superior stats to what they usually get?

I have some solutions in mind but I would like TLSers opinions in terms diagnosing what may have been wrong in my case or bringing up common issues among applicants who woefully underperform in their cycles. Thank you ahead of time.

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quickquestionthanks
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Re: Disastrous Cycle...want some advice for next cycle.

Postby quickquestionthanks » Thu Mar 25, 2010 2:18 pm

Pluginbaby, you know how I feel about die hard Muse fans...they're the best.

But if you start out the sentence "My PS had no intention of being polarizing..." then it was obviously very polarizing. Plus a conviction for assault? Damn you are badass. But polarizing.

You should have at least 5 people read your PS, throughout the writing process. Something that sounds really good/cool/catchy/edgy to you almost ALWAYS stupid and childish to others. I say this from a position of experience, having many people tell me how dumb some of the stuff I wrote was.

Be glad that Chicago-Kent is well respected beyond it's ranking and take their money. Unless you have something really fun to do for the next year, in that case, write a very politically correct essay and reapply. Your numbers are pretty good and should serve you better than that.

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bceagles182
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Re: Disastrous Cycle...want some advice for next cycle.

Postby bceagles182 » Thu Mar 25, 2010 2:23 pm

PlugInBaby wrote:Current stats and factors: 3.77/161, okay softs, misdemeanor assault and battery from 03

Schools that Went Complete in Mid-December
U of Washington: Pending
Seattle U: Waitlisted
Chicago-Kent: Accepted with 20k per year

Schools that went Complete in Mid-February
DePaul: "Priority Consideration" (We like you, but we're out of room for now)
Loyola CHI: Pending
St. Louis U: Rejected

I was first stunned by the Seattle U waitlisting, but with the positive feedback from Kent and to a lesser extent DePaul I thought that was an anomaly. Then I got the snail mail rejection from St. Louis U...not WUSTL...SLU. Comparing my numbers along with what SU and SLU usually get, I am a shoo-in. Right now I feel something must be really REALLY wrong with my application. Either that or the Jesuits think I am the antichrist.

Would it be advisable to send an email to admissions of SLU to find out why they decided to ding me? I have no intentions of applying their the next cycle, I just want to learn exactly what my mistakes were. I am also thinking of asking for the opinion of my LOR professors, asking if there were any possible "red flags" in their recommendations.

My PS had no intention of being polarizing although I could understand why it may have been. I thought it was quite well written and was really proud of it (I did not get it read by anyone else however until well after the fact.) Nor was my PS catered to any school in particular.

Could the misdemeanor conviction from seven years ago made that great of an impact to waitlist or ding someone who has superior stats to what they usually get?

I have some solutions in mind but I would like TLSers opinions in terms diagnosing what may have been wrong in my case or bringing up common issues among applicants who woefully underperform in their cycles. Thank you ahead of time.


With a misdemeanor charge, you really should try to be as conservative as possible in your personal statement to show people that you've matured. Also February is pretty late to apply. If you're going to do it next year, get all your apps in by December and have several people read your conservative PS. Also, make sure you assuage any concerns about the misdemeanor by talking about how you have learned from your experience in your addendum. Also, understand that you're going to have a more difficult time getting into religiously affiliated schools with a red flag on your record than other schools.

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as stars burn
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Re: Disastrous Cycle...want some advice for next cycle.

Postby as stars burn » Thu Mar 25, 2010 2:25 pm

quickquestionthanks wrote:Pluginbaby, you know how I feel about die hard Muse fans...they're the best.

But if you start out the sentence "My PS had no intention of being polarizing..." then it was obviously very polarizing. Plus a conviction for assault? Damn you are badass. But polarizing.

You should have at least 5 people read your PS, throughout the writing process. Something that sounds really good/cool/catchy/edgy to you almost ALWAYS stupid and childish to others. I say this from a position of experience, having many people tell me how dumb some of the stuff I wrote was.

Be glad that Chicago-Kent is well respected beyond it's ranking and take their money. Unless you have something really fun to do for the next year, in that case, write a very politically correct essay and reapply. Your numbers are pretty good and should serve you better than that.


+1 on Kent. I'll be there in the Fall with $15k/yr.

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T14_Scholly
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Re: Disastrous Cycle...want some advice for next cycle.

Postby T14_Scholly » Thu Mar 25, 2010 2:27 pm

The misdemeanor charge probably had no effect. Most people in life, most likely including admissions committee members, accept the fact that you can't really know yourself unless you've been in at least one fight.

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quickquestionthanks
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Re: Disastrous Cycle...want some advice for next cycle.

Postby quickquestionthanks » Thu Mar 25, 2010 2:28 pm

T14_Scholly wrote:The misdemeanor charge probably had no effect. Most people in life, most likely including admissions committee members, accept the fact that you can't really know yourself unless you've been in at least one fight.


Don't listen to this person. He is a figment of your imagination.

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vanwinkle
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Re: Disastrous Cycle...want some advice for next cycle.

Postby vanwinkle » Thu Mar 25, 2010 2:31 pm

T14_Scholly wrote:The misdemeanor charge probably had no effect. Most people in life, most likely including admissions committee members, accept the fact that you can't really know yourself unless you've been in at least one fight.

This holds true if OP is applying to the Tyler Durden School of Law.

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hannibalhamlin61
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Re: Disastrous Cycle...want some advice for next cycle.

Postby hannibalhamlin61 » Thu Mar 25, 2010 2:33 pm

Pluginbaby - I've stared at your yellow dot at Seattle U for many weeks now & never understood it, but I was missing the "misdemeanor assault and battery from 03" puzzle piece.

You still have UWashington though...

cartercl
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Re: Disastrous Cycle...want some advice for next cycle.

Postby cartercl » Thu Mar 25, 2010 2:44 pm

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Last edited by cartercl on Sat Mar 05, 2011 11:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

honestabe84
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Re: Disastrous Cycle...want some advice for next cycle.

Postby honestabe84 » Thu Mar 25, 2010 4:06 pm

The question is how serious the assault and battery is (i.e. Did you use a weapon and then got the charge reduced? How much injury did you cause?).

Unless your recs and/or PS were terrible, I have to assume that the circumstance surrounding the assault and battery were a deciding factor. This could not have been a minor incident. There is no reason that someone with your numbers should have gotten rejected at SLU and waitlisted at DePaul and Seattle. Even if the incident was serious, I'm still rather surprised by your cycle.

PM me if you don't want to post answers to these questions.

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PlugInBaby
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Re: Disastrous Cycle...want some advice for next cycle.

Postby PlugInBaby » Thu Mar 25, 2010 4:40 pm

honestabe84 wrote:The question is how serious the assault and battery is (i.e. Did you use a weapon and then got the charge reduced? How much injury did you cause?).

Unless your recs and/or PS were terrible, I have to assume that the circumstance surrounding the assault and battery were a deciding factor. This could not have been a minor incident. There is no reason that someone with your numbers should have gotten rejected at SLU and waitlisted at DePaul and Seattle. Even if the incident was serious, I'm still rather surprised by your cycle.

PM me if you don't want to post answers to these questions.


That's fine. Part of the acceptance process is being upfront with what you did wrong. Admittedly I was at a fragile part in my life, but that was more of a circumstance rather than an excuse. I made a major lapse of judgment. While taking an exercise walk a group of teenage girls humilatingly insulted me. I snapped and attempted to cut off the ringleader's hair. (I carry scissors for protection) A good samaritan stopped me and I backed off. No one got hurt. The charges were always misdemeanor: aggravated assault and four counts of battery. I have no recollection of even touching anyone else other than the ringleader, but I was so frightened of losing any freedom that I pled guilty to all charges in exchange for a conditional discharge.

I was in my late teens and the victims were in their early teens. Doesn't look good at all. However the entire matter was seven years ago. I have even worked with children professionally as a tutor with special education children in the inner city. The prospect of a "one strike and you're out" society is frightening. The reasons justifying such an approach work as a self-fulfilling prophecy. It is these prospects among many other factors which inspire me to practice law.

I will share my provisonal plan for next cycle a little later. Given this greater explication of my circumstances I would like to hear more input.

Thanks all again.

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extempore88
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Re: Disastrous Cycle...want some advice for next cycle.

Postby extempore88 » Thu Mar 25, 2010 4:48 pm

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Last edited by extempore88 on Tue Apr 14, 2015 11:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

honestabe84
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Re: Disastrous Cycle...want some advice for next cycle.

Postby honestabe84 » Thu Mar 25, 2010 4:49 pm

PlugInBaby wrote:
honestabe84 wrote:The question is how serious the assault and battery is (i.e. Did you use a weapon and then got the charge reduced? How much injury did you cause?).

Unless your recs and/or PS were terrible, I have to assume that the circumstance surrounding the assault and battery were a deciding factor. This could not have been a minor incident. There is no reason that someone with your numbers should have gotten rejected at SLU and waitlisted at DePaul and Seattle. Even if the incident was serious, I'm still rather surprised by your cycle.

PM me if you don't want to post answers to these questions.


That's fine. Part of the acceptance process is being upfront with what you did wrong. Admittedly I was at a fragile part in my life, but that was more of a circumstance rather than an excuse. I made a major lapse of judgment. While taking an exercise walk a group of teenage girls humilatingly insulted me. I snapped and attempted to cut off the ringleader's hair. (I carry scissors for protection) A good samaritan stopped me and I backed off. No one got hurt. The charges were always misdemeanor: aggravated assault and four counts of battery. I have no recollection of even touching anyone else other than the ringleader, but I was so frightened of losing any freedom that I pled guilty to all charges in exchange for a conditional discharge.

I was in my late teens and the victims were in their early teens. Doesn't look good at all. However the entire matter was seven years ago. I have even worked with children professionally as a tutor with special education children in the inner city. The prospect of a "one strike and you're out" society is frightening. The reasons justifying such an approach work as a self-fulfilling prophecy. It is these prospects among many other factors which inspire me to practice law.

I will share my provisonal plan for next cycle a little later. Given this greater explication of my circumstances I would like to hear more input.

Thanks all again.


Ok, I see how you could be charged with assault, but where does the battery charge come into play? I always thought that assault was an "offer" to do harm, while battery was the actual act.

I agree that it sucks that one incident could have such a profound impact on your cycle. Perhaps your addendum was weak?

Why do you carry scissors for protection? That's kind of and unusual weapon to carry for safety. Not trying to be an ass - just curious.
Last edited by honestabe84 on Thu Mar 25, 2010 4:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

honestabe84
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Re: Disastrous Cycle...want some advice for next cycle.

Postby honestabe84 » Thu Mar 25, 2010 4:51 pm

extempore88 wrote:You carry scissors for protection? :shock:

As T14_scholly said, I think these results can be explained by reasons other than your criminal history.


Maybe, but SLU is a Catholic school, so they might an applicants criminal record more seriously. This is just speculation, of course.

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bigchris1313
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Re: Disastrous Cycle...want some advice for next cycle.

Postby bigchris1313 » Thu Mar 25, 2010 6:45 pm

Ah. Now I get it. OP is a female! This would explain the scissors for protection, the other girls making fun of her, and the attempt to cut the hair in retaliation. I originally couldn't make sense of any of these elements, but now I understand.

Wow, my androcentrism is impressive.

agentcom
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Re: Disastrous Cycle...want some advice for next cycle.

Postby agentcom » Thu Mar 25, 2010 6:54 pm

PlugInBaby wrote:
Would it be advisable to send an email to admissions of SLU to find out why they decided to ding me? I have no intentions of applying their the next cycle, I just want to learn exactly what my mistakes were. I am also thinking of asking for the opinion of my LOR professors, asking if there were any possible "red flags" in their recommendations.



I second just about everything said thus far.

Yes call SLU or whoever, but wait until the late summer or so when they aren't bogged down in this years admissions process. If they're decent people they will tell you a little more about why they rejected you.

Also, I know it's awkward, but you should ask to read the LORs before they are sent out unless you really trust the writers (... and even then). DO NOT put that you reserve the right to see them later on your applications (I think that's on the form that you send in w/ the letters). But DO work on the LORs with your writers. Give them an idea of what the rest of your application is like (this requires writing your toned on PS first or at least getting a good start).

HTH

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Re: Disastrous Cycle...want some advice for next cycle.

Postby BigA » Thu Mar 25, 2010 7:01 pm

honestabe84 wrote:Maybe, but SLU is a Catholic school, so they might an applicants criminal record more seriously. This is just speculation, of course.


You guys think this is true of USD as well? That's a school I really want to apply to. Would they look much harder at a DUI and underage charge? :roll:
Last edited by BigA on Fri Mar 26, 2010 2:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

agentcom
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Re: Disastrous Cycle...want some advice for next cycle.

Postby agentcom » Thu Mar 25, 2010 7:03 pm

BigA wrote:
honestabe84 wrote:Maybe, but SLU is a Catholic school, so they might an applicants criminal record more seriously. This is just speculation, of course.


You guys think this is true of USD as well? That's a school I really want to apply to. Would they look much harder at a DUI and underage charge? :roll:[/quote]

In general religious UG campuses do not affect how the law schools are run--from admissions to academics.

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j.wellington
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Re: Disastrous Cycle...want some advice for next cycle.

Postby j.wellington » Thu Mar 25, 2010 8:27 pm

My PS had no intention of being polarizing although I could understand why it may have been. I thought it was quite well written and was really proud of it (I did not get it read by anyone else however until well after the fact.) Nor was my PS catered to any school in particular.


I think this is more likely an issue than your misdemeanor, which is really not that serious when put into full context and weighed against some of the other things these people see every day. What might have been polarizing about your personal statement?

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PlugInBaby
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Re: Disastrous Cycle...want some advice for next cycle.

Postby PlugInBaby » Thu Mar 25, 2010 8:31 pm

Might as well post the PS since it is after the fact. It is the same PS that I sent to all schools.

Edit: best to remove real names

Throughout my life experience, the capital Greek letter omega has become a very important symbol. In fact, I wear it near my heart in the form of a charm necklace. Borrowing from the biblical phrase “alpha to omega,” the omega signifies finality, a concept which frightens many but yet which I embrace. Everything is temporary; from material possession to our memories; our relationships and our lives. They are special because they are not eternal. My concept of finality also encompasses the indisputable fact that there is no scientific evidence of an afterlife, consequently the life we have right now may very well be our only one, so it is imperative to enjoy this life. It is a rather ironic that a symbol which represents to me a faithless philosophy would refer to the Bible, and some would argue that this philosophy would lead to a hedonistic anarchy. To the contrary, accountability would have the utmost importance as there is little margin for error when one is given a single chance. As I emerged at peace with myself after the normally tumultuous late teens and early 20s, the man who taught me accountability, my stepfather, was succumbing to an aggressive form of pulmonary fibrosis. The time to apply my life lessons arrived.
(stepfather), my mother's high school sweetheart, raised me as his own since the age of 8 when my mother reunited with him after a 27 year marriage to my biological father. (stepfather's) occupational background was sales, as reflected in his most effective tool for instilling work ethic and accountability, exaggeration. He would state with authority that the task at hand as something greater or tougher than it really was. I afforded him the intellectual capital I most likely will never apply to anyone else. (stepfather) was outspoken about where he thought my abilities lie. He believed I wouldn’t make a good lawyer since I was not an avid reader. He saw creativity as my strong suit and insisted I’d be more successful as a writer.
The fall of 2005 finds our lower-middle class family in a financial bind as Jim is no longer able to work. However, our resigned acceptance of the imminence of (stepfather)’s passing was the deeper burden. My overworked mother had a full-time receptionist position during the daytime and still insisted on doing all the housework. Although I was 22 and restless to get on with my life, I decided to forego my plan to re-enter college in order to continue my part-time job at night to help support the household. While one was at work, the other was on duty to help (stepfather) with any need that arises or reasonable request he may have. The latter was the most important duty, as this was our final chance to spend time with him and his final chance to feel anything at all. With our love and care we endeavored in not only subsiding the physical pain, but also the creation of more fond memories for us all. No matter how increasingly trying each physical or emotional circumstance became, my mother and I never lost sight of the reality that this is our last chance. On July 22, 2006, the day I was to leave town on my first vacation in a year, (stepfather) passed away at the age of 61. Shortly after (stepfather)’s body was taken from home, Mom drove me to the train station. We were in deep sadness, but had no regrets.
The finiteness of existence greatly magnifies how the field of law impacts how one pursues happiness as well as how long one is able to pursue happiness. Currently I have an interest in this nebulous concept of “defense lawyer” where I would stand up for those facing overzealous prosecution as well as those facing prosecution based on unconstitutional legislation. My mortal coil is far too short to “save the world.” My hopes are to have my impact reverberate until the omega of existence, as (stepfather)’s legacy reverberates through my actions; and perhaps with some creativity, simultaneously make him proud and prove him wrong through excelling as a lawyer.
Last edited by PlugInBaby on Thu Mar 25, 2010 8:57 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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BaiAilian2013
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Re: Disastrous Cycle...want some advice for next cycle.

Postby BaiAilian2013 » Thu Mar 25, 2010 8:38 pm

Personally, from the perspective of a complete stranger, your misdemeanor kind of terrifies me. I can see how it would look worse to an admissions officer than a bar fight or domestic dispute. That might just be me, of course. I don't think your PS is polarizing, though.

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j.wellington
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Re: Disastrous Cycle...want some advice for next cycle.

Postby j.wellington » Thu Mar 25, 2010 8:52 pm

I don't know if polarizing is the right word, but I think it's a bit expansive for a law school PS. Also, the last paragraph leaves doubt as to whether you know why you want to go to law school. Most people don't, and that's ok, but I don't think it helps to volunteer that in your PS. If you're reapplying, I'd say focus on one experience and say why it leads you to law school. If you catch yourself trying to sound philosophical or spiritual, step back. It's not the right venue.

The misdemeanor is not terrifying. I was a little concerned about something in my past, but after talking to some knowledgeable people and hearing about the shit that comes out in law school applications, I was quickly reassured.

Good luck with UW.

honestabe84
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Re: Disastrous Cycle...want some advice for next cycle.

Postby honestabe84 » Thu Mar 25, 2010 11:07 pm

PlugInBaby wrote:Might as well post the PS since it is after the fact. It is the same PS that I sent to all schools.

Edit: best to remove real names

Throughout my life experience, the capital Greek letter omega has become a very important symbol. In fact, I wear it near my heart in the form of a charm necklace. Borrowing from the biblical phrase “alpha to omega,” the omega signifies finality, a concept which frightens many but yet which I embrace. Everything is temporary; from material possession to our memories; our relationships and our lives. They are special because they are not eternal. My concept of finality also encompasses the indisputable fact that there is no scientific evidence of an afterlife, consequently the life we have right now may very well be our only one, so it is imperative to enjoy this life. It is a rather ironic that a symbol which represents to me a faithless philosophy would refer to the Bible, and some would argue that this philosophy would lead to a hedonistic anarchy. To the contrary, accountability would have the utmost importance as there is little margin for error when one is given a single chance. As I emerged at peace with myself after the normally tumultuous late teens and early 20s, the man who taught me accountability, my stepfather, was succumbing to an aggressive form of pulmonary fibrosis. The time to apply my life lessons arrived.
(stepfather), my mother's high school sweetheart, raised me as his own since the age of 8 when my mother reunited with him after a 27 year marriage to my biological father. (stepfather's) occupational background was sales, as reflected in his most effective tool for instilling work ethic and accountability, exaggeration. He would state with authority that the task at hand as something greater or tougher than it really was. I afforded him the intellectual capital I most likely will never apply to anyone else. (stepfather) was outspoken about where he thought my abilities lie. He believed I wouldn’t make a good lawyer since I was not an avid reader. He saw creativity as my strong suit and insisted I’d be more successful as a writer.
The fall of 2005 finds our lower-middle class family in a financial bind as Jim is no longer able to work. However, our resigned acceptance of the imminence of (stepfather)’s passing was the deeper burden. My overworked mother had a full-time receptionist position during the daytime and still insisted on doing all the housework. Although I was 22 and restless to get on with my life, I decided to forego my plan to re-enter college in order to continue my part-time job at night to help support the household. While one was at work, the other was on duty to help (stepfather) with any need that arises or reasonable request he may have. The latter was the most important duty, as this was our final chance to spend time with him and his final chance to feel anything at all. With our love and care we endeavored in not only subsiding the physical pain, but also the creation of more fond memories for us all. No matter how increasingly trying each physical or emotional circumstance became, my mother and I never lost sight of the reality that this is our last chance. On July 22, 2006, the day I was to leave town on my first vacation in a year, (stepfather) passed away at the age of 61. Shortly after (stepfather)’s body was taken from home, Mom drove me to the train station. We were in deep sadness, but had no regrets.
The finiteness of existence greatly magnifies how the field of law impacts how one pursues happiness as well as how long one is able to pursue happiness. Currently I have an interest in this nebulous concept of “defense lawyer” where I would stand up for those facing overzealous prosecution as well as those facing prosecution based on unconstitutional legislation. My mortal coil is far too short to “save the world.” My hopes are to have my impact reverberate until the omega of existence, as (stepfather)’s legacy reverberates through my actions; and perhaps with some creativity, simultaneously make him proud and prove him wrong through excelling as a lawyer.



This may be your problem right here. I just skimmed your PS, so maybe I'm missing something, but it sounds like you're saying that you're agnostic/atheist? Again, SLU is a catholic school, so this could rub potentially religious adcomms the wrong way - rightly or wrongly. From I've been told, you need to stay away from religion in your PS, unless you're endorsing the religion of the school you're applying to.

honestabe84
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Re: Disastrous Cycle...want some advice for next cycle.

Postby honestabe84 » Thu Mar 25, 2010 11:16 pm

bigchris1313 wrote:Ah. Now I get it. OP is a female! This would explain the scissors for protection, the other girls making fun of her, and the attempt to cut the hair in retaliation. I originally couldn't make sense of any of these elements, but now I understand.

Wow, my androcentrism is impressive.


If this is true, then the incident becomes much less serious IMO.

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extempore88
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Re: Disastrous Cycle...want some advice for next cycle.

Postby extempore88 » Thu Mar 25, 2010 11:31 pm

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Last edited by extempore88 on Tue Apr 14, 2015 11:21 am, edited 1 time in total.




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