Borderline - will 1 Year at the local T3 help or hurt?

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AngelAuthor
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Borderline - will 1 Year at the local T3 help or hurt?

Postby AngelAuthor » Sun Feb 21, 2010 3:52 pm

I live in Arizona, am graduating from ASU, and have applied to ASU law school. A few weeks ago (literally at night on a Sunday - the deadline for early admissions responses) I got an e-mail telling me that they're holding my application over for review with the regular applications. On the one hand they tell me to be proud I wasn't outright denied as more than 1,000 other early applicants were, on the other, I'm now on pins and needles for weeks.

I'm an older student (38) with a wife and kids and even though I applied to other schools out of state, here is where we really want to stay. There's a tier 3 private school here in Phoenix (Phoenix College of Law), that is dying to have me, but I dunno about that. A friend of mine suggested that I should apply, and if ASU turns me down, go there for my L1 then try to transfer into ASU for the rest of my schooling.

What do the more knowledgeable heads here think about that?

1. Does going to a T3 for a year help or hurt my chances of getting into ASU (or none of the above)?
2. Does going to a T3 for a year have any kind of impact on my future job offers (i.e. will employers need to know, or care that I spent a year at the Phoenix College of Law?)

I've already registered to retake the June LSAT to try to get a better score for next year if ASU should turn me down.

One final question: my friend also suggested that I contact the Admissions office at ASU and make an appointment to speak with someone there about this. I don't know the ramifications of trying to get personal with the people in Admissions while they're deciding my case. Good or Bad? Go for it or Stay away?

Thanks for the advice! :mrgreen:

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Mr. Matlock
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Re: Borderline - will 1 Year at the local T3 help or hurt?

Postby Mr. Matlock » Sun Feb 21, 2010 4:00 pm

1
Last edited by Mr. Matlock on Sun Feb 28, 2010 10:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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OperaSoprano
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Re: Borderline - will 1 Year at the local T3 help or hurt?

Postby OperaSoprano » Sun Feb 21, 2010 4:04 pm

Mr. Matlock wrote:It is pretty much universally believed here, with GOOD reason, that you should NEVER go to a school you wouldn't be happy with graduating at. Everyone who attends has the attitude that they will graduate at or near the top of their class. And to transfer, you generally need to be in the top 5-20% to have a reasonable chance of transferring upward.

In other words, it can't help and very well could end up hurting. I suggest you wait it out. If you miss out, study and retake the LSAT to try again next cycle.

Good luck.


All of this. Law school performance is insanely hard to predict, and I've seen people in the top 10-15% at T3 schools get shut out of transferring. This probably feels even worse, since these students worked hard and were very, very close. The bottom line: don't do it. If you find yourself unexpectedly upwardly mobile, that's awesome, but this is just not something you can count on at all.

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vanwinkle
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Re: Borderline - will 1 Year at the local T3 help or hurt?

Postby vanwinkle » Sun Feb 21, 2010 4:08 pm

Seconding everything already said above. Yes, 1 year at the local T3 will potentially hurt very much; when considering transfer applications, all they look at is transfer grades, and unless you clearly make top 5% of your class you're not likely to be allowed to transfer in. For T3 schools even top 5% may not be good enough.

If your numbers aren't good enough for ASU now, study hard and retake the LSAT in June. That'll help you get in much, much more easily than trying to go to a lesser school and transfer up.

AngelAuthor
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Re: Borderline - will 1 Year at the local T3 help or hurt?

Postby AngelAuthor » Sun Feb 21, 2010 4:23 pm

Thanks for the responses. Phoenix College of Law is out of the picture then. Guess I'll start boning up for the June LSAT.

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Mr. Matlock
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Re: Borderline - will 1 Year at the local T3 help or hurt?

Postby Mr. Matlock » Sun Feb 21, 2010 4:26 pm

1
Last edited by Mr. Matlock on Sun Feb 28, 2010 10:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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BruceBarr
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Re: Borderline - will 1 Year at the local T3 help or hurt?

Postby BruceBarr » Sun Feb 21, 2010 4:34 pm

Also keep this in mind: Phoenix Law is a brand new school (compared to others). It was formed in 200000005??? I believe it was 2005. In any case, some Tier 3's like (in my area) Wayne State and Michigan State do well for themselves... but that's because they've had thousands of lawyers over the last 100 years show that they are capable.

A new T3 school can be risky. I'm not sure how fast firms are to hire out of that school yet, but I'm just talking out of my butt right now. Just food for thought.

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RVP11
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Re: Borderline - will 1 Year at the local T3 help or hurt?

Postby RVP11 » Sun Feb 21, 2010 4:41 pm

How is Phoenix Law even a Tier 3? I didn't think it was accredited, yet, and I thought USNWR only ranked accredited law schools. And I don't think Phoenix Law would be a T3 even if it were accredited.

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Veyron
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Re: Borderline - will 1 Year at the local T3 help or hurt?

Postby Veyron » Sun Feb 21, 2010 4:51 pm

Yes, from what I understand PCOL is more for people who already have lots of ties to the legal industry and just need a J.D. to get to the next stage of their careers. I can't imagine that you would benefit from going there unless you fall into this category. FWIW, every year a fair amount of the top of the class does transfer to ASU.

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darknightbegins
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Re: Borderline - will 1 Year at the local T3 help or hurt?

Postby darknightbegins » Sun Feb 21, 2010 5:30 pm

AngelAuthor wrote:I live in Arizona, am graduating from ASU, and have applied to ASU law school. A few weeks ago (literally at night on a Sunday - the deadline for early admissions responses) I got an e-mail telling me that they're holding my application over for review with the regular applications. On the one hand they tell me to be proud I wasn't outright denied as more than 1,000 other early applicants were, on the other, I'm now on pins and needles for weeks.

I'm an older student (38) with a wife and kids and even though I applied to other schools out of state, here is where we really want to stay. There's a tier 3 private school here in Phoenix (Phoenix College of Law), that is dying to have me, but I dunno about that. A friend of mine suggested that I should apply, and if ASU turns me down, go there for my L1 then try to transfer into ASU for the rest of my schooling.

What do the more knowledgeable heads here think about that?

1. Does going to a T3 for a year help or hurt my chances of getting into ASU (or none of the above)?
2. Does going to a T3 for a year have any kind of impact on my future job offers (i.e. will employers need to know, or care that I spent a year at the Phoenix College of Law?)

I've already registered to retake the June LSAT to try to get a better score for next year if ASU should turn me down.

One final question: my friend also suggested that I contact the Admissions office at ASU and make an appointment to speak with someone there about this. I don't know the ramifications of trying to get personal with the people in Admissions while they're deciding my case. Good or Bad? Go for it or Stay away?

Thanks for the advice! :mrgreen:


I applied to ASU and on hold. Guess I should be thankful I wasn't one of those 1,000 that got the boot. That Phoenix College of Law was also after me, even offered me a full ride and after I neglected to return their emails I got ANOTHER email by some lady asking if I got the one about the scholarship. I finally had to make it clear I wasn't interested.

Bottom line, I wouldn't go to an Arizona school not named ASU or UofAz. Even if I went to Phoenix for free it still would not be worth it. Sit out a year. Even if you only perform a bit better on the LSAT another year could help as this year, from what I've read, has been one of the most competitive years on record.

BruinsFan
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Re: Borderline - will 1 Year at the local T3 help or hurt?

Postby BruinsFan » Sun Feb 21, 2010 5:46 pm

I don't know how similar this is, but when I met with a 3L at USD he said that he didn't know of a single transfer they took from Cal Western. He also said he had worked in the admissions office and that they didn't want Cal Western to be a back door into USD.

This is just one perspective, but thought it was worth throwing out there.

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Matthies
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Re: Borderline - will 1 Year at the local T3 help or hurt?

Postby Matthies » Sun Feb 21, 2010 5:53 pm

FYI I also applied to ASU back in the day as an ASU grad, but did not get accepted. A friend of mine also applying and on hold let the admission people know he would be willing to sit out a year, accept for the next year withdraw all his apps and paid his deposit for the following year because he could not move from Phoenix because of family issues. They took that offer, and he accepted for the next year. Plus to them was they knew a year out they already had one person for the next year class who was 100% a sure thing. Might be worth trying if you really only want to go to ASU.

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RVP11
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Re: Borderline - will 1 Year at the local T3 help or hurt?

Postby RVP11 » Sun Feb 21, 2010 6:01 pm

BruinsFan wrote:I don't know how similar this is, but when I met with a 3L at USD he said that he didn't know of a single transfer they took from Cal Western. He also said he had worked in the admissions office and that they didn't want Cal Western to be a back door into USD.

This is just one perspective, but thought it was worth throwing out there.


ASU took at least one transfer from Cal Western, and at least one from Phoenix Law, and I'd say ASU > USD.

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darknightbegins
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Re: Borderline - will 1 Year at the local T3 help or hurt?

Postby darknightbegins » Sun Feb 21, 2010 6:06 pm

Phoenix Law is the equivalent to OKC Law in my opinion. How many OKC Law students get to be Sooners?

emoticons777
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Re: Borderline - will 1 Year at the local T3 help or hurt?

Postby emoticons777 » Sun Feb 21, 2010 6:16 pm

JSUVA2012 wrote:
BruinsFan wrote:I don't know how similar this is, but when I met with a 3L at USD he said that he didn't know of a single transfer they took from Cal Western. He also said he had worked in the admissions office and that they didn't want Cal Western to be a back door into USD.

This is just one perspective, but thought it was worth throwing out there.


ASU took at least one transfer from Cal Western, and at least one from Phoenix Law, and I'd say ASU > USD.


I think the point was they are in the generally same area (Cal Western and USD)- rather than the rank of schools.

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OperaSoprano
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Re: Borderline - will 1 Year at the local T3 help or hurt?

Postby OperaSoprano » Sun Feb 21, 2010 6:19 pm

At least according to my own admissions office, schools want diversity in their transfer classes. This basically means that Fordham isn't going to accept, say, the entire top 10% at Hofstra, if all of them wanted to apply. Likewise, it's the same for us if we want to trade up; I'm sure Columbia has a cap on Fordham students. This is why it's sometimes easier to transfer up to a school not in your market; fewer of your classmates will also be applying.

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RVP11
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Re: Borderline - will 1 Year at the local T3 help or hurt?

Postby RVP11 » Sun Feb 21, 2010 6:31 pm

emoticons777 wrote:
JSUVA2012 wrote:
BruinsFan wrote:I don't know how similar this is, but when I met with a 3L at USD he said that he didn't know of a single transfer they took from Cal Western. He also said he had worked in the admissions office and that they didn't want Cal Western to be a back door into USD.

This is just one perspective, but thought it was worth throwing out there.


ASU took at least one transfer from Cal Western, and at least one from Phoenix Law, and I'd say ASU > USD.


I think the point was they are in the generally same area (Cal Western and USD)- rather than the rank of schools.


Not only do I doubt that USD didn't take a single transfer from Cal Western, I'm not sure how that bears on OP's would-be transfer of Phoenix Law to ASU.

AngelAuthor
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Re: Borderline - will 1 Year at the local T3 help or hurt?

Postby AngelAuthor » Sun Feb 21, 2010 7:05 pm

Matthies wrote:FYI I also applied to ASU back in the day as an ASU grad, but did not get accepted. A friend of mine also applying and on hold let the admission people know he would be willing to sit out a year, accept for the next year withdraw all his apps and paid his deposit for the following year because he could not move from Phoenix because of family issues. They took that offer, and he accepted for the next year. Plus to them was they knew a year out they already had one person for the next year class who was 100% a sure thing. Might be worth trying if you really only want to go to ASU.

This is indeed interesting. Did he actually contact the Dean of Admissions and make this proposal to her, or what?

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gwuorbust
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Re: Borderline - will 1 Year at the local T3 help or hurt?

Postby gwuorbust » Sun Feb 21, 2010 8:34 pm

AngelAuthor wrote:I live in Arizona, am graduating from ASU, and have applied to ASU law school. A few weeks ago (literally at night on a Sunday - the deadline for early admissions responses) I got an e-mail telling me that they're holding my application over for review with the regular applications. On the one hand they tell me to be proud I wasn't outright denied as more than 1,000 other early applicants were, on the other, I'm now on pins and needles for weeks.

I'm an older student (38) with a wife and kids and even though I applied to other schools out of state, here is where we really want to stay. There's a tier 3 private school here in Phoenix (Phoenix College of Law), that is dying to have me, but I dunno about that. A friend of mine suggested that I should apply, and if ASU turns me down, go there for my L1 then try to transfer into ASU for the rest of my schooling.

What do the more knowledgeable heads here think about that?

1. Does going to a T3 for a year help or hurt my chances of getting into ASU (or none of the above)?
2. Does going to a T3 for a year have any kind of impact on my future job offers (i.e. will employers need to know, or care that I spent a year at the Phoenix College of Law?)

I've already registered to retake the June LSAT to try to get a better score for next year if ASU should turn me down.

One final question: my friend also suggested that I contact the Admissions office at ASU and make an appointment to speak with someone there about this. I don't know the ramifications of trying to get personal with the people in Admissions while they're deciding my case. Good or Bad? Go for it or Stay away?

Thanks for the advice! :mrgreen:


FWIW I would say try to get your LSAT up as much as possible, and if you really know you want to go to ASU, get an amazing scholarship. w/o knowing your GPA I can't say what LSAT you would prob need, but prob getting it up 3-5 points might allow you not only to get in but to also get some good $$$.




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