NYLS, Hofstra, Loyola - LA, St. John's, Iowa, UW

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GeePee
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Re: NYLS, Hofstra, Loyola - LA, St. John's, Iowa, UW

Postby GeePee » Tue Mar 23, 2010 3:58 pm

Throwing away 150-200k on a legal education outside of top regional schools is a huge gamble in any economy. ITE, it's downright stupid. Sure, you could end up doing well and getting a lot out of your education, but your expected outcome is probably not very good (read: JDU). Going to Cardozo or BLS at full price without some very solid personal connections can cripple the rest of your life, and doesn't have very many roads to living comfortably. Your best bet would probably be to come to terms with going to Washington and living in Seattle for some non-negligible amount of time after LS. At least then you have a decent chance of placing into a solid "midlaw market" and living a reasonable life. Then, if you'd like to come back to NY to start a family, you'll probably have a few years of experience and some connections inside the market to help you along.

Honestly, there should probably only be 1-2 schools in the equation here.

Neelio
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Re: NYLS, Hofstra, Loyola - LA, St. John's, Iowa, UW

Postby Neelio » Tue Mar 23, 2010 4:01 pm

UW is by far the best of all those... but if you don't want to move to the PNW, then maybe not.

erniesto
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Re: NYLS, Hofstra, Loyola - LA, St. John's, Iowa, UW

Postby erniesto » Tue Mar 23, 2010 4:21 pm

Iowa would be good as well if you are ALREADY an Iowa resident, which it sounds like you are.

I'm under the assumption that you didn't you didn't apply to any schools in regions you would refuse to live in after graduation.

My list for you:

UW: $130,924
UIowa: $123,117
Hofstra: $99,591 (add 60k if you don't renew your scholarship - you should probably just drop out if this were the case)

Other schools are simply not even worth considering for you unless you like crushing non dischargable debt.

Also check out this thread's links for placement: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=108528

For a litmus test, use the NLJ250 placement Hofstra can be presumed at around 5%, Iowa and Washington at around 20%.

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Blindmelon
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Re: NYLS, Hofstra, Loyola - LA, St. John's, Iowa, UW

Postby Blindmelon » Tue Mar 23, 2010 4:31 pm

100k for Hofstra? :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:

No... no no no. Knock it off the list.

legalornot
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Re: NYLS, Hofstra, Loyola - LA, St. John's, Iowa, UW

Postby legalornot » Tue Mar 23, 2010 6:33 pm

I honestly don't think everything is based on USNEWS ranking. Plus I'm not trying to get a BIG Law or mid-law job after graduation. My goal is to become a sole practitioner or maybe working with another partner.

erniesto
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Re: NYLS, Hofstra, Loyola - LA, St. John's, Iowa, UW

Postby erniesto » Tue Mar 23, 2010 6:54 pm

legalornot wrote:I honestly don't think everything is based on USNEWS ranking. Plus I'm not trying to get a BIG Law or mid-law job after graduation. My goal is to become a sole practitioner or maybe working with another partner.


You need to develop a book of business and a reputation to be successful in solo practice. That takes years of firm work, whether in a large/mid/PI firm or government position unless you already have the contacts. Just take a quick glance in the yellow pages and you'll see it stuffed with solo practices to compete with. You need to look at your immediate exit options when thinking about law school.

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Grizz
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Re: NYLS, Hofstra, Loyola - LA, St. John's, Iowa, UW

Postby Grizz » Tue Mar 23, 2010 7:14 pm

legalornot wrote:I honestly don't think everything is based on USNEWS ranking. Plus I'm not trying to get a BIG Law or mid-law job after graduation. My goal is to become a sole practitioner or maybe working with another partner.


Sole practitioners who haven't already made a name for themselves (at a firm, PI, etc.) work for barely anything in NY especially, since the market is so saturated. Also, legalzoom.com is looking to snatch a large portion of even that business share, as it really isn't that hard to get certain legal documents taken care of. This is also not a very good route.

legalornot
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Re: NYLS, Hofstra, Loyola - LA, St. John's, Iowa, UW

Postby legalornot » Tue Mar 23, 2010 10:05 pm

roadkilllaw wrote:how did you manage UW??



Tell you the truth..I have no idea. Perhaps my ivy undergrad helped.

legalornot
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Re: NYLS, Hofstra, Loyola - LA, St. John's, Iowa, UW

Postby legalornot » Tue Mar 30, 2010 5:19 pm

tell me more ppl

Waitingontheworld
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Re: NYLS, Hofstra, Loyola - LA, St. John's, Iowa, UW

Postby Waitingontheworld » Wed Mar 31, 2010 12:28 am

rad law wrote:None of these schools are gonna do any great things for you given your career goals. .


Not true. I know a girl who went to New York Law School and got a position that many Harvard Law grads. were dying to get but got rejected.

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Grizz
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Re: NYLS, Hofstra, Loyola - LA, St. John's, Iowa, UW

Postby Grizz » Wed Mar 31, 2010 12:42 am

Waitingontheworld wrote:
rad law wrote:None of these schools are gonna do any great things for you given your career goals. .


Not true. I know a girl who went to New York Law School and got a position that many Harvard Law grads. were dying to get but got rejected.


So you know one girl, cool. But for the vast majority of grads, this is nowhere near a viable option. Still not a good reason to recommend NYLS, considering you have a better chance of working in document review hell for $40k a year and free pizza on Fridays. Don't go to somewhere where you wouldn't be happy at the median, and at the median you are pretty much guaranteed a mediocre job at best.

legalornot
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Re: NYLS, Hofstra, Loyola - LA, St. John's, Iowa, UW

Postby legalornot » Mon Apr 12, 2010 9:23 am

just days before sending in my first seat deposit...

Deciding betw. Loyola and Hofstra ($$$)..I've came to the conclusion that I will be fine working in either of the two markets (NY/LA). What do you guys think in terms of opps available in their respective markets? Loyola seems to be a strongly reputed school with a tradition of producing great attorneys and they have a very connected alumni network in SoCal. The problem is...I will be going there paying sticker, which is scary in this day and age. But at least it will give me a chance at getting a good legal education and potentially a job after graduation. Hofstra, on the other hand, has no respectable programs. From what I have heard, people who go to Hofstra generally do poorly at getting placed comparing to other NYC schools. I'm just not sure the $$$ is worth it.

Really appreciate some helpful insights. Any useful info could really help me out. Thanks in advance.

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MrSoOoFLy
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Re: NYLS, Hofstra, Loyola - LA, St. John's, Iowa, UW

Postby MrSoOoFLy » Mon Apr 12, 2010 9:45 am

legalornot wrote:just days before sending in my first seat deposit...

Deciding betw. Loyola and Hofstra ($$$)..I've came to the conclusion that I will be fine working in either of the two markets (NY/LA). What do you guys think in terms of opps available in their respective markets? Loyola seems to be a strongly reputed school with a tradition of producing great attorneys and they have a very connected alumni network in SoCal. The problem is...I will be going there paying sticker, which is scary in this day and age. But at least it will give me a chance at getting a good legal education and potentially a job after graduation. Hofstra, on the other hand, has no respectable programs. From what I have heard, people who go to Hofstra generally do poorly at getting placed comparing to other NYC schools. I'm just not sure the $$$ is worth it.

Really appreciate some helpful insights. Any useful info could really help me out. Thanks in advance.


I got into Hofstra with a 25,000 scholly and Maryland sticker. I withdrew my acceptance from Maryland this morning partly because of the $210,000 debt I'd incur and partly because Maryland doesn't place well in NYC.

Hofstra is on the lower end of the pecking order in NYC (NYU, Columbia, Cornell... Fordham Dozo BLS... SJU NYLS Hofstra Touro.. Pace CUNY Syracuse etc.) but they do place a limited number of grads in the vault top 50 firms...

If you're comfortable with that much debt from a >50 ranked school then go for it... if not, go to hofstra n just try to transfer up.

you can also try ask for some scholly from Loyola if you haven't already...

legalornot
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Re: NYLS, Hofstra, Loyola - LA, St. John's, Iowa, UW

Postby legalornot » Mon Apr 12, 2010 11:10 am

did you apply to SJU?

I'd be a bit more comfortable with the debt load if there is a decent possibility of landing an offer after grad. Seems like going to Loyola may give me a 50%+ chance at getting a decent job and living in sunny socal. With Hofstra, I just don't know regardless of the economic situation.

Do you know how Hofstra students have faired in previous transfer cycles? I've notice they lose about 40 a year...probably all top 10%.

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MrSoOoFLy
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Re: NYLS, Hofstra, Loyola - LA, St. John's, Iowa, UW

Postby MrSoOoFLy » Mon Apr 12, 2010 11:16 am

legalornot wrote:did you apply to SJU?

I'd be a bit more comfortable with the debt load if there is a decent possibility of landing an offer after grad. Seems like going to Loyola may give me a 50%+ chance at getting a decent job and living in sunny socal. With Hofstra, I just don't know regardless of the economic situation.

Do you know how Hofstra students have faired in previous transfer cycles? I've notice they lose about 40 a year...probably all top 10%.


I went to SJU for my undergrad... My app is still pending there as well as Fordham, Dozo, Cornell, ND, UNC, BC & BU...

& No my friends are 1Ls and they actually love the school. They all went in with the mind set of working hard and transferring out but pretty much all of them think Hofstra is a good fit for them and no longer want to transfer.

I live on Long Island and everyone raves about Hofstra... LoL NO idea why but all these lawyers do. If you're cool with the debt and want to practice in Cali go for Loyola. If you wanna take a chance for NYC Big Law go to Hofstra.

yeff
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Re: NYLS, Hofstra, Loyola - LA, St. John's, Iowa, UW

Postby yeff » Mon Apr 12, 2010 11:22 am

rad law wrote:
legalornot wrote:I honestly don't think everything is based on USNEWS ranking. Plus I'm not trying to get a BIG Law or mid-law job after graduation. My goal is to become a sole practitioner or maybe working with another partner.


Sole practitioners who haven't already made a name for themselves (at a firm, PI, etc.) work for barely anything in NY especially, since the market is so saturated. Also, legalzoom.com is looking to snatch a large portion of even that business share, as it really isn't that hard to get certain legal documents taken care of. This is also not a very good route.


+1

OP, planning to go solo straight out of law school is nuts. You need to learn to practice law first.

Go to UW. Seattle is wonderful, the law school building is great, and UW places soooooo much better in Seattle than any of these schools do in NY.

Of course, your dream is NY. But Seattle is great great great.

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jcl2
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Re: NYLS, Hofstra, Loyola - LA, St. John's, Iowa, UW

Postby jcl2 » Mon Apr 12, 2010 2:12 pm

legalornot wrote:just days before sending in my first seat deposit...

Deciding betw. Loyola and Hofstra ($$$)..I've came to the conclusion that I will be fine working in either of the two markets (NY/LA). What do you guys think in terms of opps available in their respective markets? Loyola seems to be a strongly reputed school with a tradition of producing great attorneys and they have a very connected alumni network in SoCal. The problem is...I will be going there paying sticker, which is scary in this day and age. But at least it will give me a chance at getting a good legal education and potentially a job after graduation. Hofstra, on the other hand, has no respectable programs. From what I have heard, people who go to Hofstra generally do poorly at getting placed comparing to other NYC schools. I'm just not sure the $$$ is worth it.

Really appreciate some helpful insights. Any useful info could really help me out. Thanks in advance.


Well if it is between those two, I would go with Hofstra because your debt will be lower. I still don't quite understand why you are turning down UW though, you said earlier that you liked Seattle, is living in New York or LA important enough to you to justify the considerably worse career prospects with about the same debt (or quite a bit more in the case of Loyola)?

legalornot
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Re: NYLS, Hofstra, Loyola - LA, St. John's, Iowa, UW

Postby legalornot » Mon Apr 12, 2010 8:40 pm

I am also retaking the LSAT in June. Hopefully I will do A LOT better and be able to qualify for T14 next cycle. If not, I'm going to have to settle for one of these lower ranked schools. That's life I guess.

I'm terrible at reading comp...can someone share their success stories with this section and provide tips to conquer this beast?




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