Something wrong with the US News rankings?...

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Havaianas
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Re: Something wrong with the US News rankings?...

Postby Havaianas » Sun Feb 28, 2010 3:11 pm

quickquestionthanks wrote:
SandyC877 wrote:
quickquestionthanks wrote:Yeah, if Yale had a median 153 or Harvard had a median 180, then the acceptance rate, employment/salary, peer assessment and ALL of those factors would be different than they actually are. They would move with that variable. If anything, he proves his own point by showing that the slight variations in LSAT scores are not the exact cause for the ranking differentiation.

This is why lawyers shouldn't get involved in multiple regression analysis.


150ish vs 180 is a slight variation?


I'm referring to reality, as opposed to some strange hypothetical scenario in which Yale and Harvard become magically retarded/delicious.

So in reality, the Yale LSAT is slightly higher than Harvard's, but apparently that is not the cause for the difference in ranking. Apparently the LSAT is weighted so lightly that all of the ancillary factors overwhelm its effect. And that's probably a good thing. I think this shows the strength in the US News rankings, not the weakness.

I also agree with someone who posted earlier, that the flaw isn't in the formula, but in the process which becomes self fulfilling.


But it is a problem if the other factors are flawed. It is also a problem considering the LSAT differences cause a bigger discrepancy for schools with lower medians than schools with higher medians. The effect should be equal across the board.

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Cleareyes
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Re: Something wrong with the US News rankings?...

Postby Cleareyes » Sun Feb 28, 2010 3:22 pm

SandyC877 wrote:Truth is, HYS and other T14 law schools, like their undergrads, will always be ranked at the top. It's a game less "traditioned" institutions cannot beat based on numbers alone. But who cares about them. What concerns me is that there's absolutely nothing in the US NEWS ranking to suggest that the quality of education or life at the top schools are better than some of the lesser ranked. Have you been inside the Yale library? it's shit, and that's just the library. Or Imagine Harvard spending even half of their tuition $ to services that directly impact their student body. No chance of that happening. They'll hoard that shit to increase their endowment for display. Maybe if all the prestige whores, by whom I mean every single one of us applying to law schools, cared about something a little more than rankings, we wouldn't see losers posting their T14 degrees on Ebay.

/end rant



If you include professor salaries, financial aid, and various infrastructure costs as "services that directly impact the student body." then there's a good chance that Harvard spends more than the money they take in as tuition on these things. Endowment increases come through big alumni donations, not hoarding tuition money.

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invisiblesun
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Re: Something wrong with the US News rankings?...

Postby invisiblesun » Sun Feb 28, 2010 3:56 pm

Cleareyes wrote:
SandyC877 wrote:Truth is, HYS and other T14 law schools, like their undergrads, will always be ranked at the top. It's a game less "traditioned" institutions cannot beat based on numbers alone. But who cares about them. What concerns me is that there's absolutely nothing in the US NEWS ranking to suggest that the quality of education or life at the top schools are better than some of the lesser ranked. Have you been inside the Yale library? it's shit, and that's just the library. Or Imagine Harvard spending even half of their tuition $ to services that directly impact their student body. No chance of that happening. They'll hoard that shit to increase their endowment for display. Maybe if all the prestige whores, by whom I mean every single one of us applying to law schools, cared about something a little more than rankings, we wouldn't see losers posting their T14 degrees on Ebay.

/end rant



If you include professor salaries, financial aid, and various infrastructure costs as "services that directly impact the student body." then there's a good chance that Harvard spends more than the money they take in as tuition on these things. Endowment increases come through big alumni donations, not hoarding tuition money.


+1. Sandy, you're way off base here. In fact, one of the main determinants of the rankings is how much money the law school spends per student. This is one of the reasons Yale is so firmly ahead of Harvard; they've kept their student body much smaller. Nonetheless, I read an interview with Dean Zearfoss of Michigan and she mentioned that the $$/student spending is weighted quite heavily in the rankings, therefore vastly decreasing any incentive to hoard tuition. In fact, schools tend to spend much more per student than the amount of the tuition.

SandyC877
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Re: Something wrong with the US News rankings?...

Postby SandyC877 » Mon Mar 01, 2010 5:07 am

invisiblesun wrote:
Cleareyes wrote:
SandyC877 wrote:Truth is, HYS and other T14 law schools, like their undergrads, will always be ranked at the top. It's a game less "traditioned" institutions cannot beat based on numbers alone. But who cares about them. What concerns me is that there's absolutely nothing in the US NEWS ranking to suggest that the quality of education or life at the top schools are better than some of the lesser ranked. Have you been inside the Yale library? it's shit, and that's just the library. Or Imagine Harvard spending even half of their tuition $ to services that directly impact their student body. No chance of that happening. They'll hoard that shit to increase their endowment for display. Maybe if all the prestige whores, by whom I mean every single one of us applying to law schools, cared about something a little more than rankings, we wouldn't see losers posting their T14 degrees on Ebay.

/end rant



If you include professor salaries, financial aid, and various infrastructure costs as "services that directly impact the student body." then there's a good chance that Harvard spends more than the money they take in as tuition on these things. Endowment increases come through big alumni donations, not hoarding tuition money.


+1. Sandy, you're way off base here. In fact, one of the main determinants of the rankings is how much money the law school spends per student. This is one of the reasons Yale is so firmly ahead of Harvard; they've kept their student body much smaller. Nonetheless, I read an interview with Dean Zearfoss of Michigan and she mentioned that the $$/student spending is weighted quite heavily in the rankings, therefore vastly decreasing any incentive to hoard tuition. In fact, schools tend to spend much more per student than the amount of the tuition.


Read what constitutes "spending on students." Also, scholarship given out to students are not covered under "spending on students." I haven't read anyone on TLS who went to Yale/Harvard on scholarship. But I understand. Why would these schools give it out? they will always be at the top and giving scholarship money doesn't help them.




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