Is the Vault 100 the equivalent to US News School rankings?

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RealTalk
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Is the Vault 100 the equivalent to US News School rankings?

Postby RealTalk » Sun Feb 28, 2010 4:12 pm

Is it considered the de facto rankings for prestige like USNWR is?

I'm trying to determine what firms I should target heading into law school.

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dbt
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Re: Is the Vault 100 the equivalent to US News School rankings?

Postby dbt » Sun Feb 28, 2010 4:28 pm

RealTalk wrote:Is it considered the de facto rankings for prestige like USNWR is?

I'm trying to determine what firms I should target heading into law school.


pretty much, but you shouldn't target until you've gotten 1L grades back (at least 1st semester).

Mr. Pablo
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Re: Is the Vault 100 the equivalent to US News School rankings?

Postby Mr. Pablo » Sun Feb 28, 2010 4:34 pm

dbt wrote:
RealTalk wrote:Is it considered the de facto rankings for prestige like USNWR is?

I'm trying to determine what firms I should target heading into law school.


pretty much, but you shouldn't target until you've gotten 1L grades back (at least 1st semester).


Except that I think the V100 firms are all super-large, and I think the list excludes the smaller boutique firms that though they are small, they are also very prestigious. I could be wrong, its happened before.

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OperaSoprano
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Re: Is the Vault 100 the equivalent to US News School rankings?

Postby OperaSoprano » Sun Feb 28, 2010 4:56 pm

dbt wrote:
RealTalk wrote:Is it considered the de facto rankings for prestige like USNWR is?

I'm trying to determine what firms I should target heading into law school.


pretty much, but you shouldn't target until you've gotten 1L grades back (at least 1st semester).


This. From a friend who is a Yale grad working at a top firm, even there they care how many Hs people have. Unreal. The higher you climb in the USNews rankings, the larger your margin for GPA error, but I was pretty shocked to hear my friend make that comment. I don't think it was very good for my personal anxiety level. I'm not targeting top firms, but I do want to be employed somewhere. :?

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prezidentv8
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Re: Is the Vault 100 the equivalent to US News School rankings?

Postby prezidentv8 » Sun Feb 28, 2010 4:58 pm

OperaSoprano wrote:
dbt wrote:
RealTalk wrote:Is it considered the de facto rankings for prestige like USNWR is?

I'm trying to determine what firms I should target heading into law school.


pretty much, but you shouldn't target until you've gotten 1L grades back (at least 1st semester).


This. From a friend who is a Yale grad working at a top firm, even there they care how many Hs people have. Unreal. The higher you climb in the USNews rankings, the larger your margin for GPA error, but I was pretty shocked to hear my friend make that comment. I don't think it was very good for my personal anxiety level. I'm not targeting top firms, but I do want to be employed somewhere. :?

:shock: :shock: :shock:
That's kinda screwed for the Yalies.

Renzo
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Re: Is the Vault 100 the equivalent to US News School rankings?

Postby Renzo » Sun Feb 28, 2010 5:51 pm

Mr. Pablo wrote:
dbt wrote:
RealTalk wrote:Is it considered the de facto rankings for prestige like USNWR is?

I'm trying to determine what firms I should target heading into law school.


pretty much, but you shouldn't target until you've gotten 1L grades back (at least 1st semester).


Except that I think the V100 firms are all super-large, and I think the list excludes the smaller boutique firms that though they are small, they are also very prestigious. I could be wrong, its happened before.

The V100 is mostly big firms, but it isn't just a ranking of big firms like the NLJ250 (all of which are big, not all of which are prestigious). There are a few, like Quinn Emanuel, that are not quite "boutiques", but are mid-size specialty practices.

Mr. Pablo
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Re: Is the Vault 100 the equivalent to US News School rankings?

Postby Mr. Pablo » Sun Feb 28, 2010 5:55 pm

Thank you for clarifying that Renzo. I had thought they were just competing rankings. Good to know.

Renzo
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Re: Is the Vault 100 the equivalent to US News School rankings?

Postby Renzo » Sun Feb 28, 2010 6:03 pm

Mr. Pablo wrote:Thank you for clarifying that Renzo. I had thought they were just competing rankings. Good to know.

The NLJ 250 ranks based on size alone. The AmLaw 100 is ranked by revenue, but the V100 is based on a survey of lawyers, so it's a different kind of metric. You're right, however, in that a firm has to be relatively large (or really famous) to make it in the survey in the first place.

270910
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Re: Is the Vault 100 the equivalent to US News School rankings?

Postby 270910 » Sun Feb 28, 2010 7:05 pm

The V100 is nothing like US News for law schools. With law schools, it's basically spot on for most employment prospects. i.e. it's actually ranking something.

With Vault, their methodology is exclusively a survey of 'prestige' amongst attorneys. That's it. Period.

It glosses over hugely important details like location. It massively favors large NYC firms.

There are more 'exceptions' to the Vault rankings than can be counted, there really aren't any with U.S. News for law schools.

For firms you kind of have to start with where you want to practice, then (broadly speaking) what you want to practice. At that point you need to consult several different sources to come up with any good information about where you should head.

If you are at a NYC law school and want to do large corporate work, the vault rankings are Golden(TM). If your interests vary even slightly, they are of questionable utility.

Renzo
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Re: Is the Vault 100 the equivalent to US News School rankings?

Postby Renzo » Sun Feb 28, 2010 10:06 pm

disco_barred wrote:The V100 is nothing like US News for law schools. With law schools, it's basically spot on for most employment prospects. i.e. it's actually ranking something.

With Vault, their methodology is exclusively a survey of 'prestige' amongst attorneys. That's it. Period.

It glosses over hugely important details like location. It massively favors large NYC firms.

There are more 'exceptions' to the Vault rankings than can be counted, there really aren't any with U.S. News for law schools.

For firms you kind of have to start with where you want to practice, then (broadly speaking) what you want to practice. At that point you need to consult several different sources to come up with any good information about where you should head.

If you are at a NYC law school and want to do large corporate work, the vault rankings are Golden(TM). If your interests vary even slightly, they are of questionable utility.

I would disagree with the contention that USNWR are meaningfully correlated with job opportunities, beyond a few bright-line cutoffs (T6, T10, etc.).

I would also sort of disagree with your assessment of the Vault rankings, sort of. The Vault rankings are useful for those headed to big-city biglaw gigs, in that they help someone figure out where they have a realistic shot, and where they'd be wasting an OCI bid. It essentially tells someone at the median at U Penn not to waste an OCI bid on Wachtell.

RealTalk
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Re: Is the Vault 100 the equivalent to US News School rankings?

Postby RealTalk » Sun Feb 28, 2010 10:16 pm

disco_barred wrote:The V100 is nothing like US News for law schools. With law schools, it's basically spot on for most employment prospects. i.e. it's actually ranking something.

With Vault, their methodology is exclusively a survey of 'prestige' amongst attorneys. That's it. Period.

It glosses over hugely important details like location. It massively favors large NYC firms.

There are more 'exceptions' to the Vault rankings than can be counted, there really aren't any with U.S. News for law schools.

For firms you kind of have to start with where you want to practice, then (broadly speaking) what you want to practice. At that point you need to consult several different sources to come up with any good information about where you should head.

If you are at a NYC law school and want to do large corporate work, the vault rankings are Golden(TM). If your interests vary even slightly, they are of questionable utility.


I'm probably in at Columbia and most likely going.

does anyone know where I can find a list of how much the top firms in vault pay their first year associates? not just base salary cause I know that around 160k but including bonuses cause I know those vary?

Renzo
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Re: Is the Vault 100 the equivalent to US News School rankings?

Postby Renzo » Sun Feb 28, 2010 10:21 pm

RealTalk wrote:
disco_barred wrote:The V100 is nothing like US News for law schools. With law schools, it's basically spot on for most employment prospects. i.e. it's actually ranking something.

With Vault, their methodology is exclusively a survey of 'prestige' amongst attorneys. That's it. Period.

It glosses over hugely important details like location. It massively favors large NYC firms.

There are more 'exceptions' to the Vault rankings than can be counted, there really aren't any with U.S. News for law schools.

For firms you kind of have to start with where you want to practice, then (broadly speaking) what you want to practice. At that point you need to consult several different sources to come up with any good information about where you should head.

If you are at a NYC law school and want to do large corporate work, the vault rankings are Golden(TM). If your interests vary even slightly, they are of questionable utility.


I'm probably in at Columbia and most likely going.

does anyone know where I can find a list of how much the top firms in vault pay their first year associates? not just base salary cause I know that around 160k but including bonuses cause I know those vary?

There isn't a single list I know of, but watch Above the Law and the other blogs. Usually when firms announce bonuses they My advice to you is not to look at such things right now. Until you get your 1L grades in hand, there's no sense in worrying about where you'll have a shot, even at CLS.

270910
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Re: Is the Vault 100 the equivalent to US News School rankings?

Postby 270910 » Sun Feb 28, 2010 10:21 pm

RealTalk wrote:does anyone know where I can find a list of how much the top firms in vault pay their first year associates? not just base salary cause I know that around 160k but including bonuses cause I know those vary?


They don't vary. Welcome to the legal profession!

Renzo
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Re: Is the Vault 100 the equivalent to US News School rankings?

Postby Renzo » Sun Feb 28, 2010 10:23 pm

disco_barred wrote:
RealTalk wrote:does anyone know where I can find a list of how much the top firms in vault pay their first year associates? not just base salary cause I know that around 160k but including bonuses cause I know those vary?


They don't vary. Welcome to the legal profession!

Bonuses are a little crazy these days, but yeah... It used to be market salary was "Cravath with a Half-Skadden bonus"




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