How are sections determined?

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corporatelaw87
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How are sections determined?

Postby corporatelaw87 » Sat Mar 13, 2010 10:48 pm

Besides the schools we know to section stack (Cardozo, Brooklyn). How do other schools make sections? Completely random or do they really try to have an even spread based on GPA and LSAT.

HyeMart
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Re: How are swctions determined?

Postby HyeMart » Sat Mar 13, 2010 10:49 pm

corporatelaw87 wrote:section stack (Cardozo, Brooklyn).


wot is this?

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im_blue
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Re: How are swctions determined?

Postby im_blue » Sat Mar 13, 2010 10:54 pm

HyeMart wrote:
corporatelaw87 wrote:section stack (Cardozo, Brooklyn).


wot is this?

Section stacking is putting all the scholarship recipients into the same section, which makes a percentage of them lose their scholarships automatically, e.g. say you have one section where 60% are getting scholarships, but they need top 1/3 to keep it.

engineer
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Re: How are sections determined?

Postby engineer » Sat Mar 13, 2010 10:56 pm

corporatelaw87 wrote:Besides the schools we know to section stack (Cardozo, Brooklyn). How do other schools make sections? Completely random or do they really try to have an even spread based on GPA and LSAT.


[citation needed]

corporatelaw87
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Re: How are sections determined?

Postby corporatelaw87 » Sat Mar 13, 2010 10:56 pm

engineer wrote:
corporatelaw87 wrote:Besides the schools we know to section stack (Cardozo, Brooklyn). How do other schools make sections? Completely random or do they really try to have an even spread based on GPA and LSAT.


[citation needed]


First person sources at both schools

270910
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Re: How are sections determined?

Postby 270910 » Sat Mar 13, 2010 10:57 pm

corporatelaw87 wrote:
engineer wrote:
corporatelaw87 wrote:Besides the schools we know to section stack (Cardozo, Brooklyn). How do other schools make sections? Completely random or do they really try to have an even spread based on GPA and LSAT.


[citation needed]


First person sources at both schools


They're still wrong. It's all hearsay. Schools don't section stack, they just give out a lot of scholarships. Hence most people think they're section is stacked, and the rumors fly.

corporatelaw87
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Re: How are sections determined?

Postby corporatelaw87 » Sat Mar 13, 2010 10:59 pm

disco_barred wrote:
corporatelaw87 wrote:
engineer wrote:
corporatelaw87 wrote:Besides the schools we know to section stack (Cardozo, Brooklyn). How do other schools make sections? Completely random or do they really try to have an even spread based on GPA and LSAT.


[citation needed]


First person sources at both schools


They're still wrong. It's all hearsay. Schools don't section stack, they just give out a lot of scholarships. Hence most people think they're section is stacked, and the rumors fly.


Look, I am not here to slander schools. Back to the question at hand, how are sections determined?

twopoodles
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Re: How are sections determined?

Postby twopoodles » Sat Mar 13, 2010 11:01 pm

I've asked this before, but are these schools calculating rank BY SECTION? I have not heard of any that calculate other than by class, in which case the problem is the curve of grading, but this would distort the entire class rank and it seems to me this would do more harm to the school than help save money.

I asked the school I'm attending flat out how many people lose their scholarships and she said they did not "give them to 1/2, expecting them to be in the top 1/3." The way she said it made me think that either other schools DO, or, this is just a really common (and annoying) myth.

270910
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Re: How are sections determined?

Postby 270910 » Sat Mar 13, 2010 11:04 pm

twopoodles wrote:I've asked this before, but are these schools calculating rank BY SECTION? I have not heard of any that calculate other than by class, in which case the problem is the curve of grading, but this would distort the entire class rank and it seems to me this would do more harm to the school than help save money.

I asked the school I'm attending flat out how many people lose their scholarships and she said they did not "give them to 1/2, expecting them to be in the top 1/3." The way she said it made me think that either other schools DO, or, this is just a really common (and annoying) myth.


Many schools that rank do so by section, because then it's all weighted against people who took (nearly) identical classes.

re: scholarship strings - even if a school gave scholarships to 1/4 asking them to maintain top 1/3, there would still be tons in every section, and tons who failed to get top third because of how difficult it is to predict success in law school based on pre-LS data.

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Cavalier
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Re: How are sections determined?

Postby Cavalier » Sat Mar 13, 2010 11:06 pm

I'm fairly certain that UVA finds pairs of people with similar backgrounds (alma mater, work experience, hometown, etc.) and puts them together. I don't think their section assignment has anything to do with people's GPA and LSAT though.

Renzo
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Re: How are sections determined?

Postby Renzo » Sat Mar 13, 2010 11:07 pm

twopoodles wrote:I've asked this before, but are these schools calculating rank BY SECTION? I have not heard of any that calculate other than by class, in which case the problem is the curve of grading, but this would distort the entire class rank and it seems to me this would do more harm to the school than help save money.

I'm not going to weigh in on whether or not section section stacking happens, but this question is confused. Each section faces it's own curve, so that (example) only 10% of each section can get an A, leading to 10% of the whole class getting A's.

twopoodles
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Re: How are sections determined?

Postby twopoodles » Sun Mar 14, 2010 12:46 am

Right...I guess that would matter if there are GPA requirements, but I was thinking along the lines of "top third" requirements.

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gymboree
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Re: How are sections determined?

Postby gymboree » Sun Mar 14, 2010 12:52 am

Hogwarts' sorting hat.

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im_blue
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Re: How are sections determined?

Postby im_blue » Sun Mar 14, 2010 12:52 am

twopoodles wrote:Right...I guess that would matter if there are GPA requirements, but I was thinking along the lines of "top third" requirements.

How do you think "top third" is determined? It's basically the highest 1/3 of GPAs in the section or class, which is heavily influenced by how well the rest of your section performs.

sibley
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Re: How are sections determined?

Postby sibley » Sun Mar 14, 2010 12:56 am

disco_barred wrote:
corporatelaw87 wrote:
engineer wrote:
corporatelaw87 wrote:Besides the schools we know to section stack (Cardozo, Brooklyn). How do other schools make sections? Completely random or do they really try to have an even spread based on GPA and LSAT.


[citation needed]


First person sources at both schools


They're still wrong. It's all hearsay. Schools don't section stack, they just give out a lot of scholarships. Hence most people think they're section is stacked, and the rumors fly.



I asked the dean at Cardozo about this and he gave me a very clear answer - they try to put equal numbers of scholarship recipients in each section. .:, no stacking.

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Philo38
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Re: How are sections determined?

Postby Philo38 » Sun Mar 14, 2010 12:56 am

Cavalier wrote:I'm fairly certain that UVA finds pairs of people with similar backgrounds (alma mater, work experience, hometown, etc.) and puts them together. I don't think their section assignment has anything to do with people's GPA and LSAT though.


Would you mind expanding on this a bit? Very curious indeed . . .

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Kohinoor
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Re: How are sections determined?

Postby Kohinoor » Sun Mar 14, 2010 12:58 am

Much of the calculus is unknown, but somehow we ended up with 2 black people in each section. The math must be extremely esoteric.

twopoodles
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Re: How are sections determined?

Postby twopoodles » Sun Mar 14, 2010 1:39 am

This debate has been done, over and over...but yes, I am aware that the top third is by GPA. But, the GPA is more complicated than just "all the top students get A's." It is done on a number system so that it is highly unlikely a third of students would have the highest GPA possible. Probably not even 10% would...I'm not sure how many graduate with "highest honors" but I don't imagine it is very many. If the class rank takes all sections into account, section stacking would serve only to make it easier for weaker students to compete with the best students, this would not serve the school. If it is somehow separate by section, that would be something else altogether but I don't think that is usually/ever the case.

blsingindisguise
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Re: How are sections determined?

Postby blsingindisguise » Sun Mar 14, 2010 1:45 am

There's no stacking. After my first year I talked to people from a number of different sections - each was convinced THEIRS was the stacked section. This is just a story people tell themselves because they can't quite get over the fact that for the first time in their life they couldn't get A's just by doing the work.

HyeMart
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Re: How are swctions determined?

Postby HyeMart » Sun Mar 14, 2010 3:18 am

im_blue wrote:
HyeMart wrote:
corporatelaw87 wrote:section stack (Cardozo, Brooklyn).


wot is this?

Section stacking is putting all the scholarship recipients into the same section, which makes a percentage of them lose their scholarships automatically, e.g. say you have one section where 60% are getting scholarships, but they need top 1/3 to keep it.


sounds dread, thanks for the info though

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Cavalier
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Re: How are sections determined?

Postby Cavalier » Sun Mar 14, 2010 10:34 am

Philo38 wrote:
Cavalier wrote:I'm fairly certain that UVA finds pairs of people with similar backgrounds (alma mater, work experience, hometown, etc.) and puts them together. I don't think their section assignment has anything to do with people's GPA and LSAT though.

Would you mind expanding on this a bit? Very curious indeed . . .

In my section there are 2 University of Tennessee alums, 2 University of Miami alums, 2 BYU alums, 3 people who went to college in the Pacific Northwest, 2 people from Nebraska, etc. I don't think it's a coincidence that certain people happen to be in the same sections.

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rayiner
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Re: How are sections determined?

Postby rayiner » Sun Mar 14, 2010 11:31 am

I don't know how NU assigns sections, but I'm in one with a bunch of other alchoholics. Seriously, bar night is like half our section (out of 4)...

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Philo38
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Re: How are sections determined?

Postby Philo38 » Sun Mar 14, 2010 8:46 pm

Cavalier wrote:
Philo38 wrote:
Cavalier wrote:I'm fairly certain that UVA finds pairs of people with similar backgrounds (alma mater, work experience, hometown, etc.) and puts them together. I don't think their section assignment has anything to do with people's GPA and LSAT though.

Would you mind expanding on this a bit? Very curious indeed . . .

In my section there are 2 University of Tennessee alums, 2 University of Miami alums, 2 BYU alums, 3 people who went to college in the Pacific Northwest, 2 people from Nebraska, etc. I don't think it's a coincidence that certain people happen to be in the same sections.


Wow. Interesting, I didn't expect that it would operate that way at all. I guess I jsut assumed it was totally random . . .

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BlueCivic
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Re: How are sections determined?

Postby BlueCivic » Sun Mar 14, 2010 8:47 pm

stratified random sampling, is what i've been told by school officials.

s419
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Re: How are sections determined?

Postby s419 » Sun Mar 14, 2010 9:51 pm

Cavalier wrote:
Philo38 wrote:
Cavalier wrote:I'm fairly certain that UVA finds pairs of people with similar backgrounds (alma mater, work experience, hometown, etc.) and puts them together. I don't think their section assignment has anything to do with people's GPA and LSAT though.

Would you mind expanding on this a bit? Very curious indeed . . .

In my section there are 2 University of Tennessee alums, 2 University of Miami alums, 2 BYU alums, 3 people who went to college in the Pacific Northwest, 2 people from Nebraska, etc. I don't think it's a coincidence that certain people happen to be in the same sections.



This is definitely true -- I was told this by a few people when I went to visit UVA.




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