Shot at Chicago ED for a splitter?

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ConsideringLawSchool
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Shot at Chicago ED for a splitter?

Postby ConsideringLawSchool » Sat Feb 27, 2010 3:27 pm

177 (took it once, would retake if advised)

3.25 (pretty good explanations including family illness/death)

Very strong softs (earned a fair amount of national media attention as well as some international media). Good deal of leadership experience.

Will have 3 years post-college work experience

Thanks!

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PrayingforHYS
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Re: Shot at Chicago ED for a splitter?

Postby PrayingforHYS » Sat Feb 27, 2010 3:35 pm

the law school predictor gives you a 47% chance ("consider") at UChicago without ED, and though the percentages don't update, you're upgraded to a "strong consider" at UChicago with ED.

if you were applying regularly, i'd say you'd be a close bet between waitlist/accept regular decision, but I think that with ED there that you'd be a very good candidate.

hth

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DOOM
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Re: Shot at Chicago ED for a splitter?

Postby DOOM » Sat Feb 27, 2010 3:46 pm

If you are 100% set on Chicago for sticker. ED. you will most certainly get in.

Otherwise, I would avoid the ED, with a 177 you will get more than one offer from the T10 and a chance at some money. good luck. your softs and GPA explanation also give the impression that Chicago will accept you as a regular candidate anyways (maybe waitlist). apply early and include a "Why Chicago" addendum. (not many people do it, but Dean Perry is open to receiving them)

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DOOM
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Re: Shot at Chicago ED for a splitter?

Postby DOOM » Sat Feb 27, 2010 3:51 pm

also, Northwestern will love your work experience.

really, i think your best strategy here is not to apply ED, but be sure to communicate your specific interest in each school with your applications. If you are convincing, Chicago will accept you as a regular candidate.

ConsideringLawSchool
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Re: Shot at Chicago ED for a splitter?

Postby ConsideringLawSchool » Sat Feb 27, 2010 3:54 pm

DOOM wrote:also, Northwestern will love your work experience.

really, i think your best strategy here is not to apply ED, but be sure to communicate your specific interest in each school with your applications. If you are convincing, Chicago will accept you as a regular candidate.


Northwestern is the only T10 where I am quit confident I could be admitted

ConsideringLawSchool
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Re: Shot at Chicago ED for a splitter?

Postby ConsideringLawSchool » Sat Feb 27, 2010 3:55 pm

DOOM wrote:If you are 100% set on Chicago for sticker. ED. you will most certainly get in.

Otherwise, I would avoid the ED, with a 177 you will get more than one offer from the T10 and a chance at some money. good luck. your softs and GPA explanation also give the impression that Chicago will accept you as a regular candidate anyways (maybe waitlist). apply early and include a "Why Chicago" addendum. (not many people do it, but Dean Perry is open to receiving them)


Will definitely do the Why Chicago (since they do have a very specific program because of which I want to go there). Thanks.

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DOOM
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Re: Shot at Chicago ED for a splitter?

Postby DOOM » Sat Feb 27, 2010 3:58 pm

ConsideringLawSchool wrote:
DOOM wrote:also, Northwestern will love your work experience.

really, i think your best strategy here is not to apply ED, but be sure to communicate your specific interest in each school with your applications. If you are convincing, Chicago will accept you as a regular candidate.


Northwestern is the only T10 where I am quit confident I could be admitted


nah, don't be so hard on your GPA, especially if you have a strong explanation for it. That 177 is a rare commodity and one few of the T10 will want to pass up, despite your lower than normal GPA. If you were closer to a 3.0, or below a 3.0, I would be more careful.

If i had to bet money on you, I would say NYU for sure would let you in. I think your chances of getting into one of Columbia/Chicago/Penn are pretty strong, Cornell/Georgetown/NU will take you in a heart beat.

Apply early and see how it goes. But avoid the Chicago ED and instead use an addendum.

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PrayingforHYS
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Re: Shot at Chicago ED for a splitter?

Postby PrayingforHYS » Sat Feb 27, 2010 4:15 pm

DOOM wrote:If you are 100% set on Chicago for sticker. ED. you will most certainly get in.


+1

it's really up to you -- i think that you would have a fairly good shot even in regular decision to UChicago (include the "Why Chicago"), and i dont know where you've applied/planning to apply, but i think you'd be a very good candidate at penn/duke/michigan/northwestern and probably even some money from a few of those

again, though, if--regardless of where else you get in and how much money they give you--your #1 choice is chicago and you're willing to pay sticker price, then go ahead and ED

if you're even entertaining the thought of a different school (duke might give you a nice financial aid package), then i'd just go with the regular apps

ConsideringLawSchool
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Re: Shot at Chicago ED for a splitter?

Postby ConsideringLawSchool » Sat Feb 27, 2010 4:40 pm

Would retaking be advisable for any reason? I believe I know exactly what I screwed up this time and would be able to avoid doing so next time

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TheWire
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Re: Shot at Chicago ED for a splitter?

Postby TheWire » Sat Feb 27, 2010 4:51 pm

OP, a lot of this advice is pretty poor. For one, do NOT send in a "Why Chicago" essay; they specifically tell applicants that they are not fond of supplemental materials. My advice to you, send in an ED to Chicago. A lot of people on TLS are making a big deal about $$$ from other schools. However, any school that would give you $$$ enough to sway you away from Chicago is probably not going to provide you with the same career opportunities as Chicago. Even ITE, Chicago's reputation will get you an excellent job. Congratulations on your score; if you are not deterred by the obnoxious lifestyle of UofC, ED there and enjoy the prospects of an elite law school education.

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AngryAvocado
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Re: Shot at Chicago ED for a splitter?

Postby AngryAvocado » Sat Feb 27, 2010 5:12 pm

TheWire wrote:OP, a lot of this advice is pretty poor. For one, do NOT send in a "Why Chicago" essay; they specifically tell applicants that they are not fond of supplemental materials. My advice to you, send in an ED to Chicago. A lot of people on TLS are making a big deal about $$$ from other schools. However, any school that would give you $$$ enough to sway you away from Chicago is probably not going to provide you with the same career opportunities as Chicago. Even ITE, Chicago's reputation will get you an excellent job. Congratulations on your score; if you are not deterred by the obnoxious lifestyle of UofC, ED there and enjoy the prospects of an elite law school education.


This.

I think Columbia and NYU are both pretty unlikely, particularly CLS. While they love their high LSATs, they both seem to have a GPA floor for non-URMs at around 3.4 and there simply aren't many exceptions over the past few years. I think you're wise to have your sights set on Chicago.

Regarding money, I'm applying with a significantly better GPA (though still under most 25ths) plus a >175 LSAT and I've yet to get a penny from the T14. I have, however, managed to get into Chicago. I don't think the money offers you'll be receiving as a sizable splitter would be worth taking over Chicago, personally, but that's your call.

Oh yeah, and +1 to not writing a Why essay for Chicago (or to any of HYSCCN for that matter).

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Stringer Bell
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Re: Shot at Chicago ED for a splitter?

Postby Stringer Bell » Sat Feb 27, 2010 5:32 pm

AngryAvocado wrote:
TheWire wrote:OP, a lot of this advice is pretty poor. For one, do NOT send in a "Why Chicago" essay; they specifically tell applicants that they are not fond of supplemental materials. My advice to you, send in an ED to Chicago. A lot of people on TLS are making a big deal about $$$ from other schools. However, any school that would give you $$$ enough to sway you away from Chicago is probably not going to provide you with the same career opportunities as Chicago. Even ITE, Chicago's reputation will get you an excellent job. Congratulations on your score; if you are not deterred by the obnoxious lifestyle of UofC, ED there and enjoy the prospects of an elite law school education.


This.

I think Columbia and NYU are both pretty unlikely, particularly CLS. While they love their high LSATs, they both seem to have a GPA floor for non-URMs at around 3.4 and there simply aren't many exceptions over the past few years. I think you're wise to have your sights set on Chicago.

Regarding money, I'm applying with a significantly better GPA (though still under most 25ths) plus a >175 LSAT and I've yet to get a penny from the T14. I have, however, managed to get into Chicago. I don't think the money offers you'll be receiving as a sizable splitter would be worth taking over Chicago, personally, but that's your call.

Oh yeah, and +1 to not writing a Why essay for Chicago (or to any of HYSCCN for that matter).


+1 to all of this. NU and GULC are going to be the only probable acceptances if you don't use an ED. Being a mega splitter is tough, even with strong softs and WE (I'm one myself). You sound like you will have a strong app, so it's possible you could sweep from Columbia on down (minus Boalt of course) and get some T10 money. It's also possible to completely strike out of the T17. Now I'd be extremely surprised if you didn't get into NU, but you won't get any money there. I personally chose to ED at UVA because I think it is a better fit for me than NU would have been and the CCN "upgrade" wasn't that big of a deal for me personally. Based on your post I would advise you to ED at Chicago if you think you would want to go there.

Edit: Oh, and to answer your question about your chances, I would say 50-50 off the top of my head, but I don't know if that's accurate.

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rayiner
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Re: Shot at Chicago ED for a splitter?

Postby rayiner » Sat Feb 27, 2010 7:52 pm

^^^ You're high. You can strike out at MVP with a 175+/3.2x, but you have to do dumb things in your app (not writing the Why Mich? or Why Penn?).

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JustDude
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Re: Shot at Chicago ED for a splitter?

Postby JustDude » Sat Feb 27, 2010 8:00 pm

ConsideringLawSchool wrote:177 (took it once, would retake if advised)

3.25 (pretty good explanations including family illness/death)

Very strong softs (earned a fair amount of national media attention as well as some international media). Good deal of leadership experience.

Will have 3 years post-college work experience

Thanks!



If you are set for Chicago, go ED. I mean, you are most likely out at YHS, so next level is CCN. Go ED everywhere there. What you ve got to lose???..

Going to binding ED to a lower school would be stupid, but to the Highest possible should be OK

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scribelaw
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Re: Shot at Chicago ED for a splitter?

Postby scribelaw » Sat Feb 27, 2010 8:01 pm

If you want CCN, definitely ED to Chicago.

But if you want more options, you have a pretty good shot at decent money at Michigan, maybe in the $45-$54k range.

ConsideringLawSchool
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Re: Shot at Chicago ED for a splitter?

Postby ConsideringLawSchool » Sat Feb 27, 2010 8:11 pm

JustDude wrote:
ConsideringLawSchool wrote:177 (took it once, would retake if advised)

3.25 (pretty good explanations including family illness/death)

Very strong softs (earned a fair amount of national media attention as well as some international media). Good deal of leadership experience.

Will have 3 years post-college work experience

Thanks!



If you are set for Chicago, go ED. I mean, you are most likely out at YHS, so next level is CCN. Go ED everywhere there. What you ve got to lose???..

Going to binding ED to a lower school would be stupid, but to the Highest possible should be OK


I could apply to Harvard, then ED Chicago assuming I haven't heard anything by the Chicago deadline. At this point, though, I think Chicago is the school I'd most like to attend.

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scribelaw
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Re: Shot at Chicago ED for a splitter?

Postby scribelaw » Sat Feb 27, 2010 8:13 pm

ConsideringLawSchool wrote:
JustDude wrote:
ConsideringLawSchool wrote:177 (took it once, would retake if advised)

3.25 (pretty good explanations including family illness/death)

Very strong softs (earned a fair amount of national media attention as well as some international media). Good deal of leadership experience.

Will have 3 years post-college work experience

Thanks!



If you are set for Chicago, go ED. I mean, you are most likely out at YHS, so next level is CCN. Go ED everywhere there. What you ve got to lose???..

Going to binding ED to a lower school would be stupid, but to the Highest possible should be OK


I could apply to Harvard, then ED Chicago assuming I haven't heard anything by the Chicago deadline. At this point, though, I think Chicago is the school I'd most like to attend.


You are not getting in to Harvard.

ConsideringLawSchool
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Re: Shot at Chicago ED for a splitter?

Postby ConsideringLawSchool » Sat Feb 27, 2010 8:19 pm

scribelaw wrote:
ConsideringLawSchool wrote:
JustDude wrote:
ConsideringLawSchool wrote:177 (took it once, would retake if advised)

3.25 (pretty good explanations including family illness/death)

Very strong softs (earned a fair amount of national media attention as well as some international media). Good deal of leadership experience.

Will have 3 years post-college work experience

Thanks!



If you are set for Chicago, go ED. I mean, you are most likely out at YHS, so next level is CCN. Go ED everywhere there. What you ve got to lose???..

Going to binding ED to a lower school would be stupid, but to the Highest possible should be OK


I could apply to Harvard, then ED Chicago assuming I haven't heard anything by the Chicago deadline. At this point, though, I think Chicago is the school I'd most like to attend.


You are not getting in to Harvard.


I agree. I actually, at this moment, would rather go to Chicago anyway.

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DOOM
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Re: Shot at Chicago ED for a splitter?

Postby DOOM » Sat Feb 27, 2010 8:21 pm

I'm going to stand by my recommendation to include a Why Chicago addendum, especially if you ED'd. I've personally heard Dean Perry, in speaking with her or at recruitment-related presentation, on more than one occasion say that said she is open to such a supplement. (Also mentioned on the TLS interview with Perry and the TLS profile of UChicago in the admissions section) Obviously don't overload your file with unnecessary items, but there is no reason this will hurt you.

Do what you feel comfortable doing though.

also, i might be off on some of my predictions for NYU/Columbia etc. but, contrary to what my avatar may imply, i just tend to be more optimistic about everything. :) be sure to take into account everyone's thoughts, but send out an app, you never truly know until you hear back. Sounds like you like chicago though, so ED there.
Last edited by DOOM on Sat Feb 27, 2010 8:37 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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DOOM
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Re: Shot at Chicago ED for a splitter?

Postby DOOM » Sat Feb 27, 2010 8:25 pm

here you go. take it or leave it. [Taken from the TLS profile and TLS Dean Perry Interview]

"The school doesn’t ask for any optional essays or materials besides a resume. Chicago Dean of Admissions Ann Perry advised students not to send in information that is not requested, but a “Why Chicago?” essay or something of the like can be an asset. She said:

It’s fine if they want [to send in an extra essay] — they can add it to their personal statement. I am a fan of addendums. If they feel there’s something they really want the admissions committee to know that already isn’t in their application in another way, addendums work in that way. Sometimes I think about going to a Why Chicago question; I haven’t yet, though."

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scribelaw
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Re: Shot at Chicago ED for a splitter?

Postby scribelaw » Sat Feb 27, 2010 8:26 pm

ConsideringLawSchool wrote:
scribelaw wrote:
You are not getting in to Harvard.


I agree. I actually, at this moment, would rather go to Chicago anyway.


But congrats on the awesome LSAT.

I think you have a really solid shot at Chicago and you're a lock to have multiple options among MVP and Northwestern.

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Richie Tenenbaum
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Re: Shot at Chicago ED for a splitter?

Postby Richie Tenenbaum » Sat Feb 27, 2010 8:28 pm

If you are happy with sticker at Chicago, then Chicago ED makes the most sense. Harvard happening is doubtful and the risk of being locked out of everywhere else besides NU with no money is all too possible (though if you have killer softs, that would probably not happen).

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AngryAvocado
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Re: Shot at Chicago ED for a splitter?

Postby AngryAvocado » Sun Feb 28, 2010 12:00 am

DOOM wrote:I'm going to stand by my recommendation to include a Why Chicago addendum, especially if you ED'd. I've personally heard Dean Perry, in speaking with her or at recruitment-related presentation, on more than one occasion say that said she is open to such a supplement. (Also mentioned on the TLS interview with Perry and the TLS profile of UChicago in the admissions section) Obviously don't overload your file with unnecessary items, but there is no reason this will hurt you.


Open to such a supplement =/= recommends such a supplement. And yes, I think it can hurt him (which I'll get to below).

DOOM wrote:here you go. take it or leave it. [Taken from the TLS profile and TLS Dean Perry Interview]

"The school doesn’t ask for any optional essays or materials besides a resume. Chicago Dean of Admissions Ann Perry advised students not to send in information that is not requested, but a “Why Chicago?” essay or something of the like can be an asset. She said:

It’s fine if they want [to send in an extra essay] — they can add it to their personal statement. I am a fan of addendums. If they feel there’s something they really want the admissions committee to know that already isn’t in their application in another way, addendums work in that way. Sometimes I think about going to a Why Chicago question; I haven’t yet, though."


This seems like TLS sort of put words into her mouth. She never really said that a "Why" essay could be an asset, just that she's a fan of addenda that explain or clarify something (like the addendum he'll be submitting explaining his GPA).

Aside from that, I just really don't see the purpose of a "Why" essay if you're EDing somewhere. They already know you obviously think quite highly of the school if you're willing to commit to attend before even being admitted, and a "Why" essay only adds jumble to your application. Plus, if you're "Why" Essay has grammatical errors, comes across as poorly written or insincere, or is otherwise generic/lackluster, I really think it can and will hurt you. It shows a lack of judgment on the part of the candidate to submit something extraneous that doesn't really add to his application in a meaningful way, particularly when they already know you'd attend if admitted.

This is just a hunch, but I think my complete lack of extraneous information (I submitted just a PS, resume, application form, and LSAC report) actually helped me get in. I could've submitted extra stuff explaining the upward GPA trend, LSAT retake, etc., but I figured they'd be smart enough to realize I got my shit together in college and on the LSAT the second time around without me dancing around trying to come up with excuses and bogging them down even more than they already are.

Also, anecdotally, the few people I know of that submitted "Why" essays while also applying ED to CCN were straight up dinged by the school despite the fact that there numbers put them into, at worst, WL territory. Possibly just coincidence, but something to consider.

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Stringer Bell
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Re: Shot at Chicago ED for a splitter?

Postby Stringer Bell » Sun Feb 28, 2010 1:16 am

rayiner wrote:^^^ You're high. You can strike out at MVP with a 175+/3.2x, but you have to do dumb things in your app (not writing the Why Mich? or Why Penn?).


http://www.hourumd.com/?school=University%20of%20Pennsylvania&gpa=3.15-3.29&lsat=175-177

http://www.hourumd.com/?school=University%20of%20Michigan%20Ann%20Arbor&gpa=3.15-3.29&lsat=175-177

http://www.hourumd.com/?school=University%20of%20Virginia&gpa=3.15-3.29&lsat=175-177

I'm not high. Those numbers are not a sure thing at MVP.

ConsideringLawSchool
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Re: Shot at Chicago ED for a splitter?

Postby ConsideringLawSchool » Sun Feb 28, 2010 9:07 pm

Richie Tenenbaum wrote:If you are happy with sticker at Chicago, then Chicago ED makes the most sense. Harvard happening is doubtful and the risk of being locked out of everywhere else besides NU with no money is all too possible (though if you have killer softs, that would probably not happen).


I agree. I think Chicago ED it is--though it's hard to see the disadvantage to tossing in an early app to Harvard if I ended up preferring Harvard for some reason.




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