Which law schools have the best LAY prestige?

(Applications Advice, Letters of Recommendation . . . )
notme
Posts: 51
Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2009 7:48 pm

Re: Which law schools have the best LAY prestige?

Postby notme » Wed Mar 24, 2010 3:01 pm

How can you say that Columbia, Cornell and Georgetown have national lay prestige when they are almost unknown on the West Coast. Columbia some people have heard of, but if they have heard of Cornell it is not considered prestigious, and most have only heard of it because of Andy. Ivy League is purely an East Coast thing. Georgetown no one has heard of. I'm not saying they aren't good schools, they just don't carry any weight here.

User avatar
ConMan345
Posts: 577
Joined: Tue Sep 29, 2009 1:08 pm

Re: Which law schools have the best LAY prestige?

Postby ConMan345 » Wed Mar 24, 2010 3:03 pm

notme wrote:How can you say that Columbia, Cornell and Georgetown have national lay prestige when they are almost unknown on the West Coast. Columbia some people have heard of, but if they have heard of Cornell it is not considered prestigious, and most have only heard of it because of Andy. Ivy League is purely an East Coast thing. Georgetown no one has heard of. I'm not saying they aren't good schools, they just don't carry any weight here.


This is false.

User avatar
Schrute Farms Beets
Posts: 18
Joined: Sun Mar 21, 2010 11:44 am

Re: Which law schools have the best LAY prestige?

Postby Schrute Farms Beets » Wed Mar 24, 2010 3:12 pm

notme wrote:How can you say that Columbia, Cornell and Georgetown have national lay prestige when they are almost unknown on the West Coast. Columbia some people have heard of, but if they have heard of Cornell it is not considered prestigious, and most have only heard of it because of Andy. Ivy League is purely an East Coast thing. Georgetown no one has heard of. I'm not saying they aren't good schools, they just don't carry any weight here.


Yes, because of Andy...

Image

09042014
Posts: 18282
Joined: Wed Oct 14, 2009 10:47 pm

Re: Which law schools have the best LAY prestige?

Postby 09042014 » Wed Mar 24, 2010 3:22 pm

I didn't know UVA, NYU, or WUSTL existed a year and a half ago.

I considered Duke and Vandy to be private schools that were known only for sports.

I didn't now Penn, or Columbia was ivy league, but I assumed Columbia was a great school anyway.

User avatar
evilgenius
Posts: 179
Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2010 12:18 pm

Re: Which law schools have the best LAY prestige?

Postby evilgenius » Wed Mar 24, 2010 3:41 pm

Here in NYC its: Harvard, Yale, Stanford, Columbia, NYU, Cornell, Fordham (i swore it was ivy league until 12th grade), Berkeley, Georgetown, Princeton (people believe it has a law school)

Others with name recognition are:
Rutgers, Seton Hall (has some name recognition due to sports team), & St. Johns

Unfortunately, Brooklyn Law School probably has the rep of TTT despite its ranking. And no one (i repeat no one) has ever heard of Cardozo or Yeshiva University though its undergrad, law school, and med schools all have T1 rankings.

Rawlsian
Posts: 387
Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2009 3:53 pm

Re: Which law schools have the best LAY prestige?

Postby Rawlsian » Wed Mar 24, 2010 3:59 pm

hiromoto45 wrote:
dp73816 wrote:Notre Dame is amazingly respected by everyone I've ever met...they put it on par/above Duke and way past schools like Cornell. Ditto with the name "Rutgers" - people think its a private school.

The only schools that I see as universally respected are Harvard & Yale, at least on the East Coast. Georgetown (probably due in part to Meadow on the Sopranos) is right behind them, above schools like Stanford and UVA. Boston College is another school that has huge name rep. Most people do not know BU even exists.

...but you have to realize I go to school in the boonies...the only thing people know about the law around here are their Miranda's...so take it for what its worth.


Meadow went to Columbia in the Sopranos.


There was an episode where her mother extorted a Georgetown alum for a recommendation for her daughter.

User avatar
stratocophic
Posts: 2207
Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2009 6:24 pm

Re: Which law schools have the best LAY prestige?

Postby stratocophic » Wed Mar 24, 2010 4:05 pm

Desert Fox wrote:I didn't know UVA, NYU, or WUSTL existed a year and a half ago.

I considered Duke and Vandy to be private schools that were known only for sports.

I didn't now Penn, or Columbia was ivy league, but I assumed Columbia was a great school anyway.

I thought UVA was a crappy state school, NYU was the equivalent of CUNY, and WUSTL sent me so much stuff during undergrad that I thought it was a joke. Guess I never got to the sections with their average ACT/SAT and GPA :? I also didn't know Cal was the same thing as Berkeley, and I had a vague idea Columbia was a pretty good school but didn't know it was an Ivy. Also though UChicago was Chicago's version of the SUNY/CUNY schools.

That said, average people don't know dick about law school, and neither did I five months ago. TLS is right about lay prestige being meaningless.

User avatar
dp73816
Posts: 253
Joined: Tue Jun 09, 2009 7:54 pm

Re: Which law schools have the best LAY prestige?

Postby dp73816 » Wed Mar 24, 2010 5:19 pm

Rawlsian wrote:
hiromoto45 wrote:
dp73816 wrote:Notre Dame is amazingly respected by everyone I've ever met...they put it on par/above Duke and way past schools like Cornell. Ditto with the name "Rutgers" - people think its a private school.

The only schools that I see as universally respected are Harvard & Yale, at least on the East Coast. Georgetown (probably due in part to Meadow on the Sopranos) is right behind them, above schools like Stanford and UVA. Boston College is another school that has huge name rep. Most people do not know BU even exists.

...but you have to realize I go to school in the boonies...the only thing people know about the law around here are their Miranda's...so take it for what its worth.


Meadow went to Columbia in the Sopranos.


There was an episode where her mother extorted a Georgetown alum for a recommendation for her daughter.



ding ding!...I guess I still love the Sopranos too much

CanadianWolf
Posts: 10439
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 4:54 pm

Re: Which law schools have the best LAY prestige?

Postby CanadianWolf » Wed Mar 24, 2010 5:33 pm

Although I have not read all the posts on this thread, I do believe that lay prestige has some importance in the real world; for example, one running for office--judicial or legislative--can affect voters perceptions & actions by prestige of school attended.
Lay prestige:
1) Harvard
2) Yale
3) Notre Dame- nationally recognized by laypersons.
4) Local state university law school.
5) Regionally recognized private law schools such as Northwestern, Stanford, Columbia, Emory & Duke.

CanadianWolf
Posts: 10439
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 4:54 pm

Re: Which law schools have the best LAY prestige?

Postby CanadianWolf » Wed Mar 24, 2010 5:43 pm

The most relevant "prestige", however, is reflected in actual employment data. The National Law Journal recently released (February, 2010) its survey of hires by the nation's largest 250 law firms:
1) Northwestern University School of Law
2) Columbia Law School
3) Stanford Law School
4) Univ. of Chicago Law School
5) Univ. of Virginia Law School
6) Univ. of Michigan Law School
7) Univ. of Pennsylvania Law School
8) NYU School of Law
9) UCal-Berkeley School of Law
10) Duke Law School

Note: Yale Law School had a significant number of its graduates accept judicial clerkships over large law firm employment thus greatly lowering its percentage of law grads accepting positions at the largest 250 law firms.

RealTalk
Posts: 56
Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2009 8:55 pm

Re: Which law schools have the best LAY prestige?

Postby RealTalk » Wed Mar 24, 2010 5:48 pm

Harvard and Yale are in a class of their own.

But after that Stanford, Duke, and Columbia I would say got the most lay prestige. At least thats what I thought before applying to law schools.

I didn't even know NYU existed, thought UchicagoPenn were state schools, and UVA/Michigan irrelevant since they were state schools.

I think people associate prestige with known Ivy's like Harvard, Yale, and to a lesser extent Columbia. After that big time private schools like Stanford (Harvard of the west) and Duke (Harvard of the south) which basically are the best schools outside of the east coast.

After that its a crapshoot.

User avatar
los blancos
Posts: 7124
Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2008 4:18 pm

Re: Which law schools have the best LAY prestige?

Postby los blancos » Wed Mar 24, 2010 5:52 pm

CanadianWolf wrote:The most relevant "prestige", however, is reflected in actual employment data. The National Law Journal recently released (February, 2010) its survey of hires by the nation's largest 250 law firms:
1) Northwestern University School of Law
2) Columbia Law School
3) Stanford Law School
4) Univ. of Chicago Law School
5) Univ. of Virginia Law School
6) Univ. of Michigan Law School
7) Univ. of Pennsylvania Law School
8) NYU School of Law
9) UCal-Berkeley School of Law
10) Duke Law School

Note: Yale Law School had a significant number of its graduates accept judicial clerkships over large law firm employment thus greatly lowering its percentage of law grads accepting positions at the largest 250 law firms.



N00b fail

CMDantes
Posts: 420
Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2010 2:37 pm

Re: Which law schools have the best LAY prestige?

Postby CMDantes » Wed Mar 24, 2010 6:40 pm

In the southwest, UT Law has pretty serious prestige.

User avatar
js87
Posts: 434
Joined: Tue Jul 01, 2008 11:42 pm

Re: Which law schools have the best LAY prestige?

Postby js87 » Wed Mar 24, 2010 7:17 pm

A lot of people deride lay prestige as being irrelevant or nothing more than an ego boost, but I think lay prestige is definitely valuable. If you're going for a career in biglaw then, by all means, it's pretty inconsequential. In that case, the USNWR rankings and your class rank are the important factors.

If you want to work for a smaller firm then it IS important. Do you honestly think that most partners at small firms read the USNWR like a bible? They don't know who ranked #6 this year. They know which schools they perceive to be "good". Many of those "good" schools, of course, are T-14 or well ranked, but there is definitely regional variation.

Furthermore, if you want to work as a solo or start a firm then lay prestige can be beneficial. Joe Schmo might be perusing your website when looking for a local attorney for X matter and be impressed with your credentials.

It's also important in politics, if that's your ambition.

User avatar
bees
Posts: 310
Joined: Tue Oct 20, 2009 11:50 pm

Re: Which law schools have the best LAY prestige?

Postby bees » Wed Mar 24, 2010 8:56 pm

js87 wrote:If you want to work for a smaller firm then it IS important. Do you honestly think that most partners at small firms read the USNWR like a bible? They don't know who ranked #6 this year. They know which schools they perceive to be "good". Many of those "good" schools, of course, are T-14 or well ranked, but there is definitely regional variation.


This isn't lay prestige.

User avatar
crackberry
Posts: 3252
Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2009 3:23 pm

Re: What about a degree that will "get me laid" prestige?

Postby crackberry » Thu Mar 25, 2010 3:48 am

amputatedbrain wrote:Anyway, as long as I'm here. Out of the T14, HY Columbia, Cornell and Gtown are the ones with national lay prestige. Berkeley/UCLA for West coast. The rest sound like TTT state schools, or schools for rich frat d-bags whose parents want them to go to Duke.

Wow, this is the most outrageous anti-Stanford trolling I've ever seen.

Also, those who claim Notre Dame has more lay prestige than anywhere but HY are out of their damn mind.

Finally, Mods, please lock this thread. Please...

User avatar
Lawl Shcool
Posts: 763
Joined: Tue Oct 27, 2009 6:44 pm

Re: Which law schools have the best LAY prestige?

Postby Lawl Shcool » Thu Mar 25, 2010 4:11 am

growing up in the midwest:

Ivy League (people saying that people don't know what schools are Ivy are being naive)
ND
Georgetown
U Chicago
Michigan

Not really sure how to rank the Cali schools. People are aware that UCLA/Berkeley/Stanford are phenomenal but not many students leave for the west coast and come back, so they don't get a lot of "press" so to speak.

User avatar
crackberry
Posts: 3252
Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2009 3:23 pm

Re: Which law schools have the best LAY prestige?

Postby crackberry » Thu Mar 25, 2010 4:16 am

JPU wrote:growing up in the midwest:

Ivy League (people saying that people don't know what schools are Ivy are being naive)
ND
Georgetown
U Chicago
Michigan

Not really sure how to rank the Cali schools. People are aware that UCLA/Berkeley/Stanford are phenomenal but not many students leave for the west coast and come back, so they don't get a lot of "press" so to speak.

Dartmouth/Brown>ND among Midwest lay people? Really? And Penn, for that matter?

User avatar
BioEBear2010
Posts: 745
Joined: Wed Nov 19, 2008 7:05 pm

Re: Which law schools have the best LAY prestige?

Postby BioEBear2010 » Thu Mar 25, 2010 4:20 am

crackberry wrote:
JPU wrote:growing up in the midwest:

Ivy League (people saying that people don't know what schools are Ivy are being naive)
ND
Georgetown
U Chicago
Michigan

Not really sure how to rank the Cali schools. People are aware that UCLA/Berkeley/Stanford are phenomenal but not many students leave for the west coast and come back, so they don't get a lot of "press" so to speak.

Dartmouth/Brown>ND among Midwest lay people? Really? And Penn, for that matter?

There's no way Dartmouth/Brown > ND, especially in the midwest...

Everyone knows Joe Paterno, though.

User avatar
crackberry
Posts: 3252
Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2009 3:23 pm

Re: Which law schools have the best LAY prestige?

Postby crackberry » Thu Mar 25, 2010 4:23 am

BioEBear2010 wrote:
crackberry wrote:Dartmouth/Brown>ND among Midwest lay people? Really? And Penn, for that matter?

There's no way Dartmouth/Brown > ND, especially in the midwest...

Everyone knows Joe Paterno, though.

Oh true, I forgot JoePa coached Penn. You're right.

User avatar
PDaddy
Posts: 2073
Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2010 4:40 am

Re: Which law schools have the best LAY prestige?

Postby PDaddy » Thu Mar 25, 2010 5:12 am

newyorker88 wrote:for a T3 Tulane has some pretty good lay prestige


I agree. No...in all seriousness, Tulane's prestige stretches much further than its ranking would suggest. The name speaks loud even on the street. Duke and Penn have monstrous lay prestige. How can anyone cross those out? And why cross out N.D.? :?

I'll concede, flamin' on W & M and Wake.

aa12x
Posts: 1
Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2010 4:45 am

Re: Which law schools have the best LAY prestige?

Postby aa12x » Thu Mar 25, 2010 5:23 am

The subject of your curiosity is irritating.
A good dose of Feynman is in order.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f61KMw5z ... re=related

User avatar
PDaddy
Posts: 2073
Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2010 4:40 am

Re: Which law schools have the best LAY prestige?

Postby PDaddy » Thu Mar 25, 2010 5:29 am

RealTalk wrote:Harvard and Yale are in a class of their own.

But after that Stanford, Duke, and Columbia I would say got the most lay prestige. At least thats what I thought before applying to law schools.

I didn't even know NYU existed, thought UchicagoPenn were state schools, and UVA/Michigan irrelevant since they were state schools.

I think people associate prestige with known Ivy's like Harvard, Yale, and to a lesser extent Columbia. After that big time private schools like Stanford (Harvard of the west) and Duke (Harvard of the south) which basically are the best schools outside of the east coast.

After that its a crapshoot.


You should do some traveling. "Lay" prestige is all about what the "layman" on the street thinks when he/she hears the name...without regard to special knowledge about programs, faculty, etc.

Hence, lay prestige is mostly a regional dynamic, outside of the Ivies and a few other schools. We all know and pretty much agree on what the top "national" names are.

So, for argument's sake, the real question is, "In each respective region, which school gets people the most excited, relative to other schools in their regions?" From that perspective, can any school match UCLA or USC? Berkeley and Stanford are obviously prestigious, but Californians and west coasters in general are fanatics about UCLA and USC too.

User avatar
Sogui
Posts: 621
Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2009 12:32 am

Re: Which law schools have the best LAY prestige?

Postby Sogui » Thu Mar 25, 2010 9:32 am

Desert Fox wrote:I didn't know UVA, NYU, or WUSTL existed a year and a half ago.

I considered Duke and Vandy to be private schools that were known only for sports.

I didn't now Penn, or Columbia was ivy league, but I assumed Columbia was a great school anyway.


I want to find whatever rock you were living under.

User avatar
Sogui
Posts: 621
Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2009 12:32 am

Re: Which law schools have the best LAY prestige?

Postby Sogui » Thu Mar 25, 2010 9:34 am

CMDantes wrote:In the southwest, UT Law has pretty serious prestige.


I'll second that

At least in Texas, "WOW YOU GOT INTO UT LAW I HEARD THAT'S REALLY HARD YOU MUST BE REALLY SMART"




Return to “Law School Admissions Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: euler, YoungSimba and 3 guests