Is This A Good List?

(Applications Advice, Letters of Recommendation . . . )
User avatar
Bauer24
Posts: 53
Joined: Thu May 01, 2008 2:53 am

Is This A Good List?

Postby Bauer24 » Fri Feb 26, 2010 2:03 am

My stats 3.0 GPA/177 LSAT.

Harvard
Stanford
Columbia
NYU
Chicago
UVA
Northwestern
Cornell
Georgetown
UCLA
USC
Minnesota
Illinois
George Washington
Fordham
Cardozo
DePaul

What should I add? What should I take out?
I have a good idea of what my chances are at all of these places.
I'm applying next year and since I'm still finishing up my last semester- I think my GPA will be a little higher by the time I graduate.
(Freshman GPA: 2.1)

swimbrad
Posts: 184
Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2009 12:02 am

Re: Is This A Good List?

Postby swimbrad » Fri Feb 26, 2010 2:09 am

On the top, why not add Yale if you're going for H and S.

In the middle:
Penn
Michigan
(I'd get rid of NW unless you have good W/E, b/c it's a super expensive app)
Duke
Texas
Vandy
WUSTL

hth - and get that GPA up as much as humanly possible!! (esp. w/ that LSAT)

NewtonLied
Posts: 77
Joined: Sat Feb 20, 2010 6:16 pm

Re: Is This A Good List?

Postby NewtonLied » Fri Feb 26, 2010 2:13 am

word

DukeHopeful
Posts: 175
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2010 3:14 pm

Re: Is This A Good List?

Postby DukeHopeful » Fri Feb 26, 2010 2:16 am

Are you a URM? I have a hard time believing you have a shot at HYS with that GPA, and probably a few others towards the top of your list as well. Hopefully you're an engineering major, or have a compelling story as to why your grades were so low early on in college. Honestly, I would try to parlay that LSAT score into some good money from some lower T14 or other T20 schools if I was you. You should find a few that would be willing to pay for an LSAT that high.

User avatar
Stringer Bell
Posts: 1924
Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2009 9:43 pm

Re: Is This A Good List?

Postby Stringer Bell » Fri Feb 26, 2010 2:25 am

Our numbers are pretty similar.

If you are looking at the best chance to get in to the best school possible, you could ED to UVA and have a really good shot at getting in. H and S are going to be borderline impossible. CCN is a possibility, but it is very rare they dip below a 3.4-3.5. An ED would help at all of them, but if you are going to ED, UVA would be more strategic. NU would be a really good chance if you were a year or two removed from school. Cornell seems to have a 3.3 cutoff, but it could be a possibility with a compelling story. If you get your GPA to 3.1 GULC should likely be in.

User avatar
Richie Tenenbaum
Posts: 2162
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 6:17 am

Re: Is This A Good List?

Postby Richie Tenenbaum » Fri Feb 26, 2010 2:38 am

Bauer24 wrote:My stats 3.0 GPA/177 LSAT.

Harvard
Stanford
Columbia
NYU
Chicago
UVA
Northwestern
Cornell
Georgetown
UCLA
USC
Minnesota
Illinois
George Washington
Fordham
Cardozo
DePaul

What should I add? What should I take out?
I have a good idea of what my chances are at all of these places.
I'm applying next year and since I'm still finishing up my last semester- I think my GPA will be a little higher by the time I graduate.
(Freshman GPA: 2.1)


I would drop Harvard and Stanford, unless URM. The only people who got accepted to either in the last couple of years with a GPA that low were URM with the exception of a professional soccer player. I would drop Cardozo and DePaul too, as well as probably Minnesota and Illinois (unless you have personal reasons for wanting to live in either location). Also, keep in mind that the lower GPA is probably going to be problematic at UCLA and USC. Unless you want Cali, I would cut them. Prob cut Fordham too for same reason. Out of UCLA, Vandy, and UT, UT seems the most splitter friendly.

Consider adding Michigan, Penn, and WUSTL.

My final would look like:
Columbia (big reach)
Chicago (big reach)
NYU (big reach)
Michigan (target)
UVA (target)
Penn (target)
NU (target)
Cornell (target)
GULC (target)
UT (target)
WUSTL (safety)
GW (safety)
+ 2 schools in the 20-30's where you would want to practice. So based on your list:
Illinois (safety)
Minnesota (safety)

Targets will probably be pretty unpredictable besides GULC. Apply early and make sure everything is perfect.

http://www.hourumd.com/?lsat=175-180&gpa=3.0-3.2

User avatar
Nom Sawyer
Posts: 933
Joined: Sun Jun 14, 2009 1:28 am

Re: Is This A Good List?

Postby Nom Sawyer » Fri Feb 26, 2010 2:45 am

Richie Tenenbaum wrote:
Bauer24 wrote:My stats 3.0 GPA/177 LSAT.

Harvard
Stanford
Columbia
NYU
Chicago
UVA
Northwestern
Cornell
Georgetown
UCLA
USC
Minnesota
Illinois
George Washington
Fordham
Cardozo
DePaul

What should I add? What should I take out?
I have a good idea of what my chances are at all of these places.
I'm applying next year and since I'm still finishing up my last semester- I think my GPA will be a little higher by the time I graduate.
(Freshman GPA: 2.1)


I would drop Harvard and Stanford, unless URM. The only people who got accepted to either in the last couple of years with a GPA that low were URM with the exception of a professional soccer player. I would drop Cardozo and DePaul too, as well as probably Minnesota and Illinois (unless you have personal reasons for wanting to live in either location). Also, keep in mind that the lower GPA is probably going to be problematic at UCLA and USC. Unless you want Cali, I would cut them. Prob cut Fordham too for same reason. Out of UCLA, Vandy, and UT, UT seems the most splitter friendly.

Consider adding Michigan, Penn, and WUSTL.

My final would look like:
Columbia (big reach)
Chicago (big reach)
NYU (big reach)
Michigan (target)
UVA (target)
Penn (target)
NU (target)
Cornell (target)
GULC (target)
UT (target)
WUSTL (safety)
GW (safety)
+ 2 schools in the 20-30's where you would want to practice. So based on your list:
Illinois (safety)
Minnesota (safety)

Targets will probably be pretty unpredictable besides GULC. Apply early and make sure everything is perfect.

http://www.hourumd.com/?lsat=175-180&gpa=3.0-3.2


second this post... seems pretty accurate

Marisa5252
Posts: 91
Joined: Sat Jan 09, 2010 10:14 am

Re: Is This A Good List?

Postby Marisa5252 » Fri Feb 26, 2010 9:19 am

Nom Sawyer wrote:
Richie Tenenbaum wrote:
Bauer24 wrote:My stats 3.0 GPA/177 LSAT.

Harvard
Stanford
Columbia
NYU
Chicago
UVA
Northwestern
Cornell
Georgetown
UCLA
USC
Minnesota
Illinois
George Washington
Fordham
Cardozo
DePaul

What should I add? What should I take out?
I have a good idea of what my chances are at all of these places.
I'm applying next year and since I'm still finishing up my last semester- I think my GPA will be a little higher by the time I graduate.
(Freshman GPA: 2.1)


I would drop Harvard and Stanford, unless URM. The only people who got accepted to either in the last couple of years with a GPA that low were URM with the exception of a professional soccer player. I would drop Cardozo and DePaul too, as well as probably Minnesota and Illinois (unless you have personal reasons for wanting to live in either location). Also, keep in mind that the lower GPA is probably going to be problematic at UCLA and USC. Unless you want Cali, I would cut them. Prob cut Fordham too for same reason. Out of UCLA, Vandy, and UT, UT seems the most splitter friendly.

Consider adding Michigan, Penn, and WUSTL.

My final would look like:
Columbia (big reach)
Chicago (big reach)
NYU (big reach)
Michigan (target)
UVA (target)
Penn (target)
NU (target)
Cornell (target)
GULC (target)
UT (target)
WUSTL (safety)
GW (safety)
+ 2 schools in the 20-30's where you would want to practice. So based on your list:
Illinois (safety)
Minnesota (safety)

Targets will probably be pretty unpredictable besides GULC. Apply early and make sure everything is perfect.

http://www.hourumd.com/?lsat=175-180&gpa=3.0-3.2


second this post... seems pretty accurate


Third


and:

Stringer Bell wrote:Our numbers are pretty similar.

If you are looking at the best chance to get in to the best school possible, you could ED to UVA and have a really good shot at getting in. H and S are going to be borderline impossible. CCN is a possibility, but it is very rare they dip below a 3.4-3.5. An ED would help at all of them, but if you are going to ED, UVA would be more strategic. NU would be a really good chance if you were a year or two removed from school. Cornell seems to have a 3.3 cutoff, but it could be a possibility with a compelling story. If you get your GPA to 3.1 GULC should likely be in.



don't ED at UVA unless it's your dream school. Don't ED ANYWHERE unless there aren't any schools you're applying to that you'd rather go to. You'll be really bummed if NYU or someone takes a chance on you and you've ED'd at UVA.

User avatar
MURPH
Posts: 854
Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2008 12:20 am

Re: Is This A Good List?

Postby MURPH » Fri Feb 26, 2010 9:46 am

Any school that you would attend or could use for leverage for scholarship money and that gave you a fee waiver.

User avatar
Bauer24
Posts: 53
Joined: Thu May 01, 2008 2:53 am

Re: Is This A Good List?

Postby Bauer24 » Fri Feb 26, 2010 12:15 pm

Also out of curiosity, does being a Math major in college help out at all?
My Math GPA is higher than my actual GPA. (~3.3).
Any need for an addendum or is the upward trend enough?
To be honest, the only reason I can give is "too much partying".

Thanks Richie Tenenbaum! That seems like a good list.
I want to work in the Midwest after college- so Illinois/Minnesota would stay on the list.

Also should I add Duke?
However, there are two problems.
1.) It's where I'm currently attending college and I think I want to attend somewhere different for law school.
2.) Given its rank and prestige, Duke Law has a very low median LSAT but a very high median GPA... I think my kind of applicant isn't favored.

User avatar
Borhas
Posts: 4862
Joined: Sun Sep 27, 2009 6:09 pm

Re: Is This A Good List?

Postby Borhas » Fri Feb 26, 2010 12:21 pm

that low GPA is going to hurt, normally I think it's bad advice to just tell every strong applicant to ED to UVa, but UVa likes splitters, and they are probably the best school you have a reasonable chance of admission... so ED to UVa

PS Being a Math major won't help, though it probably helped develop your LSAT skills

User avatar
Stringer Bell
Posts: 1924
Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2009 9:43 pm

Re: Is This A Good List?

Postby Stringer Bell » Fri Feb 26, 2010 12:59 pm

Just a couple of notes.

Texas is not at all splitter friendly. I researched this pretty extensively since I am a Texas resident. On LSN, two years ago they took a 3.1, 179, Texas resident with good WE. That was the only non-urm splitter I could find that got accepted in the last few years. 3.4 seems to be their floor.

Anyone who says a splitter shouldn't ED unless it is to their dream school is not giving sound advice. I'm not saying you should since you have a decent major from a good UG and may have really good softs, but it is a risk management tool that greatly increases your chances. Striking out of the top 17 schools is a very real possibility with a sub 3.3 GPA. Go to the splitter thread and see how things are going for lots of folks. You are basically weighing the risk of striking out vs. the risk of being locked into a school. Now if you know you would not like UVA, NU or wherever, then of course you shouldn't ED there.

Duke is not at all splitter friendly.

The Math major helps a little, the Math GPA really doesn't since it's still not that high.

User avatar
JusticeHarlan
Posts: 1434
Joined: Tue Dec 15, 2009 2:56 pm

Re: Is This A Good List?

Postby JusticeHarlan » Fri Feb 26, 2010 2:02 pm

Stringer Bell wrote:Anyone who says a splitter shouldn't ED unless it is to their dream school is not giving sound advice. I'm not saying you should since you have a decent major from a good UG and may have really good softs, but it is a risk management tool that greatly increases your chances. Striking out of the top 17 schools is a very real possibility with a sub 3.3 GPA. Go to the splitter thread and see how things are going for lots of folks. You are basically weighing the risk of striking out vs. the risk of being locked into a school. Now if you know you would not like UVA, NU or wherever, then of course you shouldn't ED there.

The beauty of the UVA ED is that you can be strategic with it. You can ED somewhere else you really want to go, or just send apps out early and hope you hear back in a reasonably time, and if those strike out, you can send in a mid/late cycle ED to UVA, and with that LSAT they may still jump on it. No real reason to ED at UVA too early in the cycle unless its your top choice, assuming they have the same set up next year that they did this.

User avatar
Stringer Bell
Posts: 1924
Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2009 9:43 pm

Re: Is This A Good List?

Postby Stringer Bell » Fri Feb 26, 2010 2:40 pm

JusticeHarlan wrote:
Stringer Bell wrote:Anyone who says a splitter shouldn't ED unless it is to their dream school is not giving sound advice. I'm not saying you should since you have a decent major from a good UG and may have really good softs, but it is a risk management tool that greatly increases your chances. Striking out of the top 17 schools is a very real possibility with a sub 3.3 GPA. Go to the splitter thread and see how things are going for lots of folks. You are basically weighing the risk of striking out vs. the risk of being locked into a school. Now if you know you would not like UVA, NU or wherever, then of course you shouldn't ED there.

The beauty of the UVA ED is that you can be strategic with it. You can ED somewhere else you really want to go, or just send apps out early and hope you hear back in a reasonably time, and if those strike out, you can send in a mid/late cycle ED to UVA, and with that LSAT they may still jump on it. No real reason to ED at UVA too early in the cycle unless its your top choice, assuming they have the same set up next year that they did this.


This will be true if you know they are going to have an extended ED deadline again next cycle. That truly came out of nowhere. The previous wisdom regarding a strategic ED was that you could do UVA very early in the cycle and since you got such a quick turnaround on a decision, you could still ED somewhere else if you were rejected or waitlisted.

User avatar
Richie Tenenbaum
Posts: 2162
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 6:17 am

Re: Is This A Good List?

Postby Richie Tenenbaum » Fri Feb 26, 2010 2:53 pm

Stringer Bell wrote:Just a couple of notes.

Texas is not at all splitter friendly. I researched this pretty extensively since I am a Texas resident. On LSN, two years ago they took a 3.1, 179, Texas resident with good WE. That was the only non-urm splitter I could find that got accepted in the last few years. 3.4 seems to be their floor.

Anyone who says a splitter shouldn't ED unless it is to their dream school is not giving sound advice. I'm not saying you should since you have a decent major from a good UG and may have really good softs, but it is a risk management tool that greatly increases your chances. Striking out of the top 17 schools is a very real possibility with a sub 3.3 GPA. Go to the splitter thread and see how things are going for lots of folks. You are basically weighing the risk of striking out vs. the risk of being locked into a school. Now if you know you would not like UVA, NU or wherever, then of course you shouldn't ED there.

Duke is not at all splitter friendly.

The Math major helps a little, the Math GPA really doesn't since it's still not that high.


Texas has accepted a few big splitters the last few years, though it's only a very small number each year:
http://www.hourumd.com/?school=Universi ... cycle=sort

I didn't mean to imply they are splitter friendly in general, but when compared to UCLA and Vanderbilt, they have at least admitted a few GPA's under 3.2. But yeah, maybe a school to leave off the list unless OP really wants to work in Texas.

Bauer24 wrote: Also should I add Duke?
However, there are two problems.
1.) It's where I'm currently attending college and I think I want to attend somewhere different for law school.
2.) Given its rank and prestige, Duke Law has a very low median LSAT but a very high median GPA... I think my kind of applicant isn't favored.


Duke seems to hate splitters. If it is a school you really want to attend, which does not seem the case, then go ahead and apply. Just be prepared to be WL'd.

http://www.hourumd.com/?school=Duke%20U ... cycle=sort

User avatar
Shlonster
Posts: 155
Joined: Sun Oct 11, 2009 5:04 pm

Re: Is This A Good List?

Postby Shlonster » Mon Mar 01, 2010 3:40 am

As far as lists go, I would say it's pretty standard. Not very artsy, just efficient and neat -- although I do prefer the line breaks for organization. It drives me crazy when everything is put on one line!

TL;DR

THIS
IS
A
BETTER
LIST

than, a, list, that, looks, like, this

hth!

User avatar
Bauer24
Posts: 53
Joined: Thu May 01, 2008 2:53 am

Re: Is This A Good List?

Postby Bauer24 » Tue Mar 02, 2010 11:23 am

What about applying ED to Columbia?
Also if I apply EA to Cornell, do my chances of getting in right away go up? I've heard that Cornell will waitlist splitters and then admit them later on by gauging the applicant's interest.

Assuming I don't do early anywhere..
I think I'd be apply to the following places..

Columbia
NYU
Chicago
Penn
Michigan
Duke (this is where I'm currently at- and I've done some activities at this law school: moot court/mock trial)
Northwestern (if working as a real estate agent over the summer counts.. along with (most likely) taking a job as a software trainer)
UVA
Cornell
Georgetown
UCLA
UT-Austin
USC
Wash U
George Washington
Minnesota
Illinois

User avatar
Bauer24
Posts: 53
Joined: Thu May 01, 2008 2:53 am

Re: Is This A Good List?

Postby Bauer24 » Fri Mar 05, 2010 1:29 am

Thanks for all of your help!
I'm not really itching to work in Cali.. so UCLA/USC are probably not worth it.

User avatar
Richie Tenenbaum
Posts: 2162
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 6:17 am

Re: Is This A Good List?

Postby Richie Tenenbaum » Fri Mar 05, 2010 1:41 am

Bauer24 wrote:Thanks for all of your help!
I'm not really itching to work in Cali.. so UCLA/USC are probably not worth it.


List looks good. 1 year of WE is much better than 0 when applying to NU. With the WE NU is prob the most splitter friendly of the T14.




Return to “Law School Admissions Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest