Kent at sticker vs. TTTT with full scholarship

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as stars burn
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Kent at sticker vs. TTTT with full scholarship

Postby as stars burn » Mon Mar 08, 2010 2:18 am

This may seem like a no brainer on here, but I thought I'd toss this out there because I'm having a serious problem deciding. My seat deposits are due is about 3-4 weeks, and I'm on pins and needles waiting for my last few schools.

I applied to 22 schools. Now that I look back on it, it's a little excessive and I wish I had only applied to about half that. I applied to many more "safeties" than I needed too. But anyway, I've heard back from all but 8 schools as of now. I don't care about 3 of those schools.

I'm currently on the waitlists at 5 schools: rutgers (held), loyola-chicago, illinois, american, and fsu (held)

I'm waiting to hear from: uf, george washington (this was a shot in the dark for me), university of north carolina, university of florida, indiana and northeastern

I've been accepted to chicago-kent, stetson, hofstra, university of the pacific and valparaiso.

Chicago-Kent has been by far the best school that has given me the green light. However, I'm unsure I will get any money. I was offered a full scholarship for all 3 years as long as I keep a 3.0 at Valparaiso. Would you pay sticker at Chicago-Kent over a full-scholarship to Valparaiso? It would be truly awesome to graduate with hardly any debt but I'm not sure I can handle that small town of valparaiso, and I highly doubt my fiance will be able to find a job in the area.

Pros of Chicago-Kent: my fiance is an actuary and shouldn't have too much of a problem finding a job in chicago, I absolutely love chicago, chicago-kent is a much stronger school of the two, I have a few friends that live in chicago so it won't seem entirely new to me

thanks guys!

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JCougar
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Re: Kent at sticker vs. TTTT with full scholarship

Postby JCougar » Mon Mar 08, 2010 2:37 am

I'd take the full ride. But there's no need to be impatient. See if you get off some of those waitlists. When do you have to give Valpo your decision?

The difference between getting biglaw from Kent versus Valpo is the difference between slim and virtually nil. And if you don't want to do biglaw, I can't think of any other reason why a higher ranked school would be worth paying so much more. Chicago's a hop, skip, and a jump away from Valpo, and Valpo will be considerably cheaper living. Can't you find a place halfway in between and both you and your hubby commute?

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SOCRATiC
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Re: Kent at sticker vs. TTTT with full scholarship

Postby SOCRATiC » Mon Mar 08, 2010 2:40 am

TTTT full ride all the way sir.

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newyorker88
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Re: Kent at sticker vs. TTTT with full scholarship

Postby newyorker88 » Mon Mar 08, 2010 2:43 am

Kent is not worth sticker. I would go with the full ride from the TTTT

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Re: Kent at sticker vs. TTTT with full scholarship

Postby PDaddy » Mon Mar 08, 2010 2:44 am

If you pass on Kent, you're making a mistake. The scholly at Valpo is sexy, but Kent is one of those so-called 2T law schools that belies its ranking. Your job prospects will be so much better. If it were Kent vs. Pacific ($$$), I'd say go for the money. But these two schools are so far apart in prestige and job prospects.

Kent is a much better school than people think. And it has surprisingly managed to place a few people in markets outside of Chicago. If you don't go to Kent, go to Pacific or Hofstra. You should always check out the curves at schools that offer scholarships. If the requirement is 3.0 and the school has a 2.8 curve, you're in trouble; it's a sucker's bet. The GPA minimum should always be below the curve, so that the highest you have to place is 50th percentile/median.

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as stars burn
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Re: Kent at sticker vs. TTTT with full scholarship

Postby as stars burn » Mon Mar 08, 2010 2:49 am

JCougar wrote:I'd take the full ride. But there's no need to be impatient. See if you get off some of those waitlists. When do you have to give Valpo your decision?

The difference between getting biglaw from Kent versus Valpo is the difference between slim and virtually nil. And if you don't want to do biglaw, I can't think of any other reason why a higher ranked school would be worth paying so much more. Chicago's a hop, skip, and a jump away from Valpo, and Valpo will be considerably cheaper living. Can't you find a place halfway in between and both you and your hubby commute?


Wow, I'm truly floored that you voted Valpo! Valpo was my number 1 until kent accepted me. Well, my hubby-to-be isn't that thrilled about Valparaiso, Indiana so he's actually rooting for chicago-kent right now. The halfway point for valpo and chicago that would be a feasible commute is gary, chicago and we heard that is quite possibly one of the worst areas ever (maybe not the whole area, but I don't know) I haven't received an official letter yet from Chicago-Kent so I'm not sure about money quite yet...but I have a feeling it will be nothing or nominal. Valpo needs their first seat deposit by April 1st. I'm not ready to make the decision yet.

I don't care about biglaw so you're right in that sense...I guess I have a lot of thinking to do.
Last edited by as stars burn on Mon Mar 08, 2010 12:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Kent at sticker vs. TTTT with full scholarship

Postby hiromoto45 » Mon Mar 08, 2010 2:51 am

neither...ride the waitlist

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Re: Kent at sticker vs. TTTT with full scholarship

Postby JCougar » Mon Mar 08, 2010 2:53 am

PDaddy wrote:If you pass on Kent, you're making a mistake. The scholly at Valpo is sexy, but Kent is one of those so-called 2T law schools that belies its ranking. Your job prospects will be so much better. If it were Kent vs. Pacific ($$$), I'd say go for the money. But these two schools are so far apart in prestige and job prospects.

Kent is a much better school than people think. And it has surprisingly managed to place a few people in markets outside of Chicago. If you don't go to Kent, go to Pacific or Hofstra. You should always check out the curves at schools that offer scholarships. If the requirement is 3.0 and the school has a 2.8 curve, you're in trouble; it's a sucker's bet. The GPA minimum should always be below the curve, so that the highest you have to place is 50th percentile/median.


I agree that Kent is underrated, and Kent probably deserves to be ranked in the mid-50s (based on their medians and job outlook), but that still doesn't make up for the difference between free and sticker.

But I agree with your advice on checking out the curve first. 3.0 doesn't sound too terrible, but you never know with TTTT schools.

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Re: Kent at sticker vs. TTTT with full scholarship

Postby JCougar » Mon Mar 08, 2010 2:59 am

as stars burn wrote:Wow, I'm truly floored that you voted Valpo! Valpo was my number 1 until kent accepted me. Well, my hubby-to-be isn't that thrilled about Valparaiso, Indiana so he's actually rooting for chicago-kent right now. The halfway point for valpo and chicago that would be a feasible commute is gary, chicago and that is quite possibly one of the worst areas I've ever seen (maybe I didn't see the whole area, but I didn't like what I saw) I haven't received an official letter yet from Chicago-Kent so I'm not sure about money quite yet...but I have a feeling it will be nothing or nominal. Valpo needs their first seat deposit by April 1st. I'm not ready to make the decision yet.

I don't care about biglaw so you're right in that sense...I guess I have a lot of thinking to do.


I say that having went to IIT for grad school already, so I'm already predisposed to be biased towards Kent.

Gary is pretty bad all around, and the southern suburbs aren't great, either. But you could probably find some nice area in between.

Nevertheless, you have a couple more weeks to see how things shake out. I applied to Kent, as well, and they seem to be behind. Are you sure you're not getting any scholarship from them? One might still be coming. If your stats were good enough to make the waitlist at Illinois, I'd be surprised if Kent didn't eventually offer you anything.

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as stars burn
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Re: Kent at sticker vs. TTTT with full scholarship

Postby as stars burn » Mon Mar 08, 2010 3:18 am

JCougar wrote:
as stars burn wrote:Wow, I'm truly floored that you voted Valpo! Valpo was my number 1 until kent accepted me. Well, my hubby-to-be isn't that thrilled about Valparaiso, Indiana so he's actually rooting for chicago-kent right now. The halfway point for valpo and chicago that would be a feasible commute is gary, chicago and that is quite possibly one of the worst areas I've ever seen (maybe I didn't see the whole area, but I didn't like what I saw) I haven't received an official letter yet from Chicago-Kent so I'm not sure about money quite yet...but I have a feeling it will be nothing or nominal. Valpo needs their first seat deposit by April 1st. I'm not ready to make the decision yet.

I don't care about biglaw so you're right in that sense...I guess I have a lot of thinking to do.


I say that having went to IIT for grad school already, so I'm already predisposed to be biased towards Kent.

Gary is pretty bad all around, and the southern suburbs aren't great, either. But you could probably find some nice area in between.

Nevertheless, you have a couple more weeks to see how things shake out. I applied to Kent, as well, and they seem to be behind. Are you sure you're not getting any scholarship from them? One might still be coming. If your stats were good enough to make the waitlist at Illinois, I'd be surprised if Kent didn't eventually offer you anything.


You're right. I'll mull it over for another week or so, but I'm still heavily leaning toward Kent. I've read tons and tons of stuff and Kent is a MUCH better school. I think you'd be surprised if I told you my stats, but here it goes: 150/3.76 URM. I'm an extreme splitter and these cycles can hardly ever be predicted. I got money from hofstra, pacific and valpo ($10,000/yr., $10,000/yr. and full scholarship respectively). I'm really surprised at how well my cycle has gone so far, but I spent 2.5 years thinking about law school and perfecting my applications. I took the LSAT three times. I have 8 years of work experience (I've worked since I was 16) in management positions, 3 years of internships with newspapers, numerous publications and I'm sure it didn't hurt that I'm half puerto-rican. Plus, I was able to deliver a strong addendum on my lower LSAT score by sending my SAT and ACT scores and their correlation with my high GPA. I must have said something right somewhere because I almost fell off my seat when I got waitlisted at Illinois and accepted to Chicago-Kent. I like to think I'm a strong writer so maybe my personal statement struck a cord?

Well, I hope you get into Chicago-Kent with money so you can move back! Maybe we'll be classmates haha.

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los blancos
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Re: Kent at sticker vs. TTTT with full scholarship

Postby los blancos » Mon Mar 08, 2010 3:33 am

every time i see a thread like this where an otherwise excellent candidate is held back by the stupid LSAT i die a little more inside.

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Re: Kent at sticker vs. TTTT with full scholarship

Postby PDaddy » Mon Mar 08, 2010 4:07 am

JCougar wrote:
PDaddy wrote:If you pass on Kent, you're making a mistake. The scholly at Valpo is sexy, but Kent is one of those so-called 2T law schools that belies its ranking. Your job prospects will be so much better. If it were Kent vs. Pacific ($$$), I'd say go for the money. But these two schools are so far apart in prestige and job prospects.

Kent is a much better school than people think. And it has surprisingly managed to place a few people in markets outside of Chicago. If you don't go to Kent, go to Pacific or Hofstra. You should always check out the curves at schools that offer scholarships. If the requirement is 3.0 and the school has a 2.8 curve, you're in trouble; it's a sucker's bet. The GPA minimum should always be below the curve, so that the highest you have to place is 50th percentile/median.


I agree that Kent is underrated, and Kent probably deserves to be ranked in the mid-50s (based on their medians and job outlook), but that still doesn't make up for the difference between free and sticker.

But I agree with your advice on checking out the curve first. 3.0 doesn't sound too terrible, but you never know with TTTT schools.


+1 I know a guy who took a full ride at UC Hastings over a sticker at WUSTL a few years ago (before they changed that nasty curve they had). He didn't want to go biglaw, he wanted to be a prosecutor. When he got there, he ran into a bunch of Stanford, Berkeley and UCLA rejects who were trying to slit each other's throats. He hated it. He wound up losing his scholarship after 1L because he landed in the 70% or something like it. I'm not going to be that guy. OP should be able to leverage Valpo for some money. If she can even get $20K at Kent, she wins. And people shouldn't assume that schools won't bargain against a much lower ranked school. If they think they could lose you, they will deal.

You have to check the grade trends at schools. If the curve is 2.8 or so, OP should negotiate the scholly minimum down to 2.75 or 2.5 before accepting it. Like I said, you should never accept a scholly that requires you to be anything better than 50%, and at some schools, you should not have to be above 60%.

As for OP's stats, there are URM splitters with similar numbers getting into lower T14 (i.e., Duke, Cornell, GULC). Kent should pay OP.

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Re: Kent at sticker vs. TTTT with full scholarship

Postby PDaddy » Mon Mar 08, 2010 4:17 am

los blancos wrote:every time i see a thread like this where an otherwise excellent candidate is held back by the stupid LSAT i die a little more inside.


Others agree; the test needs improvement.

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=109559

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as stars burn
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Re: Kent at sticker vs. TTTT with full scholarship

Postby as stars burn » Mon Mar 08, 2010 12:36 pm

PDaddy wrote:
JCougar wrote:
PDaddy wrote:If you pass on Kent, you're making a mistake. The scholly at Valpo is sexy, but Kent is one of those so-called 2T law schools that belies its ranking. Your job prospects will be so much better. If it were Kent vs. Pacific ($$$), I'd say go for the money. But these two schools are so far apart in prestige and job prospects.

Kent is a much better school than people think. And it has surprisingly managed to place a few people in markets outside of Chicago. If you don't go to Kent, go to Pacific or Hofstra. You should always check out the curves at schools that offer scholarships. If the requirement is 3.0 and the school has a 2.8 curve, you're in trouble; it's a sucker's bet. The GPA minimum should always be below the curve, so that the highest you have to place is 50th percentile/median.


I agree that Kent is underrated, and Kent probably deserves to be ranked in the mid-50s (based on their medians and job outlook), but that still doesn't make up for the difference between free and sticker.

But I agree with your advice on checking out the curve first. 3.0 doesn't sound too terrible, but you never know with TTTT schools.


+1 I know a guy who took a full ride at UC Hastings over a sticker at WUSTL a few years ago (before they changed that nasty curve they had). He didn't want to go biglaw, he wanted to be a prosecutor. When he got there, he ran into a bunch of Stanford, Berkeley and UCLA rejects who were trying to slit each other's throats. He hated it. He wound up losing his scholarship after 1L because he landed in the 70% or something like it. I'm not going to be that guy. OP should be able to leverage Valpo for some money. If she can even get $20K at Kent, she wins. And people shouldn't assume that schools won't bargain against a much lower ranked school. If they think they could lose you, they will deal.

You have to check the grade trends at schools. If the curve is 2.8 or so, OP should negotiate the scholly minimum down to 2.75 or 2.5 before accepting it. Like I said, you should never accept a scholly that requires you to be anything better than 50%, and at some schools, you should not have to be above 60%.

As for OP's stats, there are URM splitters with similar numbers getting into lower T14 (i.e., Duke, Cornell, GULC). Kent should pay OP.


Thanks so much. This has been more than helpful. I found Kent's curve, but Valparaiso has made it near impossible to find their curve online so I may have to ask someone. I'm not sure how to bargain with a school about money. If Kent doesn't offer me any do I send an email asking for money telling them about my full scholarship at Valpo? At this point in the game, I really want to go to Kent regardless. My fiance and I have saved just about enough money to get us through my first year so at least that should buffer the overall cost a little. He will also continue to work full-time while I'm in school so there will be income. There's such a huge difference between Kent and Valpo with job prospects, alumni network, ect. If Valpo didn't throw this scholly at me I wouldn't have thought about it for a minute. My fiance made an excel spreadsheet showing me what I'd need to make out of law school to make up for the opportunity costs of quitting my job and being in debt from law school...and it's not much: $40,000 since I make hardly anything at my current job with no debt from undergrad. I appreciate all the feedback...keep it coming!

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Re: Kent at sticker vs. TTTT with full scholarship

Postby as stars burn » Fri Mar 12, 2010 3:03 am

Well...good news...I got some money at Kent so unless UF or UNC pulls through for me...that's where I'm going :)




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